KRISS Anyone?

[Ray-500]

Recently purchased a new KRISS. Have been a long-time fan of ACP and it is my main staple. Have been watching this entry for the last couple of years and made the plunge. The design is definitely different.

Have found that it shoots well, is very accurate....BUT:

01. The original main slide buffer got chewed up within 120 rds. Literally destroyed.

02. Replacement buffers are VERY expensive (to me). I think $7 bucks a pop for a buffer that disintegrates is expensive.

03. Their 30-rd. mags are definitely not 30. Using an Uplula, 28 was doable, 29 was forced, and 30 impossible.

04. Using standard Glock 21 13-rd. mags....no problem.

05. Conversion kits for mags....13 to 30 and easily back. No way. It takes a flat blade screwdriver and a lot of torque to separate the "finished" 30-rounder for cleaning. Easily convertable?.....hardly.

06. After e-mailing their customer service, found that the so called 30-rd. mags are really 28 and for best operation should not be loaded with more than 25....for spring life.

07. Found that their original (now) main slide bufers do not hold up. They are in the process of getting a new MFGR and projected life is 2-3K rds. That is a big difference from total destruction within 300 rds.

08. Was promised a free 4 pack of buffers to make up for the aggravation...a couple of weeks ago. So far, no freebie.

09. On the positive side: Design works. Using 230 gr. FMJ and JHP, the piece functions flawlessly. Bbl. rise is almost non-existant.

10. They SHOULD have included an A-2 front-sight tool with the piece. Needs to be purchased separetly. Rear sight adjust works great with either of the two apertures.

11. With small aperature dominant in "fold down", the rear sight just pops up on its own due to recoil. With large aperture dominant, no problem, folds down and stays down.

12. Spare compartment...with two AA batteries in place, the module would fall out within 2 shots....time after time. Customer Svc. recommended using a foam earplug piece against the body. It worked. But, why necessary?

13. With the EOTec 512 in place, the piece is deadly. Quick acquisition, no hesitation, simply see and shoot. The 512 "ring" circle gives an immediate firing picture, while the center dot is there for more "finesse". It defaluts to a brightness setting of 4, have found that I lower it by a couple.....my eyes.

14. Not being negative about the piece at all....I think its great. Bugs need to be worked out and customer service needs to follow through on its promises.

15. Have tried to give my impressions and opinions....good and bad. Overall, I really like the piece.

 

[drgrant]

120 rounds and the buffer is gone? OUCH.


-Mike

 

[TheRoland]

Sounds not ready for prime time.

 

[Martlet]

Thanks for the info. This caught my eye.

 

[Yazz]

I shot one at a NES shoot and it was a joy but had no idea it was high maintenance. I'll have to wait for more input.

 

[Ray-500]

120 rounds and the buffer is gone? OUCH.


-Mike

Unfortunately....yes. It was not totally gone but was chewed up on both sides and was disintegrating. They are aware of the problem and are testing a new MFGR. I really don't want to denigrate the piece over this. Overall....I love it. Love its function, ease of disassembly and cleaning. The buffer just needs to be addressed.

 

[Ray-500]

As an owner, I would have to say it IS ready for prime time. Have been watching for a couple of years before the purchase, so this is not a whim. I think there may be the "universal" conflict between marketing folks and tactical "real life" folks, or, in a regular business environment, the "pulls" between marketing, sales and customer service.

Overall, I am pleased with the piece, love its accuracy, love its adaptability to multiple configurations. I will work with customer Svc. to resolve any probs. Hell, given the way I'm testing it, they should hire me.

 

[Ray-500]

Thanks for the info. This caught my eye.

Its an ongoing test. Overall, I love it...but I'm a discriminating person. Nothing is given a "pass" (by me) until I'm satisfied with function, reliabilty and accuracy. So far this has 2 of 3.

 

[Skald]

As an owner, I would have to say it IS ready for prime time.

I'd have to agree with Theroland, If your buffer is being chewed up every 120 rnds @ $7 a whack it is not ready for prime time. Every 3-4 mags or so you have to change it? if they can change it to 1-2k its a lot better. At least you don't have to have 2-3 of the things PER range trip.

 

[Ray-500]

I think your wait will be worth it. The company appears to be dedicated and is ironing out any bugs. Grin, we all look for the "perfect piece...myself included...Its a question of numbers. Does it (any) meet your requirements? This piece is getting there.

