LTC training is restored for now

We're not happy about a training requirement.

We're happy the Staties, who tried to put up a moratorium on new LTCs for the indefinite future, have backed grudgingly down.
They are probably figuring a new go around.
 
They are probably figuring a new go around.

That lawsuit will be just as easy as this one would have been.

They tried to shut down new licenses completely. That was an overshoot by them. They knew they couldn't do that, but they tried anyway. If they try again, they'll have to back down again because even in Massachusetts, that's no bueno at all.

F**kin' tyrants. It's galling to have to force them to follow even the most basic constitutional principles, but here we are.
 
Lets Go Sport GIF by ALL ELITE WRESTLING
 
As they were, HOWEVER, none of this language in the new notice says anything about if a person can't get their appointment and application submitted prior to law going into affect. So instructors in good conscience should have to think twice about taking someone's money for a class knowing they likely won't be able to use that cert. So may not be much of a win as of right now. Maybe that will change with future notices from them.
The speed with which the state police backed down is clear indication of spanking he got from his legal team
City level chiefs are being informed to tow the line to limit our ability to get cases to an injunction before the law actually takes effect.
 
I kinda want Comm2a to stay away from talks with the State. Let it get to court in its entirety. You know this is just a time out till they do the really bad stuff. This is like helping the State in this situation they caused themselves. Let’s get the whole thing tossed in a court of law !
 
I kinda want Comm2a to stay away from talks with the State. Let it get to court in its entirety. You know this is just a time out till they do the really bad stuff. This is like helping the State in this situation they caused themselves. Let’s get the whole thing tossed in a court of law !
Money not spent on this is well spent elsewhere.
 
I kinda want Comm2a to stay away from talks with the State. Let it get to court in its entirety. You know this is just a time out till they do the really bad stuff. This is like helping the State in this situation they caused themselves. Let’s get the whole thing tossed in a court of law !

I suspect Comm2A agrees with you, but this wasn't up to them: the Staties backed down, and in the process mooted the lawsuit and removed the need to go to court.

There are two sides in any war, and they both get a say. But there's no possibility that "the whole thing" will get tossed out all at once. That's not the way this works.
 
Classes as they were. No new stuff has been added to the approved curriculum from MSP yet.

I think the big question is will MSP create their own class curriculum, or will they take some subset of the 20 or so classes that they currently have approved, and add the suicide, de-escalation, laws, etc as additional modules?

I mean, NRA BHFS is supposed to be 4 hrs, plus the hour long GOAL law primer.. If you add GOAL's suicide video is another 10 min or so.. will the other modules add hours to the class? Do the 8-hour classes turn to 10 hr, or 2 day?

and if they do create their own curriculum, who will be training the instructors? how much will it cost? How long will that take? etc...
I highly doubt that anything is going to get done in any "state reasonable" amount of time. The MSP has better things to do with their time right now than try to implement a new LTC training program. I'm guessing and hoping this will be just like any other great idea that requires more work from a state funded corrupt organization. That it will be yessed to death and then forgotten about over time.
 
I highly doubt that anything is going to get done in any "state reasonable" amount of time. The MSP has better things to do with their time right now than try to implement a new LTC training program. I'm guessing and hoping this will be just like any other great idea that requires more work from a state funded corrupt organization. That it will be yessed to death and then forgotten about over time.

I'm thinking the same thing; actually, I think this reversal basically gives them a permanent "grace period" to trot this new curriculum out.
 
LTC training is back on until either the MSP gets their stuff together on the new law or other interventions occur. Comm2A's attorney was discussing details with the AGs office today and further announcements will be forthcoming. PDs will be noticed via EOPSS, most likely next week.



NB: Cases like this one rely on donors. Please consider becoming a recurring donor to Comm2A.

oh yeah. That is a great win for both the student and instructors. :rolleyes: All because the state can't get their shit together both students and instructors should be out time and/or money.
Sounds like a classic case of “we have to pass it to find out what’s in it“ and then they pass it with no comprehension of what it even means or how it’s gonna affect anything retards

But they passed the law , but it won’t be enforced? That’s not how laws work.
 
Sounds like a classic case of “we have to pass it to find out what’s in it“ and then they pass it with no comprehension of what it even means or how it’s gonna affect anything retards

But they passed the law , but it won’t be enforced? That’s not how laws work.
There are many laws that are ignored or selectively enforced. The 40 day maximum on LTC applications being the one everyone knows about.
 
There are many laws that are ignored or selectively enforced. The 40 day maximum on LTC applications being the one everyone knows about.
That one really gets me like they refuse to take your application to don’t allowed to do that like Holyoke for example wouldn’t even accept your application for a machine gun license… they have to accept it. You shouldn’t need a scheduled appointment or anything you just drop it off.

I know they don’t have discretion over LTC’s anymore. I’m sure they still pull it with machine gun licenses by just not accepting it but they have to accept it and then they can just deny it, but they refused to accept. It is stupid.

