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NH ACTION ALERT: HB1589 ***DEFEATED***
- Thread starter 145middy
- Start date
So basically, it would ban you from conducting a private sale if you advertised it...? Wasn't that an issue of some murk for awhile? (There was that guy in Brookline who had a pistol for sale ad posted in his store that they tried to bag but failed... )
The problem I see is that while "159-E:3 Exception" looks good, the definition of "commercial sale" in
"159-E:1 I" would still apply to the NES classifieds, Armslist, and most other ways private individuals connect with other private individuals to make a private transaction.
Correct. I believe [thread=56254]the Brookline case[/thread] was in relation to NH RSA 159:10, which is applies to being "engaged in the business of selling pistols or revolvers at retail"
"159-E:1 I" would still apply to the NES classifieds, Armslist, and most other ways private individuals connect with other private individuals to make a private transaction.
Correct. I believe [thread=56254]the Brookline case[/thread] was in relation to NH RSA 159:10, which is applies to being "engaged in the business of selling pistols or revolvers at retail"
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strangenh
NES Member
Kevin has the right of it. You could advertise, but if you did, even on a cork board, it would need to be completed through an FFL, who would make and keep a record of the sale as well as running it through a background check.
I.e., this bill is entirely not about background checks. It is about registration.
SO let's get back to hammering the point about government creating special lists of its law-abiding citizenry not being the NH way.
... also, I am entirely amused that the morons who wrote this thing don't know the difference between curtilage, a common term in NH law, and cartilage, a common element of animal anatomy that frequently goes awry in us older folks.
Just another reason to think this was penned by some ambitious flatlander with joint problems.
I.e., this bill is entirely not about background checks. It is about registration.
SO let's get back to hammering the point about government creating special lists of its law-abiding citizenry not being the NH way.
... also, I am entirely amused that the morons who wrote this thing don't know the difference between curtilage, a common term in NH law, and cartilage, a common element of animal anatomy that frequently goes awry in us older folks.
Just another reason to think this was penned by some ambitious flatlander with joint problems.
KBCraig
NES Member
(Sent to NH State Rep Ed Butler)
Dear Ed,
My wife and I have been looking for a nice place to enjoy a weekend getaway as an anniversary gift to ourselves. The Notchland Inn was on our list of potentials, since it's reasonably close to our home in Lancaster, and we wouldn't feel too far away from our kids and pets should an emergency arise.
But, I've crossed your business off our list, and I'd like to tell you why.
As a freedom loving New Hampshire resident, I celebrate the fact that our state representatives can be with me on one issue, and against me on another. That's what happens when we encourage independent thought. But sometimes our elected officials' actions reveal more than just their thoughts, they reveal character.
Your handling of HB 1589 as committee chairman made me question your character. If the people's business can't be conducted in full open and transparent honesty under your committee leadership, then I don't believe your private business practices would be any more trustworthy.
I don't do business with those I can't trust.
I have many friends who don't share my beliefs when it comes to gun rights, but they're my friends because they're open and honest and don't engage in political maneuvers to ignore the will of the vast majority. I can support them personally, and even in business, but not politically. That's the difference between honorable disagreements about policy, and untrustworthy political shenanigans.
Regards,
Kevin Craig
Lancaster, NH
Dear Ed,
My wife and I have been looking for a nice place to enjoy a weekend getaway as an anniversary gift to ourselves. The Notchland Inn was on our list of potentials, since it's reasonably close to our home in Lancaster, and we wouldn't feel too far away from our kids and pets should an emergency arise.
But, I've crossed your business off our list, and I'd like to tell you why.
As a freedom loving New Hampshire resident, I celebrate the fact that our state representatives can be with me on one issue, and against me on another. That's what happens when we encourage independent thought. But sometimes our elected officials' actions reveal more than just their thoughts, they reveal character.
Your handling of HB 1589 as committee chairman made me question your character. If the people's business can't be conducted in full open and transparent honesty under your committee leadership, then I don't believe your private business practices would be any more trustworthy.
I don't do business with those I can't trust.
I have many friends who don't share my beliefs when it comes to gun rights, but they're my friends because they're open and honest and don't engage in political maneuvers to ignore the will of the vast majority. I can support them personally, and even in business, but not politically. That's the difference between honorable disagreements about policy, and untrustworthy political shenanigans.
Regards,
Kevin Craig
Lancaster, NH
If you ever want to find an amendment that a committee has accepted and the bill is on the way to the full house:
Click here and pull up the latest calendar.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/house/caljourns/default.htm
The amendment is in Calendar 9a.
