Ltc denied......overturned by district judge.....then reversed at appeal to mass superior court.

[pastera]

Yes but that decision would be completely on him with nobody else involved. And it would be a stupid choice for him to bring a gun into that mad house.

However, since this is MA and someone else has to look at his situation and made a judgement call, I completely understand why the chief would say no.

If he is there chalking off a body in a month after the guy gets his LTC, someone is going to ask questions.

Not the chief's problem - Is Dwiggins a prohibited person? No, then issue the license.

 

[Dennis in MA]

We are talking purchase and ownership here technically...carry is another issue, but he can't purchase a gun in MA without an LTC, so its a total denial of ownership.

Im pretty sure its like 40 plus states......most states in the US you flip an ID card of some sort, usually a drivers license....pass a 4473 and you get your gun.

Only retard states have a scheme where you can't get a gun without a special firearms related gover(nment ID card.

My point is there is no fence. Eitehr you're a PP or you're not. We can't legislate safety. (I'd argue PP is illegal. If you can vote you can own a gun. Sorry. If the guy is dangerous, he shouldn't be let out.)

So that we don't get a president that wore knee pads to get the job. That's why.

There were some here and elsewhere that were creaming in their Wheaties about the 2A freedoms that would be coming down the pike. So far. . . . . they've backed off some ATF regulations. Wow!

I think most of us are intelligent enough to know that Trump and most other R politicians are not 2A heros. They don't pander to the 2A hater voting bloc- that's all we get from them.

I had some other pithy response but I forgot it. So you can all just sit there and laugh at me. LOL

 

[pastera]

Yes I know my opinion isn’t going to popular with the retard group think here. I’m not saying he can’t have a gun, just that I wouldn’t be complicit in him getting one while he lives in that situation.

So if I was the chief, and it was my decision, no gun for you. I’ve made my opinion quite clear many times that I don’t believe actual retards should own guns. This guy qualifies as an actual retard just by trying to get one into that house.

No, I don’t believe every person in the world should have unlimited access to weapons. Aside from retards, seriously mentally ill people and violent felons, I’d have to decide on a case by case basis if it was up to me. Those are the only 3 groups I’d throw a blanket “no” at.

Quote away boys, you won’t change my mind. This guy should probably buy a safe just to keep all the sharp objects he owns locked up in.

Do you have the same position on driver's licenses?
A 3500 lb car at 35 mph has about 143k ft-lbf of energy
9mm is about 350 ft-lbf
So driving a car puts 400x the energy out there at even city speeds

As we have seen lately a vehicle is an easily attained deadly weapon - if it saves just one life...

 

[StevieP]

How did the police in NC know he even had guns? Here, it’s barely an inconvenience , they just look up fa-10s, but in NC?

I'm sure his wife told them.

 

[Nick Fury]

I'm sure his wife told them.

“Loose lips sink ships”

Nothing like a mutinous saboteur aboard the family vessel looking to run aground or steer toward the rocks…

 

[Mountain]

Yes I know my opinion isn’t going to popular with the retard group think here. I’m not saying he can’t have a gun, just that I wouldn’t be complicit in him getting one while he lives in that situation.

So if I was the chief, and it was my decision, no gun for you. I’ve made my opinion quite clear many times that I don’t believe actual retards should own guns. This guy qualifies as an actual retard just by trying to get one into that house.

No, I don’t believe every person in the world should have unlimited access to weapons. Aside from retards, seriously mentally ill people and violent felons, I’d have to decide on a case by case basis if it was up to me. Those are the only 3 groups I’d throw a blanket “no” at.

Quote away boys, you won’t change my mind. This guy should probably buy a safe just to keep all the sharp objects he owns locked up in.

Maura, please go back to bullying out of state reloading component vendors and exit this discussion.

Sincerely,

Retard Group Thinker No. 7.

 

[Mark from ?]

I'm sure his wife told them.

And this is where the whole thing with the OP will fall off the rails anyway...even if the judges gave the guy his rights back 100%.

Once the wife/son finds out the guy buys a gun.....they simply just red flag this guy and the pissed off, butthurt police chief will be right over to pull his LTC and firearms.

