Is it possible for my buddy to get his ltc licence back

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Rick8325 said:
We're talking about how slaves were perceived back then. People or property.
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a. You should know the answer to the legal definition - they teach that, even in public school
b. Why on earth would it matter what the legal definition of a slave was in your decision making? It was wrong, it is wrong, it does not matter what the law says...

What you said now and what you said earlier show the same problem - that you allow the letter of the law dictate your ethics rather than setting any absolute limits on what is right and wrong. Even if the law itself is unjust.

For the same reason I am saying you condone MA gun laws, I am saying you are condoning slavery with your assignment of laws before rights.
 
Since my words are going to be twisted now, I think I may step back now because that is unjust...oh snap!

You people claim to be fighting for unjust and made-up laws, well nobody wants to drive 55mph and nobody wants to pay excise taxes or property taxes or give a third of their paychecks to the government but we all do it because of the consequences. So doesn't that make you a sheep too? You obey the law whether you agree with it or not or you pay the price. Please guys, get in line like you're told or move to your own island fantasy world.
 
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Rick8325 said:
Since my words are going to be twisted now, I think I may step back now because that is unjust...oh snap!

You people claim to be fighting for unjust and made-up laws, well nobody wants to drive 55mph and nobody wants to pay excise taxes or property taxes or give a third of their paychecks to the government but we all do it because of the consequences. So doesn't that make you a sheep too? You obey the law whether you agree with it or not or you pay the price. Please guys, get in line like you're told or move to your own island fantasy world.
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Sometimes, people opt not to follow unjust laws, and are ready to accept the consequences for doing so. I'm sure, if you knew enough people well enough here, you could find more than a few who are fed up with bullshit laws, and simply don't give a **** about following them anymore.
 
atmay said:
Sometimes, people opt not to follow unjust laws, and are ready to accept the consequences for doing so. I'm sure, if you knew enough people well enough here, you could find more than a few who are fed up with bullshit laws, and simply don't give a **** about following them anymore.
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The issue is not whether or not you "resist them," it is a matter of whether you encourage the enforcement of them on other people. At the very least you should not be doing that. At the very most you should be working to change those laws.

I don't care if you lock up your guns. I do. I don't like having things stolen. That doesn't mean I am going to cheer as Rick did when someone has their property and rights seized because they did not.

Your words Rick:
Rick said:
Either way hopefully no chance. Seems like your friend is not responsible enough to own a firearm.
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There is also jury nullification where unjust last can be made to go away because people don't just blindly think "well they broke the law and the law is the law so we must follow it" I pray to god you are never on a jury trial.
 
Boghog1 said:
There is also jury nullification where unjust last can be made to go away because people don't just blindly think "well they broke the law and the law is the law so we must follow it" I pray to god you are never on a jury trial.
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Reps to you. The jury box is the third of the four boxes of freedom from an oppressive government and unjust laws. Judges love to tell jurors that their job is to determine if the accused is factually guilty of violating a law. Eff that! If the law is unjust then jurors have a moral obligation to negate the law.

There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.
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When people give up the power of that third box, there's only one box left, and it's the most costly one.
 
Rick8325 said:
To be honest I'm a little more upset that our state would give back a driver's license to a drunk driver than the op's friend's case. One can be an honest mistake and the other well, poor judgement. Yeah driving is a privilege and not a right but still the law is still the law (unattended gun) and I'll abide by it until it changes. If I'm wrong in your eyes, whatever. I'll still going to get my 8 hours tonight whatever anyone thinks of my beliefs.
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One of the biggest issues is the complete nonsensical way that many CLEOS operate when it comes to a LTC. Your 2nd amendment rights vary greatly based on which city or town you live in.

I personally know two people that have had issues with their LTC. One was suspended and the other was revoked. IMO the chief made the right call at the time given the reasons. the same CLEO also restored both LTC's (unrestricted) when the LTC holders had resolved their issues to the Chief's satisfaction and he was very reasonable.

I don't believe that a momentary lapse should relieve someone of their 2A rights for the rest of their life though that is what happens in this state. It seems,to me, that many (certainly not all) CLEOS are just looking for ANY reason to relieve a citizen of their 2A rights and that is wrong.

Bob
 
Rick8325 said:
I am agreeing with the decision that was made for breaking the law of a state I live in. NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW.
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For many years, it was legal for people to own slaves and illegal to help them escape. That doesn't make it morally right. You seem unable or unwilling to distinguish between laws and ethics.

ETA:

You don't have to wrap your head around anything because nothing I said made me sound like I condone slavery. We're talking about how slaves were perceived back then. People or property.
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Wow. Just wow.
 
