James Kim and Wilderness Survival

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I've been following the story of James Kim. http://news.ask.com/news?q="James+Kim"&qsrc=8 for more background if you haven't heard about it in the news.

Not so much for the human interest, but for the "what would I have done" in the same situation.

Someone put together the most likely path he took after he left the car to find help. http://www.layoutscene.com/james-kim-path/index.html

How could he have been better prepared?

What would you have done differently? Other than not take a Saab on logging roads in the winter.

My own "survival training" hasn't really been formal, other than Boy Scouts, Outward Bound, and years of hunting in western forests. I'd like to think I'd do better.
 
bad luck is all. Had he gone the other way he would have wound up at the Black Bar Lodge. It's a shame with two kids and all and this being Christmas. Bad way to end Thanksgiving.
 
He would have been better off staying with the car, I think that was his first and worst mistake. God rest his soul and God bless his family as they come to terms with his passing. He did a brave thing but it cost him his life. May he rest in peace.
 
You'd do better???

So easy to say you'd do better from the comfort of your keyboard. Cub scouts and hunting trips aside the man had been without food for seven to nine days and gave his life trying to save his family. Had he been alone he may have hiked out on the first or second day - he wouldn't leave his family. He never gave up. He has my absolute respect. Do you really think this is a good opportunity to proclaim yourself the better man?
 
The guy died to save his family that HE put in the situation to begin with!
Yep there was a hero. too bad he died and at least the rest of his family survived. I refuse to call him a hero.
 
I think he made a number of mistakes, Glenn. He was a human being, same as the rest of us. When his family's lives were on the line, he risked his own to save them. I think that brings some meaning to his death. RIP James Kim.
 
Do you really think this is a good opportunity to proclaim yourself the better man?

Please, read what I said. "I'd like to think I'd do better" has a LOT of doubt in that statement. I wasn't trying to upstage Mr. Kim in anyway. I'm trying to make this a learning experience, not an ego booster.

Let me rephrase the question. I drive through remote areas all winter long. How can I better prepare myself for getting stuck in a remote area? What if my family was with me?

I'll start. I carry a survival pack in my car at all times. It has enough food and water for 2 people for 3 days. It also has a knife, fishing line, hooks, and space blankets. Soon, it'll have a pistol and ammo.

Have I been lost in the woods? Yes.
Have I been without food for a week in the woods? Yes.
Have I been DAMNED lucky to have a fellow hunter stumble by me when I was lost? Yes.
Have I had Giardia while camping, been unprepared for illness, and spent 2 weeks in the hospital recovering? Yes.

Should I be dead and buried decades ago from the brazenness of youth against mother nature? Yes.

Did I know this thread was potentially controversial when I posted it? Yes.
 
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I think he made a number of mistakes, Glenn. He was a human being, same as the rest of us. When his family's lives were on the line, he risked his own to save them. I think that brings some meaning to his death. RIP James Kim.

I don't like to speak ill of the dead....well, unless they were really stupid. But I don't think this guy was. I agree with you JellyFish. He waited as long as he could and then he did what he thought he needed to do. He did die trying to save his family and in giving his life as such I think he could be given the honor of hero. I know his children will grow up believing so and realistically, those are the only opinions that matter.

But hopefully there is a lesson in this for all of us. It's sad when children lose their father.
 
Please, read what I said. "I'd like to think I'd do better" has a LOT of doubt in that statement. I wasn't trying to upstage Mr. Kim in anyway. I'm trying to make this a learning experience, not an ego booster.

Let me rephrase the question. I drive through remote areas all winter long. How can I better prepare myself for getting stuck in a remote area? What if my family was with me?

I'll start. I carry a survival pack in my car at all times. It has enough food and water for 2 people for 3 days. It also has a knife, fishing line, hooks, and space blankets. Soon, it'll have a pistol and ammo.

Have I been lost in the woods? Yes.
Have I been without food for a week in the woods? Yes.
Have I been DAMNED lucky to have a fellow hunter stumble by me when I was lost? Yes.
Have I had Giardia while camping, been unprepared for illness, and spent 2 weeks in the hospital recovering? Yes.

Should I be dead and buried decades ago from the brazenness of youth against mother nature? Yes.

Did I know this thread was potentially controversial when I posted it? Yes.


I understood what you meant. I didn't feel you were trying to one up Mr. Kim.

Try a compass and a map of the area you are planning to be in. Those could help. GPS is nice but the batteries die over time. They do have a crank charger for cell phones and flashlights. I wonder if it would work on a GPS unitl. Signal flares are always nice. Locator beacon like an epirb for a boat. Flip the switch and wait.....they come to you.

It the locator beacon would have been nice in Kim's situation where as he was so far out. Maybe sterno......provides some heat and if you catch a fish you don't need to have it sushi style...
 
Locator beacon like an epirb for a boat.

Which also take batteries which can run down. Plan on having enough juice to last 2-3 days. More if you think you'll be under canopy. A search will not start until at least 2 sat passes pick up the signal. Then phone calls start if the ER beacon is registered -- we usually look for airplanes not people so I don't know how it works for personal devices. They will try to have local emergency personal drive to or at least near the area (sat triangulation can only guess the area). Then, once it's daylight or any bad weather has passed, we'll can get in the air and start flying grids over the area.

My first rule, be visible. When I fly I carry, a cell phone, a couple of junk cd's as flashers (mirrors break), and a survival pack with the usual but I wrap it in an orange tarp. Also, remember the three's: 3 fires, or 3 black marks on white snow, or 3 piles of brush on a snow or a riverbank, anything in the shape of the triangle and we'll look real hard in that area.

