NYPD Shoots and Kills Groom

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N.Y. Police Kill Groom Near Strip Club
By ADAM GOLDMAN, Associated Press Writer
1 hour ago

NEW YORK - Police opened fire early Saturday on a car full of men driving away from a bachelor party at a strip club, killing the groom on his wedding day after an undercover officer was rammed with the car.

Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said it was too early to say whether the shooting was justified. At least three officers were injured, he said.

The deadly incident stemmed from an undercover operation inside the club, Kelly said.

Kelly said the car also rammed into an unmarked police minivan. Police fired least 50 rounds at the car.

The dead groom was identified as Sean Bell, 23. Two others in the car, Trent Benefield, 23, and Joseph Guzman, 31, were taken to Mary Immaculate Hospital. Kelly said there may have been a fourth person in the car who fled the scene.

Abraham Kamara, 38, who lives a few blocks from the club, said he was getting ready for work at about 4 a.m. when he heard bursts of gunfire.

"First it was like four shots," he said. "And then it was like pop-pop-pop like 12 times."
 
Did they ram it before or after they opened fire? And what the heck did they do to merit the cops opening fire, I have to wonder?
 
From the NY times (don't want to give them more traffic so no link):

Police Kill Bridegroom and Wound 2 in Queens
By ROBERT D. McFADDEN
Published: November 26, 2006

Hours before he was to be married, a man leaving his bachelor party at a strip club in Queens that was under police surveillance was shot and killed in a hail of police bullets early yesterday, witnesses and the police said. Two of his friends were wounded, one critically, they said.

Many circumstances of the shootings were not immediately clear, but relatives of the dead man, Sean Bell, 23, and community leaders, including the Rev. Al Sharpton, demanded an investigation into what some called an overreaction by officers that killed a man on his wedding day.

Witnesses told of chaos, screams and gunfire near Club Kalua at 143-08 94th Avenue in Jamaica just after 4 a.m. as the victims walked out, got into their silver Nissan Altima, drove half a block, turned a corner and struck a black unmarked police minivan bearing plainclothes officers.

The car then backed up, nearly hitting an undercover officer, and shot forward, slamming again into the police van, the police said.

The police response, witnesses said, was a fusillade of bullets by five of eight officers that riddled the victims’ car, ripped into other cars and slammed through an apartment window near the shooting, on Liverpool Street near 94th Avenue. Shell casings littered the street and Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly said last night that 50 shots were fired.

“We can’t say with certainty why they fired,” Mr. Kelly said.

Mr. Bell, who was to have been wed at 5 p.m. yesterday to Nicole Paultre, the mother of his two small daughters, was taken to Jamaica Hospital Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead. The two wounded men, Joseph Guzman, 21, and Trent Benefield, 23, were taken to Mary Immaculate Hospital, where Mr. Guzman was listed in critical condition and Mr. Benefield in stable condition.

Angry relatives of the wounded men said that both had been arrested and later manacled to their hospital beds. They said that Mr. Guzman had been shot 17 times and that Mr. Benefield had been shot in the leg and handcuffed at the scene.

Mr. Sharpton said at an afternoon news conference that Mr. Guzman might have been struck by 8 to 17 bullets. “The doctor told us it was 17 wounds,” which could have included entry and exit points, he said.

The police declined to say whether any charges had been lodged and gave few details about what had happened, calling it a matter under investigation. A spokesman, however, acknowledged that five of eight officers at the scene had fired their weapons and that no guns had been found in the victims’ car, which was being examined by the authorities.

It was unclear if any officers were injured, or if any of those who fired the shots were being questioned. Legal experts said, however, that investigators, at the behest of prosecutors, almost never immediately interrogate officers involved in fatal shootings because doing so might grant a form of immunity and jeopardize later prosecutions.

“This is a shocking case,” Mr. Sharpton, a civil rights leader who has often protested police actions in high-profile and racially charged cases, said at the afternoon news conference outside Mary Immaculate Hospital, his second of the day in the case. He was flanked by relatives and friends of the victims, most of them somber and some sobbing.

Since no weapons were found in the victims’ car, Mr. Sharpton challenged the police to explain what had happened and why, and he insisted there was no basis for any charges against the wounded men.

Earlier at Jamaica hospital, Mr. Sharpton, standing with Ms. Paultre and other of the victims’ loved ones, said he had been called in by Mr. Bell’s family and had protested to the city. He added: “Something about this story doesn’t smell right.”

Ms. Paultre and Mr. Bell, who lived together at 91 Beach 27th Street in Far Rockaway, Queens, had been sweethearts since high school. Relatives said their daughters are Jordyn, 3, and Jada, 5 months old.

Mr. Sharpton said: “Today she’s planning for his funeral rather than his wedding.”

