Me broken not gun

scooter

scooter

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I was hoping someone could tell me why when I shoot my 239 in single action I shoot low and right,but when in doube action I group very well.I have only been shooting for 5 or six months too.I shoot my 1911SW very well and grip it the same way.The 239 is much smaller obviously but the trigger is still smooth.I should try to get a lesson or something to correct the problem early.Oh and I'm a lefty and the chart suggests I'm jerking the trigger and I really am trying not to.If I didnt ask I'm just wastin ammo
 
More of a guess than anything else, but the essence of avoiding recoil anticipation (a/k/a "flinch") is manipulating the trigger so that discharge is not anticipated. In some respects, the longer and heavier pull of the DA trigger makes this more likely for some shooters.
 
Perhaps your hold is different and/or you apply a different torque to the firearm as you take up trigger slack in DA mode then when in SA mode.


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
Ball and Dummy. I did the same thing when I switched to .45acp.

Load up your mags with some snap caps in there. The problem will become very evident and you will probably make a good improvement the first time you do this.

Also, Dry fire a ton with good follow through.... Keep you sights on the target after the click..

Good luck.
 
Try turning the target around and shoot at the blank side. Just aim at the middle of the paper. This will take the urge away of jerking the trigger.
 
Mike-Mike said:
Ball and Dummy. I did the same thing when I switched to .45acp.

Load up your mags with some snap caps in there. The problem will become very evident and you will probably make a good improvement the first time you do this.

Also, Dry fire a ton with good follow through.... Keep you sights on the target after the click..

Good luck.
Click to expand...


Great advice! You are on the path Jedi Instructarrior!!

Fundamentals are fundamental [smile]
 
If you are a lefty and you're shooting low and left it is because you are anticipating recoil and actually jerking the gun down a split second before the gun actually fires. The reason you might not be doing this is double action could be because the shot is actually breaking an surprising you when it actually fires. This is the most common problem with new shooters. A good drill for this is to practice in both dry and live fire by pulling the trigger in single action back to where you feel sear engagement. At this point the trigger will come to a stop. Make sure to apply light pressure against the sear without firing the gun. Then, apply a slight bit more pressure until the gun fires. Do NOT jerk the trigger. Make sure to pull it straight back until the gun fires.

Another great tip is to hold the gun on target and have a friend manipulate the trigger for you. This will prove that your trigger control or lack of is what is causing the flinching problem. Lots of practice will help solve this issue.

One other great tip is when you're at the range and shooting low and to the right shoot 5 or so rounds and as soon as you run out of ammo in the gun drop the mag and rack the slide and quickly break a shot on an empty chamber. You will see the jerk and the drop in your front sight right away.

Hopefully this helps.

Pete
 
I was hoping someone could tell me why when I shoot my 239 in single action I shoot low and right,but when in doube action I group very well.---Scooter
Click to expand...

I guess I’m a little confused by your statement. When in single action mode you reference where you place your shots, but not the group size. In double action mode you reference group size but not where you place your shots.

I took it to mean (guessed it to mean) that the center of your groups moved (in reference to some aiming point) depending on the action mode you used and I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that group size was somewhat comparable in both modes.

Is that what you are saying, that the group placement changes with the mode you shoot the firearm in, but not the group size (much)?


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
jkelly said:
I guess I’m a little confused by your statement. When in single action mode you reference where you place your shots, but not the group size. In double action mode you reference group size but not where you place your shots.

I took it to mean (guessed it to mean) that the center of your groups moved (in reference to some aiming point) depending on the action mode you used and I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that group size was somewhat comparable in both modes.

Is that what you are saying, that the group placement changes with the mode you shoot the firearm in, but not the group size (much)?


Respectfully,


When aiming in DA I do seem to hit where I want.Its when in SA that where I aim is low and right,and yes grouping is comparable in both SA and DA .
Click to expand...
 
When aiming in DA I do seem to hit where I want.Its when in SA that where I aim is low and right,and yes grouping is comparable in both SA and DA .---Scooter
Click to expand...

I think, with what little understanding that I have of shooting, that if you are grouping well in both DA and SA mode, but the point of impact changes with the mode of shooting, then you don’t have a trigger jerk problem per say.

My thought is that if you were jerking the trigger enough to move your POI, in one mode relative to the other, then your group in one or the other mode would open up and/or even string out.

My guess is that how you hold the firearm changes with the mode you shoot. By hold I don’t mean how you place your hands on the firearm (which of course should be same), as much as the amount of tension you put into the muscles of your hands, arms and shoulders. This is very a natural thing to do if the trigger pull in DA and SA differ a lot.

It’s also natural to hold the firearm with as little strength as necessary to keep the sights on target and of course that differs with the amount of force needed to pull the trigger back.

So you might try, along with the other suggestions in this thread, ensuring that you hold the firearm with the same amount strength in each mode. You might also try only shooting a few rounds before putting the firearm down (unloaded of course) and resting a little.

Of course I could wrong, it happens often. [grin]

Good luck!


