MAINE NO CARRY ZONES

Can you explain these two in a little greater detail?

DEBATED – CASED FIREARM IN AN OBVIOUS GUN CASE, ABSENT A PERMIT

DEBATED – FIREARM CONCEALED BUT NOT ON ONE’S PERSON
 
Can you explain these two in a little greater detail?

DEBATED – CASED FIREARM IN AN OBVIOUS GUN CASE, ABSENT A PERMIT

DEBATED – FIREARM CONCEALED BUT NOT ON ONE’S PERSON
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My guess is that this is an "experts don't universally agree" topic.
 
PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND UNIVERSITIES
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We have been on this merry go round before. Can you cite the source for Universities? Last time you could not. Can you this time?

It is legal to CCW on a Public Univeristy grounds. It is against school policy, but not against the law. The exception being coumminty colleges, where it is against the law.
 
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We have been on this merry go round before. Can you cite the source for Universities? Last time you could not. Can you this time?
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A excellent way to improve this list would be to put a cite of ME or Federal law by each of the items on the list.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
A excellent way to improve this list would be to put a cite of ME or Federal law by each of the items on the list.
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The problem is that the gentleman who started this thread, has in the past in my humble opinion, shown himself incapable of citing sources for his statements of fact. He makes general statements such as "I am confident in my statements" and "I know a lawyer who told me so" but but so far has not said here is the law that makes it illegal to CCW on state university property. He has done the same thing in this post. He points us to a links page on his website which is useless in confirming his statements of fact. I have asked him again to provide the source and we will see what he provides this time.

If you want to see the prevous discussion it is here: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/61727-Why-get-a-Maine-Non-Res-LTC/page2

A while ago I came to the personal opinion to not take any of his statements as fact.
 
We have statutes posted on our important links page Rob. If you carry on a public university in violation of posted policy and caught you will be asked to leave or be arrested for criminal trespassing. We will be adding the statutes to the NO CARRY Zone soon. The Maine State Police have viewed the NO CARRY ZONE page at our request and found no errors.
 
Title 20-A: EDUCATION
Part 5: POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION
Chapter 401: GENERAL PROVISIONS
§10009. Regulation of public safety on college and university campuses
1. Definition. As used in this section the following terms have the following meanings.
A. "College or university" means any postsecondary educational institution, including:
(1) Any degree-granting educational institution regulated under chapter 409;
(2) Any university in the University of Maine System;
(3) Any college in the Maine Community College System; and
(4) The Maine Maritime Academy. [2009, c. 170, §1 (NEW).]
[ 2009, c. 170, §1 (NEW) .]
2. Power to regulate. Nothing in Title 25, section 2011 limits the power of any college or university to regulate the possession of firearms on the property of the college or university.

Found on our important links page.
 
We have statutes posted on our important links page Rob. If you carry on a public university in violation of posted policy and caught you will be asked to leave or be arrested for criminal trespassing. We will be adding the statutes to the NO CARRY Zone soon. The Maine State Police have viewed the NO CARRY ZONE page at our request and found no errors.
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A few points:

1. There is a difference between linking to the entire statutes and linking to a specific section when citing a specific item. For example, if I was compiling a similar list for MA I would add "(MGL - Chapter 269 section 10j)" after listing schools as prohibited places, not simply point out that I had a pointer to MGL ch 140 and ch 269 on the site. Nothing is wrong about posting the general link, but it's best to have specific cites for specific claims.

2. The ability of someone in control of property to order you to leave or face trespassing charge is not indicative of a prohibited zone, unless the enabling law makes possession in that zone a crime in and of itself (for example, carrying into a posted bar in ME falls into this category and you may be convicted of an offense if caught, even if you are wiilling to leave; carrying into a shopping mall with "no guns" in the posted code of conduct does not meet this crigteria)

3. The last point "power to regulate" is interesting. The way I read it is that this is to prevent people from claiming the right to carry on campus even if prohibited, not making doing so a criminal offense. If the law were interpreted to deny the "power to regulate", students and faculty at a college could pull a Utah and claim the right to carry and not be bound by any university policy.l

4. A nameless cite to the MSP is less that useful, since (a) It cannot be used to assert an entrapment by estoppel defense without a bit more specific representation, (b) They have not issued a formal opinion that you have not missed any areas, and (c) Police agencies can not always be expected to reply with "actually, your list is a bit too restrictive", or to make the distinction between "disallowed by person in control of property owner" vs. "an offense for which the courts would convict". If you doubt that, ask 100 MA cops if it's legal to have a gun in the trunk of your car on school grounds without permission in MA if you are properly licensed - it is, but the vast majority of officers are not aware of the nuance of the "on one's person" requirement of 269-10j.
 