Some things Kim could have done (mind, I don't know if he did anything of these things, they've not been reported yet, I'm just giving examples): rip up the seat upholstery to make blankets, gather 3 brush piles on the road (if it isn't under canopy), if he wasn't out of gas put some on the brush in case any airplane flies over (if an airline pilot 5 miles up sees 3 fires in a row s/he will get the word out) and it is possible to see large campfires in the middle of darkness from that altitude, if out of gas engine oil will help as will stuffing from the seats as kindling and smoke in the daylight, keep some battery power for the lighter if no matches (even if, because of the wind), if anyone is wearing a bright unnatural colored shirt/sweater -- if they can go with out it -- should put that out as a flag as well. ANYTHING to make yourself visible from a mile away. And stay with the airplane/car (if possible, I know in this case 9 days is getting to anyone's limit) -- its a lot more visible then one guy walking.

Your friendly, hopefully never used, SAR pilot.
 
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Also, remember the three's: 3 fires, or 3 black marks on white snow, or 3 piles of brush on a snow or a riverbank, anything in the shape of the triangle and we'll look real hard in that area.

Some things Kim could have done (mind, I don't know if he did anything of these things, they've not been reported yet, I'm just giving examples): rip up the seat upholstery to make blankets, gather 3 brush piles on the road (if it isn't under canopy), if he wasn't out of gas put some on the brush in case any airplane flies over (if an airline pilot 5 miles up sees 3 fires in a row s/he will get the word out) and it is possible to see large campfires in the middle of darkness from that altitude, if out of gas engine oil will help as will stuffing from the seats as kindling and smoke in the daylight, keep some battery power for the lighter if no matches (even if, because of the wind), if anyone is wearing a bright unnatural colored shirt/sweater -- if they can go with out it -- should put that out as a flag as well. ANYTHING to make yourself visible from a mile away. And stay with the airplane/car (if possible, I know in this case 9 days is getting to anyone's limit) -- its a lot more visible then one guy walking.

Your friendly, hopefully never used, SAR pilot.

Excellent suggestions!!!!! The three fires at night can be seen a long way off and now given the altitude you've increased your chances exponentially of being found by a potential passing commercial liner.

I won't forget that one.
 
Excellent suggestions, Chuck--thanks.

Those terrain maps were a real eye opener. Look at all those little roads and trails. Without a map, you'd be complete screwed in there.

It must have been very tough watching his family suffer. I think he also had to be worrying about getting another snow storm/colder weather. Given that, I think any father/husband would feel extremely compelled to set off for help.

Kim traveled a pretty amazing distance. I think he was likely hypothermic when he decided to leave the road and started shedding clothing.

A very sad turn of events.
 
When they found the car & family it was reported that the helicopter pilot tracked him backwards to his car via his footprints. His death saved his family.

He surely didn't plan it that way , but I imagine he's satisfied with the results if he can see them from wherever he is now.

That said , he walked in a circle. More land nav skills and a compass would have been good.
 
I seen some suggestions that his map may have been in error. Apparently
the road system he was on is clearly marked as closed for the winter on the
state's maps, but not on the maps of some of the major publishers. Do
I smell a (possibly justified) lawsuit?

F
 
A lot of interesting info has come out since this stopped being a front page story. Basically, Kim accidently left his intended road when he went right at a Y in the road. The road he mistakenly turned onto was supposed to have a locked gate, but vandals cut the lock and left the gate open. All this took place in a blinding snowstorm (Kim's wife said he sometimes had to stick his head out the window to see). They travelled on this road for quite a while (20 miles?) until they saw a sign that said the road was not maintained for winter travel. At that point, they tried to turn around and got stuck. It took them a long time and a bunch of gas to get the car unstuck. Since they were low on gas, Kim decided to stop the car in a clearing where they could be seen from above.

It has been determined that the reported location of the car was incorrect. It was actually 6 miles further up the logging road. This meant walked over 16 miles seeking help. (When he left the car, he thought he was about 4 miles from the highway.) It also meant the car was nowhere near the Black Bar lodge, nor was the car close to where Kim was found (he was about 7 miles away).

It turned out the car was not found by members of the organized search group. Instead, he was found by a helicopter pilot who decided to fly up into that region and look around for the car. He was the one who spotted Kim's footprints in the snow and followed them back to the car.

The owner of a lodge on the road where the Kims' car was stuck had told authorities three days before Kati Kim and her daughters were found that he had seen tire tracks in the snow, but he hadn't been able to follow them in his snowmobile once he hit bare ground. No one followed up.

Apparently, family members played a big role in helping with the search, determining the Kim's direction of travel, and hiring SAR assets.

The Kim's were very smart about surviving when they were stuck. For example, they stockpiled wood for fires and stored it under the car so that it would stay dry in stormy weather.

Excellent coverage of the tragedy by the SF Chronicle: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/12/10/MNGVOMT3NJ1.DTL
 
I used to be pretty brave (foolhardy?) in my road travels through the Washington Cascades to get to back country skiing spots back in the early 90s.

Back then I had no kids to worry about, and my wife doesn't ski so she wasn't with me on those trips.

I'm not so brave any more.
 
I used to be pretty brave (foolhardy?) in my road travels through the Washington Cascades to get to back country skiing spots back in the early 90s.

Back then I had no kids to worry about, and my wife doesn't ski so she wasn't with me on those trips.

I'm not so brave any more.

I know what you mean. I used to do backcountry skiing near Revelstoke BC every year. Then my son came along and I started to see the risks differently. I haven't been back there in years.
 
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