ND or not?

je25ff said:
It is an ND, he said it's an ND. End of story. I think my title sensationalized it a bit. I'm just totally perplexed that he was using pressure on his trigger finger, and even admitted in the video there was tension in his hand doing this, as some kind of method for handling the AK platform. It just makes no sense to me.
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The logic is that he needed material for a Timmy video. If he just explained what finger off the trigger means, it would take 10 seconds and no one is going to pay for that DVD.
 
Varmint said:
Thanks to this obsession with ND, the state will probably take your guns away if you have one. I'd say the antis are winning, yes, at least in Mass. Threads like this aren't going to help.
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So acting like people don't have NDs is a solution? I'm not seeing the upside here- and I'm usually one of the first to suggest that discussing certain things in public is bad, but this isn't one of them. Pretending it doesn't happen does not allow us to maintain the high road position vs. Antis.
 
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I think he just perfectly demonstrated why the methods he was talking about are bad options... Something he was advocating in the video. So yea it was an ND.... and also a perfect demonstration of why he was right to not like the methods he was demonstrating.
 
I had an ND once while shooting skeet because I stupidly kept my finger on the trigger before being ready to call for a bird. The gun was pointed downrange (following what I consider to be the most important safety rule). I learned my lesson, addressed the problem by adjusting my behavior, and moved on - it hasn't happened again. We try our best to avoid making stupid mistakes but if it happens in all other aspects of life, it can happen with guns too - that's why the safety rules are meant to work together and you have to break several to really f*ck up. Travis Haley acknowledged that it was an ND, seemed remorseful, and I'm sure he learned his lesson and it (hopefully) won't happen again.
 
This reinforces why there are four rules, right? He failed on one of them and since it was pointed in a safe direction no one got hurt.

A big mistake/failure/screwup yes, but it doesn't invalidate his entire career in firearms.
 
bill o said:
The logic is that he needed material for a Timmy video. If he just explained what finger off the trigger means, it would take 10 seconds and no one is going to pay for that DVD.
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So he was demonstrating an unsafe method which resulted in an ND? I'm not sure I totally understand. Not directing that at you but at the video and what happened.
 
drgrant said:
So acting like people don't have NDs is a solution? I'm not seeing the upside here- and I'm usually one of the first to suggest that discussing certain things in public is bad, but this isn't one of them. Pretending it doesn't happen does not allow us to maintain the high road position vs. Antis.
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It's a slippery road no doubt, but I think we should always refute the idea prevalent in Mass that if you have an accidental or negligent discharge, the state can take your rights away. Don't go into a cannibalistic feeding frenzy whenever someone in the community has an ND.
 
gearwhore14 said:
This reinforces why there are four rules, right? He failed on one of them and since it was pointed in a safe direction no one got hurt.

A big mistake/failure/screwup yes, but it doesn't invalidate his entire career in firearms.
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Good point. Our Sig instructor spent quite a bit of time on this, saying how if you follow that rule (always point in safe direction), no one will get hurt even if you make a mistake on another rule.
 
Varmint said:
It's a slippery road no doubt, but I think we should always refute the idea prevalent in Mass that if you have an accidental or negligent discharge, the state can take your rights away. Don't go into a cannibalistic feeding frenzy whenever someone in the community has an ND.
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I don't think that anyone here is suggesting someone should have their guns taken away for an ND.... and whether or not some IA in mass strips someones rights or not is not something we can control, so not sure how that's even relevant. You could have a thread with 1000 gun owners suggesting that it's not right to limit rights based on an ND which doesn't cause injury, but the IAs are still going to do whatever they want anyways, and they can get away with it too...
 
It's a teachable moment. Hopefully everyone who sees this video uses it as such, regardless of what the person and company who made it call it.
 
drgrant said:
I don't think that anyone here is suggesting someone should have their guns taken away for an ND.... and whether or not some IA in mass strips someones rights or not is not something we can control, so not sure how that's even relevant. You could have a thread with 1000 gun owners suggesting that it's not right to limit rights based on an ND which doesn't cause injury, but the IAs are still going to do whatever they want anyways, and they can get away with it too...
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By treating an AD/ND as "oh my god, how could anyone be so stupid, so irresponsible?" - we give the antis justification for taking away your rights if you do have one. After all, no responsible gun owner would ever have a negligent discharge, right?

