New reloaded. Almost overcharged & crimping question.

jho

jho

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Need to be very careful. My Sierra book has loading data for 45acp revolver and semi-auto.
I didn't realize there was such a thing as a 45acp revolver so I loaded 6.1 grains tight group which is appropriate for 230gr fmj.

Luckily a friend caught that and I pulled them all out and reloaded with 4.6 gr tight group 1.2" OAL

I do have a question about the crimp, since .45acp headspace at the case mouth, I am very careful not to over crimp. Case mouth spec is .473 and I'm running .469 and still seeing a half hair width gap between the case and bullet. Is this normal? I was thinking it might be because the bullet is set so far in. 1.2 oal is the spec on hodgedon's website. I know some factory loads won't go into my my fnp45's magazine.

Will .469 be far too under the .473 spec? Is my im trying to avoid feed and headspace issues. I will not be able to test these rounds out until Saturday.


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.469 is good. 1.2 is too short. Sierra says 1.27, Oregon Trail says 1.26 for 230 Round Nose. Oregon Trail manual also says, for Titegroup, start at 3.9, max is 5.1. My Sierra manual doesn't list Titegroup for a 230 load.
 
Don't try to judge crimp by measuring the diameter because brass thickness varies by quite a bit. Set your crimp die using a factory round as a 'template', and check your finished rounds with a gage. And yes, 1.2 is probably too short. I use 1.260" also.
 
New reloaded. Almost overcharged & crimping question.

NickJ said:
.469 is good. 1.2 is too short. Sierra says 1.27, Oregon Trail says 1.26 for 230 Round Nose. Oregon Trail manual also says, for Titegroup, start at 3.9, max is 5.1. My Sierra manual doesn't list Titegroup for a 230 load.
Click to expand...

EddieCoyle said:
Don't try to judge crimp by measuring the diameter because brass thickness varies by quite a bit. Set your crimp die using a factory round as a 'template', and check your finished rounds with a gage. And yes, 1.2 is probably too short. I use 1.260" also.
Click to expand...

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1421965891.826551.jpg

This is from hodgdon's website.
My Sierra manual says 5.1gr max and 1.27 oal.

Since I've started reloading, the biggest issue I've come up with is conflicting load data from reputable sources (powder companies, handbooks)

Perhaps the lower max load is due to the smaller OAL? As I do not know the effects of OAL on pressures, I hear a tighter OAL makes for higher pressures.

Should I pull all 100 test rounds or can I test fire them?

I will take a pic of the case mouth for advice on crimp shortly.

Edit:
62f51e9df2f7003216a32f32f522f2f8.jpg
cfe4125ad7ae80cac6c7a05b069ad9c1.jpg

Helloo gap.
And that is .469. I'm less afraid of feed issues and more afraid of improper headspacing
 
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New reloaded. Almost overcharged & crimping question.

As of right now I do not have any factory brass cases ammo to template off of. I do have blazer aluminum .45 I can use though. Will this work?

I found a very informative site that has recommendations on how to set crimp.
http://www.massreloading.com/Handgun_Cartridge_Crimping.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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jho said:
As of right now I do not have any factory brass cases ammo to template off of. I do have blazer aluminum .45 I can use though. Will this work?

I found a very informative site that has recommendations on how to set crimp.
http://www.massreloading.com/Handgun_Cartridge_Crimping.html

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That's my website. You need to get a gage and see if that ammo fits in it.

Go ahead and shoot the ones you've made. See how they work.
 
45ACP revolver (I own one) uses the same loads as pistol. What you looked at was 45 COLT which is a vastly different cartridge.
 
jho said:
Need to be very careful. My Sierra book has loading data for 45acp revolver and semi-auto.
I didn't realize there was such a thing as a 45acp revolver so I loaded 6.1 grains tight group which is appropriate for 230gr fmj.

Luckily a friend caught that and I pulled them all out and reloaded with 4.6 gr tight group 1.2" OAL

I do have a question about the crimp, since .45acp headspace at the case mouth, I am very careful not to over crimp. Case mouth spec is .473 and I'm running .469 and still seeing a half hair width gap between the case and bullet. Is this normal? I was thinking it might be because the bullet is set so far in. 1.2 oal is the spec on hodgedon's website. I know some factory loads won't go into my my fnp45's magazine.

Will .469 be far too under the .473 spec? Is my im trying to avoid feed and headspace issues. I will not be able to test these rounds out until Saturday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Since most stock pistol barrels have generous (large) chambers and pistol brass shortens with each firing, most reloads do not headspace on the case mouth, but rather on the extractor.
 