Then they used to only let you apply 30 days before your expiration and now their telling you to apply 90 days in advance… well they only have 40 days to do it then why would you need to apply 90 days in advance?

The training thing is really nonsense when I got my FID. I did the pistol course so I wouldn’t have to do it twice fast-forward. I got my LTC then I went to renew demanded the seat again I didn’t have it anymore cause you don’t need it so I had to take the course again.

A lot of these instructors are just stupid too about safety, laws basically being arranged, safety officer they’re just such a joke
 
Will there be a second lawsuit to force the state to accept the existing courses until the new curriculum is available and instructors have enough time to implement it? If not, we’ll have the same problem again on 10/23, right?

Or do I misunderstand the SP’s new position?
 
I'm thinking the same thing; actually, I think this reversal basically gives them a permanent "grace period" to trot this new curriculum out.
My opinion is that the State Police were not in the loop at the end of this new law negotiations. And when it hit they were caught flat footed now finding out they had a new process to implement.
 
Sounds like a classic case of “we have to pass it to find out what’s in it“ and then they pass it with no comprehension of what it even means or how it’s gonna affect anything retards

But they passed the law , but it won’t be enforced? That’s not how laws work.
They knew exactly what was in it.
Each of the things that remained were discussed by us speaking to our own reps and by GOAL lobbying.

While there may have been an error or two, the interruptions in sales was intentional.
The state police trying to interrupt licensing was intentional on their part - the bill clearly allows the current training until the live fire curriculum is developed.
 
The cynic in me says they intentionally loaded this with crappy elements they knew we would want to challenge soon. Each case costs time and money. They can keep dropping or revising. Each case eats up the war chest and puts time on the clock. Low hanging fruit for us or really for them to distract us from going after the big issues?

Maybe I’ve just watched too many episodes of Suits?
 
What I just sent to Kristen:

---------------
Hi Kristen,

Thanks for the update.

I'm a little unclear on the language though.

Does this mean that any BFS certificate issued before 10/23 will be
accepted, even if the police department won't give the student an
interview/appointment until after 10/23?

And a second question:

§131P(a) says, "persons possessing a firearms identification card or
license to carry firearms prior to the implementation of live firearms
trainings as required in this section shall also be exempt from such
requirement. "

Does this mean the current training certs will be accepted until live
fire curriculum is implemented, or just that people who successfully
get an LTC or FID before live fire is implemented don't need the new
course? This could be a real problem because almost no police
departments schedule appointments in a timely manner, and even fewer
actually issue LTCs or FIDs within the statutory 40 day window. For
instance, Lexington PD isn't allowing anyone to even schedule an
appointment until they complete their move to a new building. Even
students who took their BSF course before 8/1 can't get an appointment
until after 10/23.

I appreciate whatever insight you can provide on these matters.

Thank you,

-Milktree
 
The cynic in me says they intentionally loaded this with crappy elements they knew we would want to challenge soon. Each case costs time and money. They can keep dropping or revising. Each case eats up the war chest and puts time on the clock. Low hanging fruit for us or really for them to distract us from going after the big issues?

Maybe I’ve just watched too many episodes of Suits?
Right on the money. If they can get GOAL and Comm2A to spend lawsuit money on readily resolvable bullshit issues (that cost the state nothing to address) instead of the really big Constitutional issues, then that's a big win for the state. :(
 
Will there be a second lawsuit to force the state to accept the existing courses until the new curriculum is available and instructors have enough time to implement it? If not, we’ll have the same problem again on 10/23, right?

Or do I misunderstand the SP’s new position?
Their position is that they will have the stuff ready for the 10/23 date.

Happy to slap them again.
 
Their position is that they will have the stuff ready for the 10/23 date.

If they can manage that, I'll be really, really impressed.

That's not entirely true. If they can manage that and not put out absolute garbage, I'll be impressed.

I can totally see slapping together something that is impossible to comply with or doesn't even meet the letter of the law, wiping their hands, and saying, "well, that's done."
 
If they can manage that, I'll be really, really impressed.

That's not entirely true. If they can manage that and not put out absolute garbage, I'll be impressed.

I can totally see slapping together something that is impossible to comply with or doesn't even meet the letter of the law, wiping their hands, and saying, "well, that's done."
No doubt. They can make the training so difficult, expensive and abusive that a good number of people will fail or not even bother. That will be the follow-up lawsuit.
 
I suspect Comm2A agrees with you, but this wasn't up to them: the Staties backed down, and in the process mooted the lawsuit and removed the need to go to court.

There are two sides in any war, and they both get a say. But there's no possibility that "the whole thing" will get tossed out all at once. That's not the way this

There are many laws that are ignored or selectively enforced. The 40 day maximum on LTC applications being the one everyone knows about.
Or how about during Covid when you could legally mail your LTC application to the colonel of the state police and he’s like no I’m not doing that
 
My opinion is that the State Police were not in the loop at the end of this new law negotiations. And when it hit they were caught flat footed now finding out they had a new process to implement.
If so, it's VERY instructive that their immediate impulse was let's stop it all! NOW!
 
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