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Kimber not allowed in MA...why?
- Thread starter Big_Red
- Start date
Uhh, cause they're not on the EOPS roster, because the company
didn't bother to test them (destructive, safety testing, 3? guns ruined in the
process, per model) for starters.
There might be some AG obstacles but that's not even testable if they're not
on the roster, because the only way to "test" for "AG regs purity" is to attempt to
sell the pistols and see if she whines about it.
-Mike
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They simply won't deal with this states stupid requirements.
Yup. I remember listening to NRA Radio coming back from a trip to Canada. They were interviewing Bob Morrison from Taurus about their new .45ACP and a caller from massachusetts asked if they would be available here. I don't remember his exact words, but it ran along the lones of: "We're not going to send a perfectly functioning firearm to Massachusetts to have them destroy it" - or words to that effect. I'm sure Kimber feels the same way and I don't blame them....
Rob Boudrie
NES Member
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2005
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A project for any attorney's on this list who will be at the Shot Show -
Find some guns you think will pass the target criteria, and make a pitch to represent the manufacturer before the GCAB in return for one of each gun that you get approved as "target". The majority of the decision makers will be at the show, and this is a great chance to speak with individuals who have enough authority to actually make deals.
Does Kimber or SA sell in California?
That state has the same destructive testing - except that it's required every year! Moreover, a gun that meets the CA test has met most of the MA requirements, making this state almost a "freebie" by comparison. Once on the MA list, a gun stays there; no re-testing required.
SO, if a handgun is sold in CA, about the only reason for it not being on the EOPS list is manufacturer inertia.
Note that there is NO destructive testing required for the Target Roster and the AG is almost entirely out of the equation.
It is sad b/c the AG regs and EOPS list are only there to limit us in our choices, I highly doubt there are many if any major gun manufactures out there that are making guns that can't pass the EOPS testing. Have there been any?
Well, that and the manufacturer getting cold feet about the possibility
of getting blocked by the AG's shitty "consumer
safety" regs. IMO more manufacturers would test their guns
if there was surety they could sell them after getting them on the
list. The AG's regs stand in the way of that.
-Mike
I think that's on the AG regs side of the equation... either has to
have a mag disconnect or an LCI.
Problem is of course, as is exemplified from the Glock fiasco a few
years back, that the "definition" of what constitutes a suitable LCI
is often variable. Nobody from the AG's office has bothered to
explain why Glock's extractor paint is inferior to Beretta's or S+W's....
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Shitty regs are bad. Arbitrary enforcement of shitty regs is
even worse.
![[angry]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/008.gif "Angry [angry]")
-Mike
Nobody from the AG's office has bothered to
explain why Glock's extractor paint is inferior to Beretta's or S+W's....
Shitty regs are bad. Arbitrary enforcement of shitty regs is
even worse.
-Mike
That's because the homies like Glocks.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
IIRC, minimum requirements are a load indicator OR a magazine safety disconnect.
Sig meets the requirements by putting a half circle hole on the top of the load end of the barrel. It's totally useless like the mag disconnect but it passes the AG sniff test.
EDIT: you guys are quick - three posts since I hit the reply! I just wish GLOCK would grow a pair and not sell to LE in MA as well but that'll never happen. Not that I have anything against LE but if it's not safe for us peons why can the gov. use it?
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No the disconnect is very usefull at turning your nice defensive gun into a crappy club when your life is on the line
![[puke2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/031.gif "Puke2 [puke2]")
Honestly I can't blame them, since GLOCK went to all the trouble to be Mass Compliant, yet can't sell here. So they dumped all that $$$ for nothing. Didn't somthing similar happen to Taurus here?
I just read the list and noticed Kahr Arms got some guns on the roster. I won't hold my breath for when they get on the AG list
I think so. All I know is when the Massachusetts caller phoned in, the mood in the room with the Taurus CEO slid into the crapper - he was bristling at not sending anymore Taurus handguns to be needlessly destroyed. I think he pointed out a compact .45 that was so chock full of safety features that you would think it was designed specifically for the Massachusetts Attorney General, but it was not allowed in due to Taurus' refusal to destroy it....
dixidawg
NES Member
Why wouldn't a major distributor offer to buy some and submit them for destruction errrr I mean approval? Seems to me that if a gun were truly "compliant" of both the EOPS and the AG, it would be a worthy investment...
J
Jose
No the disconnect is very usefull at turning your nice defensive gun into a crappy club when your life is on the line
Can you show us when that has ever happened?
Magazine disconnects have been in use in tens of thousands of police firearms. I haven't heard yet of a cop dying because of one.
J
Jose
The difference is that the gun market in California positively overwhelms that in Mass many times over.
I'm pretty sure gunmakers have figured out where they can make money and where they cannot.
I would imagine that at least some of it has to do with not wanting to even mess with a fine-happy, lawsuit happy, liberal, left wing Attorney Generals office.
I would also imagine that at least some of it has to do with principles. If I were a gun manufacturer, I'd be hard-pressed to put millions into research, development, production and advertising of a firearm - only to have some swizzle-stick, self absorbed AG with a God complex tell me I had to submit one for testing and destruction to satisfy some twisted logic that consumers need to be protected. If this were Texas, New York or California, I may swallow my pride, but in a small state like Massachusetts I would think that potential profit would be outweighed by the potential for more of the same horse puckey...
![[slap]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/025.gif "Slap [slap]")
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
I would imagine a mag disconnect could actually be beneficial in some circumstances. I suppose if someone tried to wrestle a gun away, the good guy could drop the mag and render his own gun useless to the bad guy.
I don't know much about this stuff, but the mag disconnect doesn't necessarily seem like a bad idea to me. I certainly don't think it would factor into my decision of whether to purchase a particular gun or not.
It's happened to me. Magazine release button somehow got pressed while the gun was in the holster. I drew and fired at my target on the range -- only had one shot though. Fortunately, it was 1) on the range and 2) I didn't have a magazine release so I did have one shot.
The majority of police agencies in the US use Glocks, which do not have magazine releases.
It factors into my decision. I will not own a gun with one (except for a short period of time while I send it to a gunsmith to make it right).
Try clearing a gun at an IDPA match with a magazine disconnect. Then come back and tell us how much you like magazine disconnects.
And btw, magazine disconnects are not fail safe and more than a few have fired after 1) pulling the trigger and 2) then reinserting a magazine.
The only safe way to tell that a semi-auto is empty is to 1) remove the magazine, 2) cycle the slide, 3) lock the slide open, 4) visually inspect the chamber and 5) manually inspect the chamber with your finger. Depending upon a loaded chamber indicator or magazine safety is a very dangerous practice.
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J
Jose
I drop mag, show chamber empty, drop slide, drop hammer using decocker, flip decocker back to fire, and holster. Any questions?