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KMS said:
Thread of the Week.
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It is.

I hope some of the closet anti civil rights folks that have posted here start to think about what a right is, and why our founders thought it important to have the soverign states delegate protection of those rights to the federal govt.

How they knew that every excuse to restrict these rights would be tried, and we needed solid limits on the government to be able to take these from us.

If there were no governments, we would all still have the right to keep and bear arms. It is our job everyday to cure the ignorance, and tirelessly protect all of our rights, even those of people that we don't know, understand, or agree with.

Sent from my mobile device, please excuse typos and brevity.
 
Rick8325 said:
Question for you then. Would you (personally you), leave your unlocked, loaded handgun on your front seat of your car in plain sight? Yes or no and why so or why not?
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No, but only because I don't like my stuff getting stolen, and secondarily, don't like to expose to myself to unnecessary legal risks in MA.

That doesn't mean that I agree with the law, or think that we should be putting people in prison for doing it. (or taking rights away, for that matter!) I won't think "less" of someone for doing it, either, nor would I rat someone out or throw someone under the bus for it.

This is a firearms and shooting forum, this is what is talked about. Nobody said anything about treating guns as being "special".
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You more or less have ascribed special properties to guns based upon your responses in this thread. Let's face it- if there was a law regulating hammer storage, you probably wouldn't be saying the same things if someone got arrested for leaving a hammer in their car.

There are gun owner advocates for a reason because some of society unfortunately sees guns as being evil and whatnot.
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Yes, some, not all, not even a majority. You keep perpetuating and extending the problem of "guns are evil" by rejoicing when someone gets hammered on a malum prohibitum paper-type gun crime.

Further, the main reason we have advocacy is not so much for combatting "guns are evil" but rather because, in raw terms, most people don't know about the massive amount of BS being waged by the government against their rights. Advocacy is as much about providing information to people who don't know anything as it is about combatting stereotypes or whatever.

As for the stand your ground law in FL and the 100's of lives saved because of it that is great. I'm all for it. I used it as an example that one case can change an entire law.
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It's not even proven that the law will change, and honestly, I doubt it. SYG might not even apply in this particular case, not to mention the fact, that in FL, guns are viewed differently on a cultural level then they are in a dump like MA.

-Mike
 
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In the 1940's, in Germany, there were laws about Jewish people. Most people chose to abide by those laws. Some did not, and a few truly remarkable people of principle chose to disregard those laws at great risk to themselves.

Those that chose to abide by the anti Semitic laws also justified their actions by telling themselves that they were just following the law. Much the same as the Germans at Nuremberg who were just following orders
 
I've had a LTC for 35 years, and in all those years I have been trying to figure out exactly what UNSUITABLE really meant. Well I finally got my answer today. Your friend is clearly UNSUITABLE to own or carry a firearm. And it doesn't matter what state you live in, that's beside the point. And we wonder why some people think the average person shouldn't own a gun. As far as getting his LTC back all I can say about that is I hope not.
 
firecontrol123 said:
I've had a LTC for 35 years, and in all those years I have been trying to figure out exactly what UNSUITABLE really meant. Well I finally got my answer today. Your friend is clearly UNSUITABLE to own or carry a firearm. And it doesn't matter what state you live in, that's beside the point. And we wonder why some people think the average person shouldn't own a gun. As far as getting his LTC back all I can say about that is I hope not.
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dude.

i can see you want to start off where rick left off since he appears to have abandoned the thread.

tell me you're just trolling... otherwise tell me all about slaves, nazis, and how you'd violate the rights of others because of your feelings.
 
firecontrol123 said:
I've had a LTC for 35 years, and in all those years I have been trying to figure out exactly what UNSUITABLE really meant. Well I finally got my answer today. Your friend is clearly UNSUITABLE to own or carry a firearm. And it doesn't matter what state you live in, that's beside the point. And we wonder why some people think the average person shouldn't own a gun. As far as getting his LTC back all I can say about that is I hope not.
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So..... If you leave a loaded gun in your house on the kitchen table in view of the sliding glass window... Right to carry gone for life? WTF?!


Wow... Just wow...

And how did the holocaust get brought into this?
 
firecontrol123 said:
I've had a LTC for 35 years, and in all those years I have been trying to figure out exactly what UNSUITABLE really meant. Well I finally got my answer today. Your friend is clearly UNSUITABLE to own or carry a firearm. And it doesn't matter what state you live in, that's beside the point. And we wonder why some people think the average person shouldn't own a gun. As far as getting his LTC back all I can say about that is I hope not.
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The "some people" you refer to is yourself.
 
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