 

[Ray-500]

I'd have to agree with Theroland, If your buffer is being chewed up every 120 rnds @ $7 a whack it is not ready for prime time. Every 3-4 mags or so you have to change it? if they can change it to 1-2k its a lot better. At least you don't have to have 2-3 of the things PER range trip.

Agreed....and they know it. That is why they are going to a different MFGR for the buffers. To me, the current buffers are defective material. The items under testing should have a life of 2K-3K. This makes a lot more sense to me.

 

[MassMark]

 

[maee]

Firearms are things that require a lot of empirical tweaking and testing. You can't develop some radically different design and expect it to be as reliable as a design that has been refined for almost 100 years. The marketers would like you to think otherwise, but firearms in particular require lots of balance and polish to get pressures, metals, weights, mechanisms, etc just right.

 

[Sibb]

Are you talking about the Kriss Vector?

 

[TheRoland]

Firearms are things that require a lot of empirical tweaking and testing. You can't develop some radically different design and expect it to be as reliable as a design that has been refined for almost 100 years. The marketers would like you to think otherwise, but firearms in particular require lots of balance and polish to get pressures, metals, weights, mechanisms, etc just right.

Sure, but they would have been aware of this issue in testing, and they didn't fix it before shipping. I can understand why they wouldn't (having an income is sure nice!) but it's not necessarily going to make me happy.

 

[glide]

My only real qualm is the fact that you cannot use the charging handle to eject a FTF or jammed round. Kriss' advice was to simply turn the weapon sideways and hope it falls out on it's own.

 

[Ray-500]

Firearms are things that require a lot of empirical tweaking and testing. You can't develop some radically different design and expect it to be as reliable as a design that has been refined for almost 100 years. The marketers would like you to think otherwise, but firearms in particular require lots of balance and polish to get pressures, metals, weights, mechanisms, etc just right.

Understood....and that is why I am being so patient. Overall, I love the piece....for its design and accuracy. I also just am simply an ACP fan and always have been....both revolver and semi auto. Got an e-mail from their tech support today. They will be sending me (free) 10 of the current buffers. When the new ones get into full production, will get a a few of those...also free. Can't ask for more. Little by little, will get the piece just the way I want it so that its use becomes second nature. Their tech support and customer svc. has been great. No complaints whatsoever on my end. I think the piece has a very good future.

 

[Ray-500]

My only real qualm is the fact that you cannot use the charging handle to eject a FTF or jammed round. Kriss' advice was to simply turn the weapon sideways and hope it falls out on it's own.

Sure you can. A FTF can be ejected by manually cycling the bolt just as if you were putting in a new mag with the bolt closed. So far, with my ammo, have come across only two duds. Used the charging handle to cycle, dud came out, and fresh round went in. Hint: Don't be gentle. Quick and snappy seemed to do the job.

 

[Ray-500]

Sure, but they would have been aware of this issue in testing, and they didn't fix it before shipping. I can understand why they wouldn't (having an income is sure nice!) but it's not necessarily going to make me happy.

I agree, but they ARE diligently working to iron out any bugs. They do not make the buffers themselves....comes from a supplier. The current supplier (unknown) has a shoddy product. KRISS is going to a new supplier and has done extensive testing with the product. New buffers should be in the supply line pretty soon.

 

[Ray-500]

Are you talking about the Kriss Vector?

No....all of my comments are based on CRB/SO with 16" bbl.

 

[wolf223]

AR 15

if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

only because this was "future weapons" is why people think it's cool.

i'd sooner shoot a PX4 Storm or other faggy looking gun vs a KRISS, over priced, POS rifle.... he'll i'd get a Sig 556 first!

 

[bfm]

Does a .45 ACP gain much out of a longer barrel? Would be interesting to see what .357 SIG would do, if it gains even half what a .357 Mag does out of a longer barrel, it would be sweet. Academic for me though as a lack of any preban mags would make it almost useless here in MA.

 

[Ray-500]

AR 15

if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

only because this was "future weapons" is why people think it's cool.

i'd sooner shoot a PX4 Storm or other faggy looking gun vs a KRISS, over priced, POS rifle.... he'll i'd get a Sig 556 first!

Grin....different strokes for different folks. Out of curiousity, on what criteria do you hang the POS label on the item?