What even makes you think this guy would ever have a gun for more than a day or two, in his situation. I'll admit, that's all it might take for things to go sideways in this household.........but this dude is never going to have long term gun ownership rights unless he ditches the bitch, and GRO's the son.

Even then, pissed off Chief can find someone that will flag him. I mean all you need is like anyone up there to make an accusation. mother, father, third cousin's sister, dogwalker, kindergarten school teacher that you had 40 years ago........its a joke.

So all the leftists here that were worried about this guy actually owning a gun.........yup....there is checks and balances for sure on this freedom shit. So no worries.....seems us retard group thinkers never get our own way.

 

[In God We Trust]

I'm not looking to change your mind. You think due process isn't a natural right. That's fine. I personally think that anyone too dangerous or retarded to own a gun is too retarded or dangerous to be walking around freely and should be caged or put into a work camp. But this should be the result of due process. You have to prove that you're a violent retard with your actions and then two jewish lawyers argue back and fourth in front of a jury of your peers while a hopefully impartial judge acts like a referee.

Relegating the power to deny any of your rights to a single entity with unilateral power and no oversight is just retarded.

I agree with most of this except the part that if you can’t be trusted with a gun you belong in a cage. That’s a slippery slope also and there are plenty of really stupid people who I wouldn’t want to be in the same state with if they had a gun. Yet they are living fairly normal, stupid lives working normal, stupid jobs and for the most part getting by.

Everything I posted above was of course on the condition that I was magically the LTC fairy and it was my decision if someone got one of not. I would never want to be in that position and thankfully never will.

 

[PappyM3]

Absolutely, you say all the right things, but when it comes down to it, and your work with Comm2a, you hold back on suitability cases, looking for that perfect defendant. And obviously, if they were perfect they wouldn't be facing suitability. Talking the talk is great, but walking the walk is what matters. I have a lot of respect for you and Comm2a on a number of things, but not this one.

Well because of precedent that could affect EVERYONE in the state, not just the individual unjustly blocked from his rights.

One can absolutely say this guy shouldn’t be denied his LTC while at the same time wanting a better defendant to push forward. Better in the sense of optics.

 

[whatluck]

I agree with most of this except the part that if you can’t be trusted with a gun you belong in a cage. That’s a slippery slope also and there are plenty of really stupid people who I wouldn’t want to be in the same state with if they had a gun. Yet they are living fairly normal, stupid lives working normal, stupid jobs and for the most part getting by.

Everything I posted above was of course on the condition that I was magically the LTC fairy and it was my decision if someone got one of not. I would never want to be in that position and thankfully never will.

If they're likely to mishandle a gun then they're just as likely to commit vehicular manslaughter or try to jump a dirtbike off a roof and land in a pool. People who are a danger to themselves and others and prove it should be locked up. If they pay their debt to society and get out then all of their rights should be restored. If they still act retarded after all that then jail isn't working so maybe we should try gulag.

 

[In God We Trust]

Maura, please go back to bullying out of state reloading component vendors and exit this discussion.

Sincerely,

Retard Group Thinker No. 7.

I know you are mostly joking, but it’s not a good faith argument because my position and our beloved “first openly gay” governor’s are vastly different.

If it were up to me, you could go to the mill and buy a full auto belt fed with a suppressor. So long as you weren’t retarded, seriously mentally ill or a violent felon.

 

[In God We Trust]

Do you have the same position on driver's licenses?
A 3500 lb car at 35 mph has about 143k ft-lbf of energy
9mm is about 350 ft-lbf
So driving a car puts 400x the energy out there at even city speeds

As we have seen lately a vehicle is an easily attained deadly weapon - if it saves just one life...

Yeah I wouldn’t like to see retards driving cars either. I mean legit retards, not just people who are kind of stupid. Those people are out in force on the road and for the most part little more than a manageable risk and a general annoyance.

I’m aware you can kill someone with just about anything if you set your mind to it. Even a pencil. (A PENCIL!) but that doesn’t mean that you can’t apply common sense to this situation and rationally come to the conclusion that introducing a gun into this house is a tragedy waiting to happen.

Let me ask you this. You are the one who gets the final say if I get my LTC or not. Instead of “all lawful purposes” I write “I’ve been feeling pretty depressed for a few years and I want to keep my options open.”

