MA resident buying and storing in Maine?

[MAbyME]

Hi everyone. I've done some searching and posting on the web, but I haven't gotten any good (complete) answers. I figured this is probably the best place to go as it's full of shooters from my areas.

I'm a MA resident who is from Maine. My whole family and most of my good friends are from the area. Every Thanksgiving we go to the backwoods of Maine and shoot a wide array of family-owned firearms. I recently moved out of Boston, and after enjoying the hell out of myself this Thanksgiving (an AR-15 will do that to you) I told myself I'm going to get my MA license. So I am currently working on it and doing all the research that goes along with it.

For the below, I don't know if this matters or not: Right now I have a Maine driver's license (renewal was up this summer, and because of a couple different factors I chose to do the simple online renewal instead of getting a MA license, even though I live in Mass full time). There's no way for me to prove Maine residency, nor would I want to hop into a grey area there by saying I was a resident.

One question I have that I'm struggling with is compliance when purchasing out of state and storing out of state. I am in no way a Maine resident, but like I said, close family and friends are. As I understand it I can purchase in MA, and drive to Maine to shoot without a problem. I also believe I can purchase in Maine, but the gun has to be legal in both Maine and MA. Is this the case? Is there any legal way to own a post-ban > 10-rd magazine in Maine if you are a MA resident, or something like an AR without a pinned stock? For instance, I really like the M&P15-22 as a lower-end starter rifle. In MA this would have a pinned stock and a 10-rd magazine. Thinking about the AR I shot in Maine with a pinned stock and a 10-rd magazine definitely makes it feel neutered to me. I in no way want to skirt the law or end up in a murky grey area, so it seems like my only options are: Suck it up and use my MA compliant guns in Maine, or be thankful I have good friends that will allow me to use their Maine-compliant guns whenever I come to visit. I really like the idea of owning my own (who doesn't?), but suggesting somebody buy a certain gun for my use seems like it's too close to a straw purchase to be comfortable.



Any thoughts are greatly appreciated, especially if I'm off-track with what I currently understand.

 

[CCW]

You can store your legally owned property in any state you like as long as it's legal in that jurisdiction. You can purchase long guns in any state but handguns may only be purchased in your state of residence. The gun has to be legal in whatever jurisdiction you possess it in. You'll never get a MA LTC with a Maine driver's license.

 

[MAbyME]

You'll never get a MA LTC with a Maine driver's license.

I figured that this would be the case. Though the paperwork says "proof of residence", I'm sure any MA issuer would probably balk at the Maine license. Just another thing to add to the list.

If I'm looking for the LTC so that I can own handguns, but not necessarily carry concealed, is there any benefit to an LTC-A over an LTC-B? (other than owning pre-ban mags)

 

[BattleSnail]

also don't get in a car accident until you stop committing insurance fraud. The insurance company WILL see your MA address and realize that your keeping a Maine license and Maine plates and Maine insurance to save money. They won't pay your claim and they'll cancel your policy.

Happened to me when I moved back to MA after college. I just never bothered to move my reg/lic/insurance here, more out of laziness than anything as the monthly premium difference was only like $10. Got whacked by a hit and run driver and they refused my claim when they found my MA address.

 

[Ultrarunner]

If you have a Maine driver's license, you are a resident of Maine...if not, you have 90 days to get a Massachusetts drivers license.

As far as guns go, with your Maine license you may buy whatever you wish (long gun/handgun) and store them in Maine. Once you get a Mass drivers license you can still keep them in Maine. Finally, once you get a MA LTC and wish to bring them to MA they must be AWB compliant and no post 1994 magazines that hold greater than 10 rounds.

 

[MAbyME]

also don't get in a car accident until you stop committing insurance fraud. The insurance company WILL see your MA address and realize that your keeping a Maine license and Maine plates and Maine insurance to save money. They won't pay your claim and they'll cancel your policy.

No car in the state, so no fraud to commit, on that level at least. First order of business will be getting a Mass license, though. That should have happened long ago.

If you have a Maine driver's license, you are a resident of Maine...if not, you have 90 days to get a Massachusetts drivers license.

I don't believe that first past is true, according to the ATF, Here. Let me know if I'm wrong, I could be reading it in a different way. Either way, I should get a MA license.