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
I stick to my earlier observation, and add that this is an example of why folks trying to learn how to shoot a handgun, or to improve their skills, should start with a .22.
 
RKG said:
I stick to my earlier observation, and add that this is an example of why folks trying to learn how to shoot a handgun, or to improve their skills, should start with a .22.
Click to expand...


oddly enough I shoot repectably with my MarkII with a bull barrel.That said it doesn't mean your wrong.I still need much practice
 
I've been shooting long enough and the advice I gave is the solution to your problem. Take it or leave it.
 
hold the gun with equal pressure. don't do a push / pull squeeze the trigger gently with the tip of your finger, let the gun recoil, don't try to stop it
 
Last edited:
Get lessons, it will save you a lot of stress. [grin]

Respectfully,

jkelly
 
I agree with John and MIke-Mike, it sounds like you are anticipating, dry-fire drills are the best cure for this problem. Make sure you are using dummy-rounds/snap-caps and or an empty chamber. you should get rid of the flitching, you will have to do dry-fire drills alot to break the habbit. Best thing to do is press the muzzle of the unloaded firearm up against the wall, pull muzzle off wall about 1/8 of an inch and practice trigger press with someone working the slide for you... practice this technique til you stop hitting the wall with the muzzle of the un-loaded gun.
 
remember trigger should be pressed smooth and to the rear without disturbing sight alignment, and with very little to no movement of the muzzle. The wall drill is the best drill I find to help shooters of all skill level.
 
drew said:
I agree with John and MIke-Mike, it sounds like you are anticipating, dry-fire drills are the best cure for this problem. Make sure you are using dummy-rounds/snap-caps and or an empty chamber. you should get rid of the flitching, you will have to do dry-fire drills alot to break the habbit. Best thing to do is press the muzzle of the unloaded firearm up against the wall, pull muzzle off wall about 1/8 of an inch and practice trigger press with someone working the slide for you... practice this technique til you stop hitting the wall with the muzzle of the un-loaded gun.
Click to expand...

I have never seen someone flinch while dry firing... Oh no, here comes the recoil...click.
 
Hey Scooter,

I had my P229 at MRA on Sunday and I was shooting low and to the left (I'm a righty). Someone else (CETME guy, thanks) gave me some advice that my finger placement was possibly wrong.

I had my finger too far up on the trigger and was actually pulling just below the second finger joint when in SA. So, in SA I concentrated on pulling the trigger with the pad of my index finger. This pretty much solved the problem.
 
If they flinched when shooting before they started dry-firing, then they will flinch the first couple of times when they dry-fire, thats why i said to break out of the flinching you should dry-fire alot, so when you put live ammo in the gun and press the trigger your muscles will remember the dryfiring.....
 
drew said:
If they flinched when shooting before they started dry-firing, then they will flinch the first couple of times when they dry-fire, thats why i said to break out of the flinching you should dry-fire alot, so when you put live ammo in the gun and press the trigger your muscles will remember the dryfiring.....
Click to expand...


Flinching is from trying to control or the expectation of recoil, If ther shooter is expecting recoil when dryfiring, then something is very wrong. Trigger jerk is not the same as flinching
 
I agree with you on the difference between flin/trig.jerk., but when the shooter presses the trigger they expect a bang an movement of the gun. It's human phsychology, I have seen it happen (flinch on dry-fire drills) I don't understand and I'm not going to try to either....
 
PistolPete said:
If you are a lefty and you're shooting low and left it is because you are anticipating recoil and actually jerking the gun down a split second before the gun actually fires. The reason you might not be doing this is double action could be because the shot is actually breaking an surprising you when it actually fires. This is the most common problem with new shooters. A good drill for this is to practice in both dry and live fire by pulling the trigger in single action back to where you feel sear engagement. At this point the trigger will come to a stop. Make sure to apply light pressure against the sear without firing the gun. Then, apply a slight bit more pressure until the gun fires. Do NOT jerk the trigger. Make sure to pull it straight back until the gun fires.

Another great tip is to hold the gun on target and have a friend manipulate the trigger for you. This will prove that your trigger control or lack of is what is causing the flinching problem. Lots of practice will help solve this issue.

One other great tip is when you're at the range and shooting low and to the right shoot 5 or so rounds and as soon as you run out of ammo in the gun drop the mag and rack the slide and quickly break a shot on an empty chamber. You will see the jerk and the drop in your front sight right away.

Hopefully this helps.

Pete
Click to expand...

This said it all.Only other thing i would say is take a pistol class .( see neshooters Jim bring in the best teacher money can buy,The class work.I have seen very bad shooter shoot great at the end of the class.If you have the change to take jim crews class or randy cain it will change your whole out look on pistol shooting and take you too the next level
be safe
Howie
 
I have taught to various skill levels, ranging from beginner-novice, from rookie-veteran, from just enlisted-20+ years MP/Officers... and have hepled improve their markmenship by showing them simple dry-fire drills.... you might even have to show them proper trigger press to begin with...
 

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