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- Thread starter BigGreen2000
- Start date
If CMP is going to survive they need new laws that let them convert mil ARs to semi, and sell those. They should also be allowed to take ing surplus AKs and convert them to semi and sell those.
Without a surplus source their days are numbered.
Without a surplus source their days are numbered.
Sure welding and machining, but trying to think of a more production way of doing it.
Could they machine, or stamp out the pivot hole to a larger rectangle and then a press fit plug. Exact location would be less important than size, so a punch could be used instead of milling.
That would prevent someone just drilling a hole as the plug would fail. Don't need to make conversion impossible, just cross the line away from redily convertable. And change out the fire control.
At that point it wouldn't be any easier to make full auto than any other AR platform.
Of course non of this matters with a change by congress
So I start a conversation suggesting a possible way to achieve the goal, saving the CMP. And I even phrase my suggestion as a question with "Could they..."
But instead of contributing thoughts or ideas, or even any factual information, you just try to shit on me. How very helpful. Tell me, are you always an a**h*** or just an a**h*** here on NES?
And you are wrong. You may know something yourself, but based on your comment, it appears you have nothing to add.
I'm sure there are those that know more about the law and I would hope that if they felt I was way off they would contribute. But that the law is a factor is evident by my attempt to make the lower not readily convertible. And of course by my reference to Congress making a change, you know the guys that make the laws.
And it hardly takes an expert to know that a precession machining, welding and grinding process is going to cost more than a stamp and press. Now I've thought about this process and how to make it even more difficult to convert back. The rectangular plug, and yes the shape matters, could be steel and could be mass produced. As for the stamping out of the hole, the original hole would have to be within the area filled by the plug, but where within that area would be random. This prevents anyone from mass producing pre-drilled conversion plugs, as each rifle would have a slightly different location for the pivot hole relative to the plugs edges. And just drilling the steel plug in place might cause it to loosen on the aluminum frame, make re-conversion just a little more difficult. Of course that is the goal, to make it more difficult to convert back to full auto, that it would be to convert a new lower (ya, I know it's not really that difficult).
Now I'm sure you will show us all how smaaat you are by shitting on me some more. OR, you could make a realistic suggestion on saving the CMP.
You claim to be in Alabama, have you ever been to the Marksmanship Center? That is one beautiful place to shoot, I hate to see them suffer financially. The store is less impressive, but the same goes for them.
jct61765
NES Member
What type of engineer are you? What do you specialize in? Is the machined internals of a full auto m4 lower the same as a semi? I've only been in the firearms industry 20 years. It seems what you post sometimes, you like to hear yourself talk. You cannot ever convert a full auto lower to semi. I don't know where to start, but this can never be done. Stamp and press what? A full auto lower, is always a full auto lower. Congress will never make that change. They cant all agree what a woman is. But hey, maybe your right.
How do I explain to you why it can't be done, if you have no idea what I'm talking about?
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Cap'n Mike
NES Member
Are there any M16s left for the CMP to resell?
View: https://youtu.be/L4sB5snmxFM?si=O1X8S2lF171NcUM0
That time is not paying off.
There are a ton of semi conversions of full-auto firearms from around the world. And there is usually very little difference in the receiver. I have personally seen a commercially available rifle that was sold in both select fire and semi, and there are about 6 internal parts different, and no difference in the receiver. So switching it back and fourth would be just a matter of getting the parts. And this is just one example, many others are the same.
And with the only difference between a semi and full AR lower (ignoring things like lightning links) is the disconnect pivot and the open area in the rear of the receiver. And just as they can manufacture lowers with or without these feature, an existing receiver can me modified, its just a matter of how difficult it is, and for an AR it's not that hard.
And Dude, saying I post sometimes is laughable, most think I post too often, I wouldn't even argue with that, sometimes I do post too much. But I try to make the posts worth something, even if I'm only trolling. I keep away from pointless, useless, empty comments that contribute nothing, like yours.
You comment makes no sense, it already says they need new laws to change what and how they do things. I'm just going to assume that English isn't you first language. It would explain a lot.
Don't know if you don't try, they've passed dumber laws.
So you are conceding my points that you can convert full to semi, and CMP could change, and the laws would need to be changed. Thanks for playing.
And to think, if you had posted nothing, no information would have been lost, the outcome would be the same, and I would have posted less. Next time think it through and save us both some time.
jct61765
NES Member
You don't want any surplus M16 anyways. They are seriously ragged out.
I'm not really sure why any company would want to be involved in the incredibly complicated forging process to create a M1 receiver, when the CMP is sitting on a mountain of surplus M1's.
The CMP has other tricks up their sleeve to remain fiscally solvent. It may, or may not involve firearms that the US gave to other countries that now could come back stateside. It also may, or may not involve a full auto rifle that the CMP already has in inventory.
I'm not really sure why any company would want to be involved in the incredibly complicated forging process to create a M1 receiver, when the CMP is sitting on a mountain of surplus M1's.
The CMP has other tricks up their sleeve to remain fiscally solvent. It may, or may not involve firearms that the US gave to other countries that now could come back stateside. It also may, or may not involve a full auto rifle that the CMP already has in inventory.
Remember….not so long ago everyone said the CMP will never in a millions years be able to sell surplus 1911’s? The same group of people that created the CMP, allowed Rifle and Pistol sales CAN vote to allow it, yes laws would need to be changed.
Do you under stand how laws are made?
Lots of folks on nes (including me) said who the hell would want a beat to snot colt gvt 1911........I still don't want one of those beat to shit pistols.......but there sure is a wait list to get one from cmp.
And you can NEVER make a semi that can't be made into a full, heck even a Garand can be made full. Absolutes don't exist, and it's not the intent. Every semi AR platform can be converted to full, yet they are not unlawful. Using absolutes in your argument is lazy, stupid, and irrelevant.
Do you. It seems you think it takes some missive amount of engineering and machining, that it's incredibly difficult and the information is hard to find.
It's non of these things.
In its simplest form its but a semi AR and 3D print an insert.
A more factory approach would need a selector/disconnect and properly cut bolt, and a receiver cut to accept the parts (the pivot). Might need to turn the buffer and a heavy barrel is a good idea, but strictly speaking those last 2 are not required.
Do you know how a full auto Garand is made? Hint, you already have all the parts and tools you need. See, I can ask useless questions too.
I could get all technical here and point out that AR does not = AR15 or M16. The AR18 was select fire. And like the AR15, the semi version, the AR180, isn't that big a deal to convert. 10 minutes looking at the plans and almost anyone could convert either with noting but hand tools.
Sure, we could get technical on the history of the design, but is that what we are taking about here?
Once a machine gun always a machine gun, if the CMP wanted to pedal surplus M16’s….if the law allowed, Colts approach in the 80’s and 90’s could be used, Drill an over sized hole through one side of the auto sear pin hole and blind pin a steel block in. The reality of it is it will never happen though.
I shot a CMP match in MA with a club borrowed M14 that had the selector welded and some parts removed. Rifles on loan from CMP as I recall….. around 2000- 2001 time frame.
