Garys
NES Member
A friend of mine is looking at one of these and asked my opinion. I know just about nothing about Kahr, so I'd like some opinions on the gun and price range for a used one.
Thanks.
Thanks.
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Kahr P9
- Thread starter Garys
- Start date
I have several Kahrs (K9, K40, MK9, and PM9). The P9 is a polymer version of the K9. The grip is big enough to fit all your fingers and the sight radius is decent. It is far, far slimmer than a Glock 19, so it is much easier to conceal. Downside, of course, is lower capacity. The trigger feel is like a very good revolver -- long and smooth. But the longer reset makes it significantly slower to get follow up shots than a Glock 19.
Kahr has had some issues with the quality of their moldings. The dustshield of my PM9 is distinctly wavy. It seems to function fine, but it doesn't look great. Tell him to field strip the P9 and look carefully at the frame.
The PM9 doesn't have forward steel rail inserts, just plastic nubs that fit into the slide. They seem to work fine, but I do wonder how they will last over time.
The Kahr is a narrow single stack, so it works well for small to medium sized hands. If your friend has big mitts then the P9 might feel too small for him. I can't comment on price as I haven't priced one.
Kahr has had some issues with the quality of their moldings. The dustshield of my PM9 is distinctly wavy. It seems to function fine, but it doesn't look great. Tell him to field strip the P9 and look carefully at the frame.
The PM9 doesn't have forward steel rail inserts, just plastic nubs that fit into the slide. They seem to work fine, but I do wonder how they will last over time.
The Kahr is a narrow single stack, so it works well for small to medium sized hands. If your friend has big mitts then the P9 might feel too small for him. I can't comment on price as I haven't priced one.
I own one of these. I bought it new last June. At the time I paid around $750. I saw a used one at the Gun Parlor in Worcester for $650 (I think).
The pistol is really well made. You can just tell that the thing is on another level than an M&P Shield for example. At the time I shot them both. The shield was OK but you could tell just a cheaper gun. Not as well made is what I am trying to say. The P9 shoots well. Accurate and reliable. I like the size. Not too big and not too small. It came with 3 7 round magazines. Afterward I found that they also sell 8 round magazines and bought on of those as well. It is what I carry when I carry. I got an Alien IWB holster for it and it is perfect.
Drawbacks to the P9 I found:
1. It required a 200 - 300 round break in period. I had some feed issues before that was complete. Around 1 in 50 if I remember. However, I have had not issues since.
2. The return spring is ridiculously heavy and under a lot of tension for such a small gun. I have some minor trouble with it every time I field strip it.
3. The barrel has polygonal rifling. They do not recommend you shoot lead bullets. With that said though I reload (a lot) and I have shot at least 500 lead rounds thru it and have seen no issues with leading or otherwise. Just mention this in full disclosure to help you.
Hope that is helpful. I do not see many reviews about the gun and I looked everywhere.
The pistol is really well made. You can just tell that the thing is on another level than an M&P Shield for example. At the time I shot them both. The shield was OK but you could tell just a cheaper gun. Not as well made is what I am trying to say. The P9 shoots well. Accurate and reliable. I like the size. Not too big and not too small. It came with 3 7 round magazines. Afterward I found that they also sell 8 round magazines and bought on of those as well. It is what I carry when I carry. I got an Alien IWB holster for it and it is perfect.
Drawbacks to the P9 I found:
1. It required a 200 - 300 round break in period. I had some feed issues before that was complete. Around 1 in 50 if I remember. However, I have had not issues since.
2. The return spring is ridiculously heavy and under a lot of tension for such a small gun. I have some minor trouble with it every time I field strip it.
3. The barrel has polygonal rifling. They do not recommend you shoot lead bullets. With that said though I reload (a lot) and I have shot at least 500 lead rounds thru it and have seen no issues with leading or otherwise. Just mention this in full disclosure to help you.
Hope that is helpful. I do not see many reviews about the gun and I looked everywhere.
richc
NES Member
Great gun. I carry it in my front pocket from time to time, something I can't do with my Glocks. And I easily hit 6" plates at 55' with the sights. Solid build quality. I've had no feed issues.
Great small CCW handgun.
Great small CCW handgun.
Garys
NES Member
Both posts have helped a lot. My only impression of them was that they seemed high priced for what they are. I'm still don't know if that's so or not. He's looked at a Shield and liked it, but that doesn't include shooting it. He hasn't shot this one either, for that matter. I think it has night sights and comes with three magazines. I'll have him ask how many rounds it has through it and how old it might be.
He's probably not going to like the heavy recoil spring. That's the thing he didn't like about the Shield.
I see that FS has some used Kahrs for sail, but I need to see what variations they are.
The price that is being asked seems reasonable based on what you are saying.
He's probably not going to like the heavy recoil spring. That's the thing he didn't like about the Shield.
I see that FS has some used Kahrs for sail, but I need to see what variations they are.
The price that is being asked seems reasonable based on what you are saying.
The K9/P9 are too big for my pockets. That's what I use my PM9 for.
Varmint
NES Member
i picked up a used P9 at North Shore Firearms (don't laugh), and there seemed to be a different height gap between the frame and slide, fore to aft, the gap would close if i pressed down on the slide. It seemed very shoddy- the salesman said the other used P9 did the same thing, but i didn't handle it to confirm.
Is this normal?
Is this normal?