 

[drgrant]

You need to situate your residency first, pick one and stick with it.

Then, if you're really an MA resident you're going to be hamstrung by federal law (Many remote FFLs will discriminate sales (EG, MA AWB bullshit) based on state of residency, regardless of the fact that you won't be storing the gun in MA) There are, however, legal ways around the problem you will encounter. Best idea is to get a stripped lower down here once you get your LTC, and then bring it back to Maine and build it up the way you want it and leave it there. There is no AWB BS in Maine so you'll be in the clear.

-Mike

 

[CCW]

I figured that this would be the case. Though the paperwork says "proof of residence", I'm sure any MA issuer would probably balk at the Maine license. Just another thing to add to the list.

If I'm looking for the LTC so that I can own handguns, but not necessarily carry concealed, is there any benefit to an LTC-A over an LTC-B? (other than owning pre-ban mags)

Apply for the class A. Unless you're under 21 there's no reason to go for anything else. There's no need for the lengthy explanation but basically the class A allows possession of any legal gun (no machine guns, and AWB issues of course), the class B doesn't, and the application process is the same for both licenses.

 

[MAbyME]

You need to situate your residency first, pick one and stick with it.

Then, if you're really an MA resident you're going to be hamstrung by federal law (Many remote FFLs will discriminate sales (EG, MA AWB bullshit) based on state of residency, regardless of the fact that you won't be storing the gun in MA) There are, however, legal ways around the problem you will encounter. Best idea is to get a stripped lower down here once you get your LTC, and then bring it back to Maine and build it up the way you want it and leave it there. There is no AWB BS in Maine so you'll be in the clear.

-Mike

Thanks. Yeah, sadly the job is in Mass, so that's where the residency needs to go, regardless of the rougher gun laws.

Do you know what the law on something like a high-capacity magazine purchased in Maine is? MA-compliant gun purchased in MA, brought to Maine, then high-capacity magazine purchased in Maine? Is it illegal for a MA resident to purchase something because it's not legal in Massachusetts (I'm sure the FFL sees it as going immediately back to MA as soon as somebody leaves the store with it).

 

[CCW]

Thanks. Yeah, sadly the job is in Mass, so that's where the residency needs to go, regardless of the rougher gun laws.

Do you know what the law on something like a high-capacity magazine purchased in Maine is? MA-compliant gun purchased in MA, brought to Maine, then high-capacity magazine purchased in Maine? Is it illegal for a MA resident to purchase something because it's not legal in Massachusetts (I'm sure the FFL sees it as going immediately back to MA as soon as somebody leaves the store with it).

Any non gun items are most often no questions asked purchases. No serial number- no problem. Just like the guns they have to be legal in the jurisdiction in which you possess them.

 

[drgrant]

Thanks. Yeah, sadly the job is in Mass, so that's where the residency needs to go, regardless of the rougher gun laws.

Do you know what the law on something like a high-capacity magazine purchased in Maine is? MA-compliant gun purchased in MA, brought to Maine, then high-capacity magazine purchased in Maine? Is it illegal for a MA resident to purchase something because it's not legal in Massachusetts (I'm sure the FFL sees it as going immediately back to MA as soon as somebody leaves the store with it).

If it stays in Maine it's not a problem. The FFL problem I mentioned involving guns (eg, rifles/shotguns at least) is because there is a chunk of US code that dictates that an FFL cannot sell someone a rifle if it's not legal to possess in their state of residence) but beyond that, anything goes. The law is pretty retarded and there are ways to work around it legally, but that's the deal. There are some dealers in other states that may further discriminate against MA residents, but that is not required by law.

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

You can store your legally owned property in any state you like as long as it's legal in that jurisdiction. You can purchase long guns in any state but handguns may only be purchased in your state of residence. The gun has to be legal in whatever jurisdiction you possess it in. You'll never get a MA LTC with a Maine driver's license.

The above is only partially true. Drgrant's answer is the best.

Long guns can be purchased in any state but ONLY from an FFL (if outside your Resident state) and the gun MUST be compliant with both the state laws where purchased and where you are a Resident (MA)!

Hand guns can only be transferred by an FFL in the state you are a Resident (or purchased FTF between Residents of the SAME STATE).