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Power to regulate works in State Parks too.
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Just curious - what criminal offense could someone be charged with for violating a gun regulation in a state park? In your opinion does the power to regulate negate the permit and make it a standard carry charge, or is violation of a regulation something that can be separately charged as a crime? In the case of any illegal activity, there is always a need to file charges under a specific section of law and I was wondering what it was in this case.

Utah is not recognized in Maine.
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You misunderstood what I meant by "pull a Utah". I was NOT referring to using a UT permit in ME. I was referring to what UT college students did; were challenged on; and won in court against the state university system. In this context "pulling a Utah" is telling the college you attend "Your rule against guns on campus is null and void since I have a CCW from this state. I will legally carry my gun on campus and there is no action you may take against me for doing so since my permit pre-empts any regulation you try to impose". I believe the fact that the school was in fact a unit of the state contributed to the conclusion that the state CCW pre-empted the school's policy.

By specifically not taking away the "power to regulate", a Maine student would be unable to tell his/her school his CCW trumps school policy and the school can take no adverse action against him/her for carrying on campus. It does not necessarily mean that violation of a regulation of a private or public university is a criminal offense - which is the question at hand. It would certainly mean the school had it's various private sector remedies (expulsion, banishment from the premises, etc.) available.
 
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MaineCWPtraining said:
We have statutes posted on our important links page Rob. If you carry on a public university in violation of posted policy and caught you will be asked to leave or be arrested for criminal trespassing.
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That's "trespass standard" and by your definition, is not anything abnormal. That's no different than it would be for private property in any other state. "No carry zones" in my mind are places where you are breaking the law for carrying there, not "trespass standard" scenarios.

ETA: Rob already covered this... more eloquently than I did, I might add... Either Maine has a "legally binding no carry zone" in a given place or it doesn't. Trespass standard is not such a zone.

-Mike
 
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"The possession and/or use of firearms or weapons is prohibited in all areas between May 1 and September 30, except where hunting is allowed during this period. Firearms or weapons may be transported across the Restricted Zone of the Allagash Wilderness Waterway, between May 1 and September 30, provided they are securely and completely enclosed in a cover, fastened in a case, or dismantled in at least two pieces in such a manner that they cannot be fired unless the separate pieces are joined together."

This is a rule of the park and violation of the rule is a class E crime, which is the least serious crime class.
http://www.maine.gov/doc/parks/programs/parkrules.html
 
This is a rule of the park and violation of the rule is a class E crime, which is the least serious crime class.
http://www.maine.gov/doc/parks/programs/parkrules.html
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Excellent info, and exactly the kind of detail needed to bring credibility to the answer. Now, to close the loop - do you have a cite as to the section of ME law that establishes this? It would be interesting to see if the law that makes it a Class E is specific to park regulations; applies to regulations issued by any govt entity; or something else.
 
The legislature and governor gave the bureau of Parks and Lands authority to make such a rule. The NRA sent their lead attorney to Augusta to challenge the rule recently. It is still in the works. This has been a three year battle. Attorney Hohenwarter of the NRA and George Smith of SAM were at the hearing and were successful in getting Concealed Firearm Permit holders permission to carry in Acadia National Park at the same hearing. Articles of the hearing are posted in the General section here on NES. I added many sources on our NO CARRY ZONE page this morning. Best, Paul
 
Paul I am glad we can now agree that CCW on University grounds is not a violation of the law. I think your idea of creating a page to list all the prohibitions is a good one. However, as pointed out by other posters, it needs some fine tuning. I think the best thing you can do to make it better is to specify exactly what type of prohibition exists for each one. Right now, a newbie would assume that all the prohibitions are violations of the law. I think it would also help to list the penalty for the violation. Such as the fact that it is a Class E crime in a state park (I still carry in state parks as I believe it to be a violation of my rights and will not stand up in court. However, if it was a felony, I would just avoid state parks altogether unless I had a lawyer willing to test it with me pro bono.) It would be good to list that on Capitol Grounds it is a $50 civil fine and not a criminal charge. As also previously stated, citations for sources is a must if you want the list to be taken seriously and to viewed as a valuable resource. I would also suggest opening it to the public when finished. It would generate a lot of traffic to your website as nothing else like it exists on the web. Good work... it will be nice to see it when finished.

PS.. it is a good idea to state that there is a difference between state parks and state public reserve lands. On the former, there is a rule that makes it legal to CCW.
 

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