Also, I think there is something this group could do:
The list of reps above could be added to a private page (with limited access, * see below) with new links and as we talk to members, we can poll (inside term is "whip") their planned attendance and votes. We can start to get a count ahead of time and know who is sitting on the fence. (BTW, this happens all of the time by professional lobbyists.)
We need to know who called, who was called, what the response was (yea/nay), do they plan to attend (Yea/Nay) and do they have any questions that need to be answered. (Post in the spread sheet any written response in the last column)
*My suggestion to the moderators is to make sure the members that can view/edit are trusted. (For example, they have been a paid member on the forum for more than 1 year or so, or have been verified by another long term member) We do not want this sheet to leak. The dem leadership will use this information to hurt us.
If one of the moderators wants to call me. 315-9002, I can go over some more details.
This information would be very helpful for Sunday night/Monday.
-design
Click here and pull up the latest calendar.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/house/caljourns/default.htm
The amendment is in Calendar 9a.
Also, I think there is something this group could do:
The list of reps above could be added to a private page (with limited access, * see below) with new links and as we talk to members, we can poll (inside term is "whip") their planned attendance and votes. We can start to get a count ahead of time and know who is sitting on the fence. (BTW, this happens all of the time by professional lobbyists.)
We need to know who called, who was called, what the response was (yea/nay), do they plan to attend (Yea/Nay) and do they have any questions that need to be answered. (Post in the spread sheet any written response in the last column)
*My suggestion to the moderators is to make sure the members that can view/edit are trusted. (For example, they have been a paid member on the forum for more than 1 year or so, or have been verified by another long term member) We do not want this sheet to leak. The dem leadership will use this information to hurt us.
If one of the moderators wants to call me. 315-9002, I can go over some more details.
This information would be very helpful for Sunday night/Monday.
-design
Look, the bill is a bad bill no matter how its sliced and its not only going to infringe upon rights but it will generate a great many court cases in coming years that will cost citizens and gov (taxpaying citizens) a boatload of money and in some cases their rights/freedoms
1. Folks need to badger the snot out of their reps
2. START badgering your Sens over this bill......we need to make it painful for them to even contemplate allowing it to pass.
The question that remains is how many Reps (and Sens) will make the political calculation that supporting this bill WON'T result in a really bad day at the ballot box in Nov.........
This bill will pass/fail not on its merits but rather on the political calculations of Reps and Sens......if you need proof of this look at the NH Senate and how the GOP Leadership is supporting Obamacare/Medicaid Expansion.
1. Folks need to badger the snot out of their reps
2. START badgering your Sens over this bill......we need to make it painful for them to even contemplate allowing it to pass.
The question that remains is how many Reps (and Sens) will make the political calculation that supporting this bill WON'T result in a really bad day at the ballot box in Nov.........
This bill will pass/fail not on its merits but rather on the political calculations of Reps and Sens......if you need proof of this look at the NH Senate and how the GOP Leadership is supporting Obamacare/Medicaid Expansion.
strangnh, noddaduma, others.
Good friendly reps are asking for help with speeches. If you guys and others are willing to help write a 3 minute speech, (privacy, NICS is broken, infringement on disposition of personal property, etc.) please let me know 315-9002 or pm me I will find the speakers to read these speeches
-design
Good friendly reps are asking for help with speeches. If you guys and others are willing to help write a 3 minute speech, (privacy, NICS is broken, infringement on disposition of personal property, etc.) please let me know 315-9002 or pm me I will find the speakers to read these speeches
-design
SpaceCritter
NES Member
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
strangenh
NES Member
Again point out to them that this bill requires the RECORDING of sales, and defines "private" sale almost to the point of meaninglessness. It's about registering people, not about keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill.
Also, Mr. Manley would be well served to understand those parts of the NH constitution are "Articles" not "Amendments" and that nothing in article 3 undermines the latter-passed article 2-a, enacted to make that distinction more distinct, and that if a transgression is forbidden the legislature under NH law, it is not magically re-permitted to them under federal law. Would it not be nice to have those considering our laws have a clue about them in the first place? Then we could have rational disagreements, rather than debates involving arm waving and ad-hoc inventions. I mean that towards both parties generally, but Mr. Manley in this instance in particular.
Also, Mr. Manley would be well served to understand those parts of the NH constitution are "Articles" not "Amendments" and that nothing in article 3 undermines the latter-passed article 2-a, enacted to make that distinction more distinct, and that if a transgression is forbidden the legislature under NH law, it is not magically re-permitted to them under federal law. Would it not be nice to have those considering our laws have a clue about them in the first place? Then we could have rational disagreements, rather than debates involving arm waving and ad-hoc inventions. I mean that towards both parties generally, but Mr. Manley in this instance in particular.
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strangenh
NES Member
That is a very interesting survey.