This statement is kinda misleading... Yes, on the top of the frame there is only one set of steel rail inserts at the rear... But, that's because the actual forward steel rails are in the recoil spring area in the lower, forward portion of the frame. There is actually a substantial about more of steel on steel contact on the PM9 than in most full size polymer pistols.
dcmdon
NES Member
Exactly. I've owned a K9, K9 Elite, K9 Wilson Combat, P9, P9 Covert, PM9, and then back to a P9
I thought I would want the PM9 for pocket carry. In the end, I ended up always carrying it IWB because it was too heavy for me to carry in my dress pants pockets at work.
So since I was carrying IWB, there was no point in the PM9, so I sold it and went back to a P9, which gets me a better grip, 1 more round and a slightly longer barrel/slide.
Kahrs are great guns. The CW9 is nearly identical to the P9 for a bit more than half the price. Has your friend considered that?
Overall, I have enjoyed owning and shooting all of them. The P series guns are great carry guns. The K9 Elite and Wilson were really really great shooting guns.
Don
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And its all pointless. Ruger has been using all polymer rails for over a decade. When was the last time you heard about a Ruger P series gun wearing out?
The "Point" was that the PM9 does indeed actually have steel forward rails
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
EDIT: As far a being pointless, I can't speak to that one way or the other. I know when many people look at the frame of a PM9 they comment on the fact that the plastic rails usually appear worn even on a new gun right from the factory. I don't think that having the extra steel hurts, and I do feel with the 5000 rounds through my PM9 that is is a pretty accurate "micro" pistol
I have not seen a Ruger P series wear out... I have seen a few dozen P series tanks that nobody wants sitting in gun shops for $275 that haven't seen more than a few boxes of ammo put through them
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
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Garys
NES Member
Thank you.
one other big difference is the LOP and barrel length.
i dig the P9 cuz it has 3.6" barrel and it's still damn short overall. however the distance from trigger break to back of backstrap (something like LOP) is shorter on the kahr. for me it's not a big deal but it does take a little getting used to if you've got big hands. the shield however breaks at a more natural point for me. i actually love both guns so i'm not knocking the shield in any way.
i dig the P9 cuz it has 3.6" barrel and it's still damn short overall. however the distance from trigger break to back of backstrap (something like LOP) is shorter on the kahr. for me it's not a big deal but it does take a little getting used to if you've got big hands. the shield however breaks at a more natural point for me. i actually love both guns so i'm not knocking the shield in any way.
dcmdon
NES Member
The "Point" was that the PM9 does indeed actually have steel forward rails
EDIT: As far a being pointless, I can't speak to that one way or the other. I know when many people look at the frame of a PM9 they comment on the fact that the plastic rails usually appear worn even on a new gun right from the factory. I don't think that having the extra steel hurts, and I do feel with the 5000 rounds through my PM9 that is is a pretty accurate "micro" pistol
I have not seen a Ruger P series wear out... I have seen a few dozen P series tanks that nobody wants sitting in gun shops for $275 that haven't seen more than a few boxes of ammo put through them
Right. Those people are doubly ignorant.
1) They don't see the relevant rails.
2) They don't understand that even if those metal rails weren't there, plastic is fine.
;-)
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The thing about the P9 vs the Shield is that both are too big for pocket carry, for most people. Pocket carry, every ounce and every tenth of an inch counts.
But since both of these are likely to be carried either IWB or OWB, a couple of ounces or milimeters here or there isn't that big a deal.
Don
Thats why i said "if its paramount". If its important, you will notice the difference. There are guys around here that carry school buses like Sig P-series obviously they probably wouldn't care too much. All things relative. ![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
-Mike
-Mike
Garys
NES Member
My friend has a P229, which he never carries because it's so big. I don't know what possessed him to buy it in the first place.
Thats why i said "if its paramount". If its important, you will notice the difference. There are guys around here that carry school buses like Sig P-series obviously they probably wouldn't care too much. All things relative.
-Mike
Garys
NES Member
It's a beast to carry. At least I'd think so. I'd put it in the same class as my S&W 5906. Great shooting platform, but not great for concealed carry.
Here are some of my pics of the 2 of them side by side. They are identical in overall height and length. The P9 is noticeably lighter. The last pic really shows how much narrower the P9 is from the top of the slide to the bottom of the trigger guard, allowing me and my large mitts to get all 3 fingers on the grip. I can only get 2 fingers on the grip of the Shield. Both have stock triggers and for me the P9 trigger destroys the 10lb trigger of the Shield. I'm 5'-7" 270lbs, neither one of them would ever be a pocket carry for me unless it's my jacket pocket. Hope this helps.
I purchased the P9 new and put about 100 rounds through it. Now the polymer frame is bowing out above and forward of the trigger guard. Kahr says this is normal. Really? Gun frame distortion is "normal." They won't take it back either.
The frame on my P9 is bowed. It doesn't seem to affect its operation.
Yes. Was not that way when I bought it. There is a pretty healthy amount of daylight between the frame and that section of the slide too. They want you to think its cosmetic. But this isn't a blemish in the finish or something. This is frame distortion. Poor construction. Its not supposed to do that. Do we just wait to see if it does affect function? I'm no gunsmith but it would seem to me that the slide rails which are built into that part of the frame could do lots of things if they are not properly positioned due to polymer deflection. Not sure I want to find out what things when trying to shoot it.
Varmint
NES Member
I saw two used K9s that had a big gap between slide and frame, that got bigger toward the front of the gun. Turned me off - too pricey a gun for that.