The above 2 paragraphs are Federal Law and thus not a MA issue!

You may or may not get a MA LTC with a ME DL, that is strictly up to your local chief. I would not offer up an out of state DL as ID in applying but the chief may find out anyway. It's been well over 30 years for me and my Wife when we got our first LTCs and I don't recall showing our chief any DL or any proof of residency at all. Probably showed birth certificates only (maybe). However we were both well engrossed in town government and personal friends with the chief so he really did know where we lived and had no need to ask for documentation.

 

[soam]

Hey, I recognize you (at least I think I do based on your situation being strikingly similar to a question posted elsewhere on the 'net). Welcome to NES!

Unfortunately, in the case of the 15-22 you're kind of stuck with buying a neutered MA version since an FFL can only sell you a gun that's legal in your state of residence.

However, once you bring it to ME, you can remove the pin from the stock (relatively easy to do on the 15-22) to make it collapsible. You still won't have a flash hider/threaded barrel, but on a .22 that's not a big deal. Once you've done that, you can't bring it back into MA unless you re-pin the stock to render it non-collapsible again.

As for magazines, you can buy 25-round magazines in ME and keep them there - the MA AWB only applies to possession in MA, not ownership elsewhere. Those magazines will have to stay in ME as well, don't bring them into MA.

So, as a MA resident you CAN in fact have a 15-22 with a collapsible stock and 25-round magazines in ME, you're just going to have to do a little extra work for it.

EDIT: As for the LTC-A/LTC-B issue, get an LTC-A. With an LTC-B, you can only possess NON-large-capacity handguns, which means you CANNOT possess any handgun that is capable of accepting a magazine over 10 rounds. This includes pretty much every full-size or compact semi-automatic pistol, so if you have an LTC-B you are basically limited to revolvers and sub-compact semi-autos.

 

[Edster]

Personally if it was me and I was going to store and shoot my guns in ME. I wouldn't declare residency in MA. Once you do what you can buy becomes severely limited. If there is no car involved therefore no insurance fraud, you can declare residency in ME, but for tax reasons you would declare that you are domiciled in MA. This would be for tax purposes. My son has done this for several years. He is still considered a ME resident but domiciled in AK for tax purposes.

But if you wish to have your Second Amendment Rights severely hampered by the Commonwealth of MA, go ahead and change your residency.

 

[soam]

Personally if it was me and I was going to store and shoot my guns in ME. I wouldn't declare residency in MA. Once you do what you can buy becomes severely limited. If there is no car involved therefore no insurance fraud, you can declare residency in ME, but for tax reasons you would declare that you are domiciled in MA. This would be for tax purposes. My son has done this for several years. He is still considered a ME resident but domiciled in AK for tax purposes.

But if you wish to have your Second Amendment Rights severely hampered by the Commonwealth of MA, go ahead and change your residency.

By the ATF's definition of "residence", MAbyME is a resident of Massachusetts. It does not matter what driver's license you have, or what your tax forms say. All that matters is where you are present and making a home. Answering "ME" on question 13 on the 4473 would be perjury.

The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained. An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.
18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a) (3), and 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.11

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons#state-residency

 

[NinerMaine]

This is really a state law issue about residency first and foremost. Each state has laws about who can claim to be a resident and who cannot. I would start there and look that up to find where you are. But, based on what you said it seems to me that if you are working and are domociled in MA, then you are a MA resident. And I bet MA required you to have a MA DL by a certain number of days. I do not believe ME is going to say you can call yourself a ME resident when you live and work outside of ME full time.

After you have your legal residence question settled, then you can look up the ATF's definition of who is a resident of which state for the legal purposes of buying guns. They are not the same. You can be a legal resident of MA according to MA law but also be a legal resident of ME in order to buy a gun in ME. A MA college student attending college in ME is a good example. But... unless you own property in ME that is going to be a problem if you are not a student.

As pointed out above, just because you still hold a ME DL does not mean you can legally buy guns in ME. It means you may get away with it but you will be breaking the law. I would have a ME family member buy the guns you want and he owns them. Then when you go up to ME you get to use his guns when you go to the range. Then when you move back to ME, he/she can sell them to you and they are yours.