Takeaways for the current bill:
Fewer than 12% of police believe a law prohibiting non-dealer transfers of firearms between individuals would reduce violent crime. Almost 80% believe it would have no effect, and 70% are flatly against databasing gun sales as well.
Sample size 15,000 from a pool of 400,000 (!) nationwide.
Takeaways for the current bill:
Fewer than 12% of police believe a law prohibiting non-dealer transfers of firearms between individuals would reduce violent crime. Almost 80% believe it would have no effect, and 70% are flatly against databasing gun sales as well.
Sample size 15,000 from a pool of 400,000 (!) nationwide.
DispositionMatrix
NES Member
(The three question marks really sell it.) The we have to do something argument is the one I hear the most and one I always insist on refuting directly. It is an appeal to legislate from emotion and in complete ignorance. She is essentially asking you for validation on her desire to legislate from emotion. Legislation should be proposed to address existing verifiable problems within the domain of the legislature. So I would have asked her this:
I just have to do something is not an answer. Because Sandy Hook is not an answer either. I would have called her on all that nonsense. Legislators should be legislating based on cold hard facts.
She forgot reasonable. "Sensible," "reasonable," "responsible," and "common sense" within the context of the gun restrictionism debate are terms that have become excuses for infringement, and they have been taken right from BCPGV/LCPGV talking points. They are dog whistles. I call legislators on that as well.
DispositionMatrix
NES Member
Bearing in mind the entire bill is unnecessary and is designed to create a "record" for each transaction that they want to codify not being called an entry in a "registry," which is what it is. I fully understand you are just thinking aloud, though, and am not being critical of your thought. But I would be hard pressed to put anything that could be construed as encouragement with regard to the bill into an email or statement spoken over the phone.
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DispositionMatrix
NES Member
I am getting my ducks in a row for this. Regarding "NICS is broken," are you referring to the fact that NICS is broken or HB 1589 breaking NICS?
Stating"...while "159-E:3 Exception" looks good..." is not praise for HB1589
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
I think you misunderstand me entirely. "while "159-E:3 Exception" looks good" is not praise!
People (including NH state reps) are reading the summary and claiming HB1589 is not an imposition because it apparently only applies to "commercial sales", but as the exception "looks good" but is misleading and the definition of commercial sales is overly broad, the requirement actually applies to any private sale, transfer, or exchange of a firearm between individual residents if pursuant to an advertisement, posting, listing, or display.
Phrase things however you want, I'm just noting that there are people (in elected office) who read the summary and think HB1589 makes a broad exception for private non-commercial sales unless they have a nexus with a gun show. That perception is false, the exception is worthless.
Gee, thanks for the advice.
I think you misunderstand me entirely. "while "159-E:3 Exception" looks good" is not praise!
People (including NH state reps) are reading the summary and claiming HB1589 is not an imposition because it apparently only applies to "commercial sales", but as the exception "looks good" but is misleading and the definition of commercial sales is overly broad, the requirement actually applies to any private sale, transfer, or exchange of a firearm between individual residents if pursuant to an advertisement, posting, listing, or display.
Phrase things however you want, I'm just noting that there are people (in elected office) who read the summary and think HB1589 makes a broad exception for private non-commercial sales unless they have a nexus with a gun show. That perception is false, the exception is worthless.
DispositionMatrix
NES Member
Hence my statement:Gee, thanks for the advice.
I think you misunderstand me entirely. "while "159-E:3 Exception" looks good" is not praise!
This^ is what I hope people are conveying in emails and calls to the legislators.
http://www.nhfc-ontarget.org/2014/0...tarting-to-work-calls-needed-to-stop-hb-1589/
Emails starting to work, calls needed to stop HB 1589
by NHFC, Inc. on February 7, 2014
NHFC Members, friends and supporters have done a terrific job calling and emailing State Reps. to voice our opposition to HB 1589. You, the grassroots gun owners are our strength. I want to thank you for responding to Jon’s call for action and also give you a few updates.
First, many of you have sent us responses from State Reps. and several Reps are claiming that you are misinformed and that HB 1589 is not an anti-gun bill. That is a smoke screen. HB 1589 will:
put people at risk of arrest and prosecution for selling or lending a firearm to a friend or family member;
force all sales to be conducted via licensed dealers HB 1589 is helping to establish a national gun owner registry;
create criminal penalties for violating the proposed provisions of HB 1589 such as a fine or jail time.
The state should not be in the business of telling people how to sell, give or lend their personal property.