Since most stock pistol barrels have generous (large) chambers and pistol brass shortens with each firing, most reloads do not headspace on the case mouth, but rather on the extractor.
Click to expand...

The only thing correct in the above quote is the spelling.

Jack
 
Be careful with your caliber identification. There are revolvers designed for use with the .45 ACP, either with special cylinders or moon clips, etc. There is also a .45 Auto Rim that is fairly comparable, at least in terms of load data, to the .45 ACP.
There are other .45 caliber rounds that are not to be compared evenly with the .45 ACP... as mentioned above, the .45 Colt (a much longer rimmed cartridge, typically used in single action revolvers of the old west) and the .45 Magnum (rather obscure and not very common). You can probably find a few others out there too (.455 Webley, .454 Casull, etc)..although some use larger diameter .45 caliber bullets).
Needless to say, do not interchange load data on these cartridges!
 
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I have 2 .45acp revolvers. All .45acp revolvers will also chamber .45 auto rim. One of my reloading manuals has a section of .45acp (not .45 Colt) loads for use in revolvers only. These loads are much hotter than loads in the semi auto section
 
I was loading .380 today and it reminded me that I shot a Taurus .380 revolver last year. It was a 5 shot,about the size of a J frame S&W and used moon clips. I don't know why anyone would want a .380 revolver but someone must. The .45acp revolver data was in my Sierra manual. That's the only manual I have that has different data for revolvers than for semi autos.
 
So I just loaded my first batch of 50 rounds of 45 ACP. I used a Lee Turret Press and Lee die set. I went with an overall length of 1.226. Used Unique powder with Lee Powder disk .66 to get 5.2 - 5.4 grains consistently. Bullets were lead 230 Round Nose sourced locally. Not FMJ. I used a light crimp setting on the Lee crimp dye and had no gap between case and bullet. I went to the range and fired 38 or so rounds not one FTF no jams everything worked well. Groupings were as good as I can ever make 45 groupings.

So for my questions:
Lee loading for 230 RN is 5.1 - 5.8 grains with Unique
Lyman for 230 Grain TMJ is 5.9 - 6.6 with Unique
Alliant states for 230 LRN use 5.8

Why the higher charge for the jacketed bullet?
The LRN seems to tear the paper more than the jacketed Winchester I also shot I am blaming this on imperfections on the surface of the lead bullets in some cases there is a light line of flashing down the nose of the bullet.

Overall it was a good experience but I think in the future I will stay with the jacketed bullet instead of the LRN but I have 450 more LRNs to load up so that will be a while down the road.
 
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SJan said:
Lead is 'slickler' thank copper jackets. The FMJ or JHP bullets have more resistance while traveling down the barrel, and require more powder to achieve the same FPS as lead.
Click to expand...

Another reason or the difference in powder charges is that some manuals are listing loads for swaged bullets made out of soft lead. Soft lead bullets are only good for about 800 fps before leading becomes a problem.
 
jhrosier said:
The only thing correct in the above quote is the spelling.

Jack
Click to expand...

I assume the main point of contention is my assertion that semi auto pistol cases shorten with each firing. This is a fact that you can easily prove yourself, simply measure some cases as you load them. This observation is the product of well over 500,000 rounds worth of reloading experience.
 
NickJ said:
OP, did you get to the range? If so, how did your loads work out?
Click to expand...
Sorry didn't mean to start a thread and walk away from it.
2 Saturday's ago I shot my 1.20" OAL .45ACP 230gr Round nose FMJ 4.6gr titegroup.
Out of 100 rounds I had one catch on the feed ramp of my FNP-45. My guess is that this was due to being undercrimped.

This past Saturday I shot 100 rounds of the exact same loading but 1.26" OAL. I noticed that with the same crimp die depth it seems as though there is less of a gap between the case mouth and the bullet. This is most likely due to the bullet tapering off inside of the case at 1.20"
I did not have a chronograph but was happy with the results and loaded 300 more rounds to the same spec afterwards.

[
 
i found 1.26 just a tad too long for the magazine in my fnp45 tactical, i was getting failures to feed
1.25 works good for me
 
inline4 said:
i found 1.26 just a tad too long for the magazine in my fnp45 tactical, i was getting failures to feed
1.25 works good for me
Click to expand...

I have yet to experience any issues at 1.26 out of the 100 rounds I shot. To be precise they are loaded to 1.258 but If I do experience any issues I will run them through the seating and crimping stages again at ~1.25" since i just reloaded 300 rounds at 1.258. I am definitely abandoning 1.20 for what I shoot though.
 

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