Do I belong in a cage? Do you grant me the LTC or would you find me unsuitable?

 

[Mark from ?]

I know you are mostly joking, but it’s not a good faith argument because my position and our beloved “first openly gay” governor’s are vastly different.

If it were up to me, you could go to the mill and buy a full auto belt fed with a suppressor. So long as you weren’t retarded, seriously mentally ill or a violent felon.

So.....the guy in the OP is retarded by osmosis thru his family? That's the thinking here?

 

[Kicker96FS]

A right is a right, he should not be denied a LTC based on others in his life. Why he hangs around that situation is beyond me but some people like the crazy.
Besides, if something does happen it's a self correcting problem right?

 

[In God We Trust]

If they're likely to mishandle a gun then they're just as likely to commit vehicular manslaughter or try to jump a dirtbike off a roof and land in a pool. People who are a danger to themselves and others and prove it should be locked up. If they pay their debt to society and get out then all of their rights should be restored. If they still act retarded after all that then jail isn't working so maybe we should try gulag.

Everyone keeps saying this but legally the state has every right to strip you of your rights after due process. You don’t have the right to keep and bear arms in prison right? Nobody is making that argument.

How about if they are on parole or probation for a violent offense? They have been convicted of a crime and the court has imposed limitations on what they can do. No drinking, drugs, have to be in by a certain hour, etc. do you think it’s ok if the judge says “no guns” also or is that the deal breaker?

 

[In God We Trust]

So.....the guy in the OP is retarded by osmosis thru his family? That's the thinking here?

No, I’m saying that I agree with the chief’s decision and understand why he made it. I personally don’t care if the dude gets a gun. It’s not my problem and since I have no skin in this game, it’s easy for me to sit here and be a staunch 2A advocate and say “everyone gets a gun!”

If the guys whole family gets murdered, one of you will post a link about it, I’ll read it while taking a shit and think “oh how sad” wipe my ass and forget all about it.

My OPINION is based on the fact that the chief has to live with himself if this happens. No way in hell would I issue the guy an LTC if it were my decision. Let him go to court and a judge can make the decision and live with it. I’ve got enough shit on my conscience already.

 

[Dennis in MA]

I agree with most of this except the part that if you can’t be trusted with a gun you belong in a cage. That’s a slippery slope also and there are plenty of really stupid people who I wouldn’t want to be in the same state with if they had a gun. Yet they are living fairly normal, stupid lives working normal, stupid jobs and for the most part getting by.

Everything I posted above was of course on the condition that I was magically the LTC fairy and it was my decision if someone got one of not. I would never want to be in that position and thankfully never will.

I can understand your position. But let's take it a step further.


We can't trust "those people" to have children.

We can't trust "those people" to own property.

We can't trust "those people" to vote.

(I actually had SEVERAL people on another gun board years ago that thought that your ability to vote should be tied to property ownership. They were F'ing troglodytes for sure. LOL)

Given which slippery slope I slide down, I'm always gonna pick "well, they turned it to shit, but they were free to do so." It'll never be the, "we turned it to shit while trying to stop people from turning it to shit."

Amazingly, the FF's didn't think the republic would last 20 years. That freedom would F it up. We've gone near 250. I'm willing to take the same bet they did.

 

[Mark from ?]

Yeah I wouldn’t like to see retards driving cars either. I mean legit retards, not just people who are kind of stupid. Those people are out in force on the road and for the most part little more than a manageable risk and a general annoyance.

I’m aware you can kill someone with just about anything if you set your mind to it. Even a pencil. (A PENCIL!) but that doesn’t mean that you can’t apply common sense to this situation and rationally come to the conclusion that introducing a gun into this house is a tragedy waiting to happen.

Let me ask you this. You are the one who gets the final say if I get my LTC or not. Instead of “all lawful purposes” I write “I’ve been feeling pretty depressed for a few years and I want to keep my options open.”

Do I belong in a cage? Do you grant me the LTC or would you find me unsuitable?

You for certain have the government can keep me safe gene........and non of us believe in applications reviewed by the police department to get our constitutional rights. A tragedy waiting to happen...maybe....but whats to say he saves someone's life with it tomorrow.. Are you fxcking clairvoyant?