I’ll be frank with you, I have been in touch with firearms civil rights leaders in Vermont, Pennsylvania, Oregon, Minnesota and Iowa. They are all fighting so called “universal background checks” or bans and criminalization of private sales of firearms. Last year, The Virginia Citizens Defense League defeated a “sell your gun to a friend go to jail” bill. Unfortunately, this type of anti-gun law was passed in Delaware last year! The gun ban elites know that if they can pass HB 1589 here in “live free or die” New Hampshire they can pass it anywhere.
Because of the enormous pressure that you, the grassroots gun owner have put on all State Reps, there is now talk that certain Republican Representatives are working on a “compromise amendment”. This “compromise” is intended to pass the bill in “some form” and is not acceptable. Making an anti-gun bill less anti-gun, is still passing an anti-gun bill. This sort of backstabbing and backroom deal making cannot be tolerated!
Here is what I need you to do. Even though your emails are working, we need to double our efforts and start making phone calls. The bill will be brought to the floor on Wednesday, February 12, 2014. Please call all the Reps. from your own House district, even those who you think might not vote our way. Call them all and demand that they vote HB 1589 ITL, tell them no amendments, no deals, no compromising away our Second Amendment rights!
Click here to find your Reps. and obtain their phone numbers.
If your Representative tells you they are opposed to the bill, respond by asking them to speak against the bill on the floor of the House Chamber. Try to get the Reps to commit to speak against HB 1589 on the floor.
If any of these elected officials sends you an email please forward that email to NHFC.
Finally, please forward this alert to all your gun owning friends, family members and co-workers.
In Liberty,
Scott A. Krauss
Vice President – NHFC
- See more at: http://www.nhfc-ontarget.org/2014/0...-needed-to-stop-hb-1589/#sthash.x1AXzU2i.dpuf
Emails starting to work, calls needed to stop HB 1589
by NHFC, Inc. on February 7, 2014
NHFC Members, friends and supporters have done a terrific job calling and emailing State Reps. to voice our opposition to HB 1589. You, the grassroots gun owners are our strength. I want to thank you for responding to Jon’s call for action and also give you a few updates.
First, many of you have sent us responses from State Reps. and several Reps are claiming that you are misinformed and that HB 1589 is not an anti-gun bill. That is a smoke screen. HB 1589 will:
put people at risk of arrest and prosecution for selling or lending a firearm to a friend or family member;
force all sales to be conducted via licensed dealers HB 1589 is helping to establish a national gun owner registry;
create criminal penalties for violating the proposed provisions of HB 1589 such as a fine or jail time.
The state should not be in the business of telling people how to sell, give or lend their personal property.
I’ll be frank with you, I have been in touch with firearms civil rights leaders in Vermont, Pennsylvania, Oregon, Minnesota and Iowa. They are all fighting so called “universal background checks” or bans and criminalization of private sales of firearms. Last year, The Virginia Citizens Defense League defeated a “sell your gun to a friend go to jail” bill. Unfortunately, this type of anti-gun law was passed in Delaware last year! The gun ban elites know that if they can pass HB 1589 here in “live free or die” New Hampshire they can pass it anywhere.
Because of the enormous pressure that you, the grassroots gun owner have put on all State Reps, there is now talk that certain Republican Representatives are working on a “compromise amendment”. This “compromise” is intended to pass the bill in “some form” and is not acceptable. Making an anti-gun bill less anti-gun, is still passing an anti-gun bill. This sort of backstabbing and backroom deal making cannot be tolerated!
Here is what I need you to do. Even though your emails are working, we need to double our efforts and start making phone calls. The bill will be brought to the floor on Wednesday, February 12, 2014. Please call all the Reps. from your own House district, even those who you think might not vote our way. Call them all and demand that they vote HB 1589 ITL, tell them no amendments, no deals, no compromising away our Second Amendment rights!
Click here to find your Reps. and obtain their phone numbers.
If your Representative tells you they are opposed to the bill, respond by asking them to speak against the bill on the floor of the House Chamber. Try to get the Reps to commit to speak against HB 1589 on the floor.
If any of these elected officials sends you an email please forward that email to NHFC.
Finally, please forward this alert to all your gun owning friends, family members and co-workers.
In Liberty,
Scott A. Krauss
Vice President – NHFC
- See more at: http://www.nhfc-ontarget.org/2014/0...-needed-to-stop-hb-1589/#sthash.x1AXzU2i.dpuf
While she's wrong at least she read the email. So correct her.
I've sent 3 emails to each of my 3 reps. Not a single reply so far...
I think its a good sign that they are reading and responding personally. These are the folks who we need tp write more letters in opposition to.
Unlike my reps, that are all solidly anti and dont care what I think.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Unlike my reps, that are all solidly anti and dont care what I think.
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Boghog1
NES Member
obvoiusly lacks comprehension
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