 

[wolf223]

Grin....different strokes for different folks. Out of curiousity, on what criteria do you hang the POS label on the item?

well IF you have replace a $7 part every 120 rounds, that is a start.

but seriously, i'm mainly jabbing. i never quite understood these rifles. IMO, they are hideous and expensive. i can build a better rifle or buy something better for that kind of money....

since i'm NOT a point man on the regional SRT, i don't need a $2k, 45 ACP high maint. rifle (carbine). I'd sooner invest in an AR with optics and keep it simple stupid (KISS vs. KRISS)



i guess if i hit the Mega Bucks, I'd probably fondle one at the store...

 

[Ray-500]

Does a .45 ACP gain much out of a longer barrel? Would be interesting to see what .357 SIG would do, if it gains even half what a .357 Mag does out of a longer barrel, it would be sweet. Academic for me though as a lack of any preban mags would make it almost useless here in MA.

Not sure of any incremental gain....really don't care. I personally love the round for what it is....an immediate stopper. Using a 1911 in bullseye matches required elevation of 2-3 clicks from 25 to 50 yards. Have no idea of specs at 50 yards...only accuracy. The KRISS is not designed to be a competition piece and the ACP is not a long-range round. ACP at 100 yds. would be ridiculous....but doable... with thorough familiarity with the ammo and the piece.

I don't think the guys in WW II who were carrying Thompsons were much interested in specs. They wanted a stopper....period...and were not interested in long-range sniper criteria. That's for a different round, and a different criteria.

 

[Ray-500]

well IF you have replace a $7 part every 120 rounds, that is a start.

but seriously, i'm mainly jabbing. i never quite understood these rifles. IMO, they are hideous and expensive. i can build a better rifle or buy something better for that kind of money....

since i'm NOT a point man on the regional SRT, i don't need a $2k, 45 ACP high maint. rifle (carbine). I'd sooner invest in an AR with optics and keep it simple stupid (KISS vs. KRISS)



i guess if i hit the Mega Bucks, I'd probably fondle one at the store...

Keep in mind that the buffers ARE going to a different supplier so the life (after extensive testing) will be much longer. Its a personal thing. No offense to you, but as a retired 30-year military person....most with the MP's....I do have my own personal preferences. Never liked or cared for the AR-15 or the M-16. Just me. Loved the M-14 and the Garand. Given my penchant for ACP, a 16" bbl. is a hell of a lot better than 5", and high mag capacity is a plus. I personally don't own a Glock, but the fact that the mags are interchangeable with the G-21 should be a plus. No, I didn't like it when DOD did away with the .45 and went to 9mm. I still wonder what lobbyists and corporate $$$ had a hand in that change. Guess I'm just an old fogey that loves and believes in the .45.

 

[Bob P]

Not sure of any incremental gain....really don't care. I personally love the round for what it is....an immediate stopper. Using a 1911 in bullseye matches required elevation of 2-3 clicks from 25 to 50 yards. Have no idea of specs at 50 yards...only accuracy. The KRISS is not designed to be a competition piece and the ACP is not a long-range round. ACP at 100 yds. would be ridiculous....but doable... with thorough familiarity with the ammo and the piece.

I don't think the guys in WW II who were carrying Thompsons were much interested in specs. They wanted a stopper....period...and were not interested in long-range sniper criteria. That's for a different round, and a different criteria.

Thompson is a sub-gun and was popular as such. Unless you've got a green card, you're not going to be utilizing a full auto feature. Given the handicap of semi-auto only there's no benefit to using a pistol caliber long gun. Happy you like your gun, but I'm going to go with Chet on this and say an AR with a nice optics package is a better bang for your buck. YMMV.

 

[Dench]

Don't lie to us. I get shot by 8 year old guns screaming over the microphone all the time by that in Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2. It has to be good. I never saw someones buffer break in game before.

 

[bfm]

there's no benefit to using a pistol caliber long gun. .

Actually, I love carbines in .357 and .44 Mag. From 16" barrels, then gain a lot of velocity. And you can have a common ammo for you sidearm.

Not sure about .45 ACP though, but yeah, if there is no gain from the barrel length and here in MA I am limited to a 10 round mag, I will take a pistol.

But it is still one neat firearm. Now NFA it and cut the barrel down and it might be even more interesting.

 

[TheRoland]

Actually, I love carbines in .357 and .44 Mag. From 16" barrels, then gain a lot of velocity. And you can have a common ammo for you sidearm.

But still way less than a rifle round.

But it is still one neat firearm. Now NFA it and cut the barrel down and it might be even more interesting.

An SBR'ed gun in a pistol-caliber is a whole different animal, and is made of win!