But I'll play........I havent filled it out in a while, but I think the form initially in MA is like a 4473....so if you are feeling mentally ill, or depressed and answer yes to the mental question. Your not gonna get your permit, and its an automatic denial. So problem solved.

But this is really nothing like that, your making shit up and trying to compare apples and oranges......and make this guy look like he should be denied because of his home life and family.

 

[In God We Trust]

I can understand your position. But let's take it a step further.


We can't trust "those people" to have children.

We can't trust "those people" to own property.

We can't trust "those people" to vote.

(I actually had SEVERAL people on another gun board years ago that thought that your ability to vote should be tied to property ownership. They were F'ing troglodytes for sure. LOL)

Given which slippery slope I slide down, I'm always gonna pick "well, they turned it to shit, but they were free to do so." It'll never be the, "we turned it to shit while trying to stop people from turning it to shit."

Amazingly, the FF's didn't think the republic would last 20 years. That freedom would F it up. We've gone near 250. I'm willing to take the same bet they did.

I’m ok with a basic civics test for voting. We could even have a box they check for extreme leftist ideas they agree with. If they check one or more, they get a ten year ban from voting and have to pay for an American values class taught by someone who agrees with ME politically.

As to owning property, I think if you are competent enough to have money buy property (especially in this state) then you can own it. I can’t really see any harm a total drooling yard could do with a few acres of land anyway. Might actually be a good idea. Give them some land in the woods and let them run around naked or do whatever they want.

 

[In God We Trust]

You for certain have the government can keep me safe gene........and non of us believe in applications reviewed by the police department to get our constitutional rights.

But I'll play........I havent filled it out in a while, but I think the form initially in MA is like a 4473....so if you are feeling mentally ill, or depressed and answer yes to the mental question. Your not gonna get your permit, and its an automatic denial. So problem solved.

But this is really nothing like that, your making shit up and trying to compare apples and oranges......

Again, like I said in my first post in this thread. I agree with the chief decision. I posted why I agree with it. I don’t care if he gets a gun and his whole family dies. Not my problem.

Edit: I don’t mean to sound callous. I do care in the sense that I don’t want it to happen, just that if it did, it wouldn’t ruin my day or anything. Shit like that happens everywhere, every day.

 

[Mark from ?]

No, I’m saying that I agree with the chief’s decision and understand why he made it. I personally don’t care if the dude gets a gun. It’s not my problem and since I have no skin in this game, it’s easy for me to sit here and be a staunch 2A advocate and say “everyone gets a gun!”

If the guys whole family gets murdered, one of you will post a link about it, I’ll read it while taking a shit and think “oh how sad” wipe my ass and forget all about it.

My OPINION is based on the fact that the chief has to live with himself if this happens. No way in hell would I issue the guy an LTC if it were my decision. Let him go to court and a judge can make the decision and live with it. I’ve got enough shit on my conscience already.

See....this is big boy pants time.....freedom is messy. You safety guys love to deflect actual blame on to the Chief...hes got nothing to do with it.
He's charged by the Constitution and state of MA to give LTC shall issue, that's his fxcking JOB. If he doesn't like his JOB, can't handle that something might happen bad, he should quit, or get the state to not have him hand out LTC's.

Its is the personal responsibility of the LTC holder if his family is killed or something happens with that gun......and Chief has nothing to do with it. There is nothing the Chief has to "live with"

This chief grants permission scheme has you guys all twisted up to thinking permit should be issued on merits of safety and what MIGHT happen, or what you think MIGHT happen. No....its shall issue based on questions asked and answered and criminal history.

 

[whatluck]

Everyone keeps saying this but legally the state has every right to strip you of your rights after due process. You don’t have the right to keep and bear arms in prison right? Nobody is making that argument.

How about if they are on parole or probation for a violent offense? They have been convicted of a crime and the court has imposed limitations on what they can do. No drinking, drugs, have to be in by a certain hour, etc. do you think it’s ok if the judge says “no guns” also or is that the deal breaker?

There should be no parole or probation. These are just administrative bloat and don't help recovery. You're either a free man or you're paying your debt to society.

 

[Mark from ?]