Saying it won't work on antis is like saying don't bother voting Republican in Mass.
 
Varmint said:
By treating an AD/ND as "oh my god, how could anyone be so stupid, so irresponsible?" - we give the antis justification for taking away your rights if you do have one. After all, no responsible gun owner would ever have a negligent discharge, right?

Saying it won't work on antis is like saying don't bother voting Republican in Mass.
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They don't need "justification" for anything, you should know better. Their entire platform is based on lies and misrepresentations. Look at NH and VT, pretty much 0 gun related crimes (or the numbers are so low as to be almost statistically insignificant) but antis whining and making shit up every session to try to take rights away.
 
I just want to know why was the rifle loaded he was not doing firing drills.Reminds me of the training video with the black cop who tell the class that he is the only one there safe with a loaded gun then he goes,and shoots himself in the leg.
 
Supermoto said:
It was a multi focal non-attentive emanation. It can happen during repeated imprudent weapon hand dynamic manipulations.
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I don't know why, but I feel dirty after reading this.

[emoji6]

Well he was demonstrating bad trigger position and he was right. No animals were harmed and he was embarrassed enough that you can tell he takes it pretty seriously.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
bawannabuck said:
My argment is if you think an ad cant happen to you, how will you treat the other safty rules? Why bother if you feel you cant make a mistake.
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Now you're changing your argument, by changing the words in it... which changes the meaning. Anyone "can" have an ND, but earlier today you were suggesting that it will inevitably happen to everyone at some point or another... and there's a big difference between those two positions.

-Mike
 
Most may never have an nd. Not all will have a nd. Of those few who did have a nd All of them Thought they woud never relly have an nd and lasped on bastc gun safty.
 
bawannabuck said:
Most may never have an nd. Not all will have a nd. Of those few who did have a nd All of them Thought they woud never relly have an nd and lasped on bastc gun safty.
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So does this mean you're recanting this statement? Because what you just posted contradicts it... bolded for emphasis.

bawannabuck said:
Anyone with the mindset that a nd cant happen to them is a fool. Only two kinds of shooters-the ones who admit a nd and the ones who will have a nd.
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English is kinda important.

-Mike
 
Varmint said:
Thanks to this obsession with ND, the state will probably take your guns away if you have one. I'd say the antis are winning, yes, at least in Mass. Threads like this aren't going to help.

Should the state take away your cars if you have a car accident? Take away your right to own a home if you have a house fire?

The antis need to learn that guns are dangerous, just like cars, matches and household chemicals, and the potential for having an accident with one is no excuse to deny your rights.
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There's a difference between an accident and negligence. If another car runs a red light and hits your car, for you that's an accident. There was no reason for you to expect this to happen. But maybe the the other driver was racing the yellow and didn't make it. For the other driver it was negligence because the possibility of not making it through the yellow existed but he went ahead anyway.

ND doesn't just happen. It's the result of a failure to conduct yourself with sufficient attention to safety.

As for a discussion of safety and ND hurting gun owners in maintaining our rights. I think it's a lot better to show that we take safety and responsible gun ownership seriously, than to just say "shit happens". One of these attitudes says " we understand the safety aspects", the other says guns go off by themselves.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
drgrant said:
I don't think that anyone here is suggesting someone should have their guns taken away for an ND.... and whether or not some IA in mass strips someones rights or not is not something we can control, so not sure how that's even relevant. You could have a thread with 1000 gun owners suggesting that it's not right to limit rights based on an ND which doesn't cause injury, but the IAs are still going to do whatever they want anyways, and they can get away with it too...
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I would suggest locking them in a room for 24 hours with their firearm and a box of ammo. They pretty much determine their fate.
 
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