 

[drgrant]

I would have a ME family member buy the guns you want and he owns them. Then when you go up to ME you get to use his guns when you go to the range. Then when you move back to ME, he/she can sell them to you and they are yours.

Depending on how this works (how the money flows) this is straw purchase land and is a bad idea. The ATF is more likely to crack down on someone making a straw than get pissy with someone playing residency games. The latter is very, very hard to prove.... not to mention, believe it or not, ATF is pretty liberal about residency compared to other standards, as long as a person has their crap together at the time of purchase. The former, not so much, especially when stupid people run their mouths to the wrong people.

-Mike

 

[NinerMaine]

Depending on how this works (how the money flows) this is straw purchase land and is a bad idea. The ATF is more likely to crack down on someone making a straw than get pissy with someone playing residency games. The latter is very, very hard to prove.... not to mention, believe it or not, ATF is pretty liberal about residency compared to other standards, as long as a person has their crap together at the time of purchase. The former, not so much, especially when stupid people run their mouths to the wrong people.

-Mike

Please reread what I stated. In no way is what I suggested a straw purchase. The relative would purchase the gun and keep possession of it. The OP would only use it occasionally when he was in Maine and was with the owner of the gun. The OP would never have legal possession of the gun and there would be no transfer of the firearm.

In no way could that be a straw purchase. The guns would be bought and paid for by the relative. The relative would maintain control of the guns at all times with the exception of letting the OP try them out at the range. If and when the OP moves back to ME and can legally own the guns and if the relative decides he wants to sell the guns, they could do a legal private transfer. A straw purchase is the purchase of a gun by a person who can legally buy it for the purpose of the transferring that gun to a person who cannot legally buy it.

I did not suggest anything illegal. It would be a pain in the ass and almost not worth it. But if you live in MA then you have to put up with things that are a pain in the ass.

 

[drgrant]

Please reread what I stated. In now way is what I suggested a straw purchase. The relative would purchase the gun and keep possession of it. The OP would only use it occasionally when he was in Maine and was with the owner of the gun. The OP would never have legal possession of the gun and there would be no transfer of the firearm.

That's why I predicated my statement with "Depending on how this works". Maybe its me but I don't have relatives willing to plonk down $500+ so I can play with guns every time I visit them, so the implication of money flowing the wrong way is pretty obvious. Maybe if I was 12 and had a nice uncle or something....

-Mike

 

[NinerMaine]

True and I would only suggest a manner in which the way it works would be legal. As you stated, this would only work if the OP had a father or an uncle who wanted to help the OP and spend his own money to purchase some guns. I assume, the relative would have to want to own the guns and use them for his/her own purposes as well since they will be his guns and not the OP's.

 

[CCW]

The above is only partially true. Drgrant's answer is the best.

Long guns can be purchased in any state but ONLY from an FFL (if outside your Resident state) and the gun MUST be compliant with both the state laws where purchased and where you are a Resident (MA)!

Hand guns can only be transferred by an FFL in the state you are a Resident (or purchased FTF between Residents of the SAME STATE).

The above 2 paragraphs are Federal Law and thus not a MA issue!

You may or may not get a MA LTC with a ME DL, that is strictly up to your local chief. I would not offer up an out of state DL as ID in applying but the chief may find out anyway. It's been well over 30 years for me and my Wife when we got our first LTCs and I don't recall showing our chief any DL or any proof of residency at all. Probably showed birth certificates only (maybe). However we were both well engrossed in town government and personal friends with the chief so he really did know where we lived and had no need to ask for documentation.

the gun MUST be compliant with both the state laws where purchased and where you are a Resident (MA)!

Can you cite that law? I'd be interested to see that.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Can you cite that law? I'd be interested to see that.

It is in the BATFE Regs for dealers. I don't have time to look it up for you but their regs are online and you can search the PDF. Start here. www.atf.gov

 

[soam]

Can you cite that law? I'd be interested to see that.

Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?
A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms...ons-unlicensed-persons#gca-unlicensed-acquire

NOTE: "Unlicensed person" in this context means someone without an FFL.

 

[CTpatriot]

what about a trust set up for the family, you wont own the guns, so they never confiscate from you.