Edit: I don’t mean to sound callous. I do care in the sense that I don’t want it to happen, just that if it did, it wouldn’t ruin my day or anything. Shit like that happens everywhere, every day.

I don't care......it may be callous as hell to you.......

I would also would never deflect blame on the Chief or court either.......anything happens its 100% the dude's fault.

Just as its 100% a criminals fault if they break into your house and you blast them. Its their fault, they made a bad choice to enter your home looking to do criminal stuff.

I care that this dude gets his rights and everyone else does too. Even if something happens.....because that is better than the alternative of constantly eroding everyone's rights based on safety, and deflecting blame on other people, or inanimate objects and the selective rights schemes that go along with it.

 

[MisterHappy]

It is unfortunate to see how many people feel comfortable denying due process to individuals as long as they cannot identify with the person being denied due process. Depriving someone of a constutionally protected right without a judicial finding of mental incompetence or criminal wrongdoing is denial of such process.

To me, it seems that the people that are siding with the chief are imposing their own standards of "suitability".

IMO, this is analogous to saying, "You live in a bad neighborhood, your house may be robbed, and if you have a gun there, it might be stolen. No gun for you."

Guy has not been convicted....innocent until proven guilty, and all that.

 

[Parker Schreiber]

(I actually had SEVERAL people on another gun board years ago that thought that your ability to vote should be tied to property ownership. They were F'ing troglodytes for sure. LOL)

Does that make James Madison a troglodtye?

Property: James Madison, Note to His Speech on the Right of Suffrage

 

[mcshooter]

Not the chief's problem - Is Dwiggins a prohibited person? No, then issue the license.

That's the post bruen answer

Pre bruen is another story

 

[MisterHappy]

I agree with most of this except the part that if you can’t be trusted with a gun you belong in a cage. That’s a slippery slope also and there are plenty of really stupid people who I wouldn’t want to be in the same state with if they had a gun. Yet they are living fairly normal, stupid lives working normal, stupid jobs and for the most part getting by.

Everything I posted above was of course on the condition that I was magically the LTC fairy and it was my decision if someone got one of not. I would never want to be in that position and thankfully never will.

I think that pretty much everyone in the retard-group-think hive will agree that we're thankful that you never will, too.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

I agree with most of this except the part that if you can’t be trusted with a gun you belong in a cage. That’s a slippery slope also and there are plenty of really stupid people who I wouldn’t want to be in the same state with if they had a gun. Yet they are living fairly normal, stupid lives working normal, stupid jobs and for the most part getting by.

True story.

I remember going to the Quabbin deer hunter orientation when they first opened it up to deer hunting. I clearly recall looking around and thinking that I am going to be in the woods with guns with these guys???? Then they were taking about vehicle scouting days and then one guy raises his hand, there is always that one guy, and asks if he can get out of the car on the vehicle scouting days?

Lots of deer got shot, no humans were shot, but there was that one moose that got blasted……….well, like I said. There is I always one.

 

[Mark from ?]

That's the post bruen answer

Pre bruen is another story

Pre bruen was totally unconstitutional and the supreme court allowed that bullshit scheme to live on forever, a good part of my life in MA.

While I was never denied because I was in Republican central MA and got the permission slip.....many others east of me were, and couldn't carry in their own towns, yet I could carry anywhere in their town.

What a crock of shit.

 

[Mark from ?]

True story.

I remember going to the Quabbin deer hunter orientation when they first opened it up to deer hunting. I clearly recall looking around and thinking that I am going to be in the woods with guns with these guys???? Then they were taking about vehicle scouting days and then one guy raises his hand, there is always that one guy, and asks if he can get out of the car on the vehicle scouting days?

Lots of deer got shot, no humans were shot, but there was that one moose that got blasted……….well, like I said. There is I always one.

Hell people usually from NY or NJ city morons, used to get drunked up and shoot pigs and cows in the farm fields in the Berkshires and claim they thought they were deer.
There is no shortage of idiots out there.

Which is why the farmers out there if you asked permission....and first question was where you from? If you were from NY/NJ.....you got told to GTFO their land. Add to that a lot of the bastards were buying up land and posting it and messing with the town ordinances. Didn't really go over well with the locals.

My friend that hunted PA said the same thing farmers hated them.......I said man...those guys really have a great rep!