A woman who identified herself as Mr. Benefield’s mother, but did not give her name, said her son had been arrested and handcuffed after being shot. “He’s got a shattered leg,” she said. “And he’s handcuffed. Right hand, left leg.”

An aunt of Mr. Guzman, who also did not give her name, said her nephew had been shot repeatedly. “He got shot 17 times by the police,” she said. “Unbelievable. My nephew is laying up there fighting for his life, shot 17 times. It’s not right.”

Others with Mr. Sharpton included Mr. Guzman’s wife, Ebony, who was too upset to speak, and Sanford A. Rubenstein, a lawyer who has been involved in other high-profile cases involving the police and members of minority groups. He said he would represent Mr. Guzman and Mr. Benefield.

“The family doesn’t know if there are any charges, or if there will be any charges,” Mr. Rubenstein said.

After appeals by the families and some public officials, the handcuffs were removed from the men at their hospital beds.

City Councilman Thomas White Jr., of the 28th District, said he had spoken to a police inspector, Timothy Pearson of Queens Borough South, who said he was in charge, and had been assured that a full investigation would be undertaken.

“I spoke with the family members,” he said. “They want answers. They want justice.”

Marie Gillion, an aunt of Ms. Paultre, said in a telephone interview that the families of the couple had been overjoyed at the prospect of their wedding.

“Sean is a good kid,” Ms. Gillion said, choking back sobs. “His mother is a Christian, you know. We wanted them to be married. The family wanted them to be married. And for this to happen. This is so sad.”

Robert Porter, who said he was Mr. Bell’s cousin and was to have been a disc jockey at the wedding, said that 250 people had been invited to the ceremony and that many were flying in from around the country.

“I can’t really express myself,” Mr. Porter said. “It’s a numb feeling. I still don’t want to believe it. A beautiful day like this, and he was going to have a beautiful wedding, he was going to live forever with his wife and children. And this happened.”

Cara Buckley, Roja Heydarpour and Daryl Kahn contributed reporting.
 
So, either these guys rammed the police van a second time, on purpose, in which case the shooting would be justified, I think, or they were so plowed from a long night drinking at the strip club that they had no clue WHAT they were doing... in which case it was a tragic case of suicide by cop. [sad]

Either way, I can see how the police figured they were under attack. How much energy does a car have vs how much energy a pistol round has? They were armed... but society doesn't usually view a car as a weapon. Incorrectly, IMHO.

No matter how this turns out, it's still a tragedy all around.
 
Witnesses told of chaos, screams and gunfire near Club Kalua at 143-08 94th Avenue in Jamaica just after 4 a.m. as the victims walked out, got into their silver Nissan Altima, drove half a block, turned a corner and struck a black unmarked police minivan bearing plainclothes officers.
Maybe the officers were getting ready for a raid and then these drunks come around the corner and hit the van. The driver knows he's going to be in big trouble so he tries to get away and wham, hits them again. The officers think it's associated with their target and all Hell breaks loose.
 
Maybe the officers were getting ready for a raid and then these drunks come around the corner and hit the van. The driver knows he's going to be in big trouble so he tries to get away and wham, hits them again. The officers think it's associated with their target and all Hell breaks loose.

Unfortunately, that sounds like a likely scenario.
 
dwarven1's posting of the story said they came around the corner and hit a black minivan , then they backed up and almost hit an undercover officer, then went forward and hit the van again.

Sounds to me like they were most likely drunk - totally understandable if they were coming from a bachelor party, came around the corner and hit the van by accident - note that they dont give any details about the parking situation was - may have been right around a corner where the van could not be seen until you were right on it, then when they went to back up they almost hit the undercover guy ( if they had wanted to hit him then why didn't they?) overreacted when they almost hit the guy , and leapt forward into the van again.

Remember that if they are in the city - and are young black men - they may have thought the undercover guy was there to pop them and the second hit on the van may have been a drunken attempt to get away. As much as I hate Al Sharpton he may have a good point on this one...
 
"and struck a black unmarked police minivan bearing plainclothes officers."

Maybe the minivan pulled in front of them to stop them.

If it was believed wrongly by the police that they were carrying guns when they were not, I choose (for now) from lack of facts, to surmise that they were only trying to escape goblins.
 
It appears the driver intentionally escalated the situation to involve lethal force on his end. Does hitting the mini-van a second time not indicate that? The only remaining question for me is... did the "police" identify themselves? Or did they just box him and expect him to sort it out on his own?
[EDIT]
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061127/ap_on_re_us/police_shooting
Shoot first, shoot again, then sprinkle some crack on the bodies. That could be me one day during a sting at my apartment to net an "illegal" gun owner, maybe they will think I have a machine gun or a flash hider or something. I am smarter I guess, I saw the Chris Rock video, but I always wonder if I might panic or be on the phone or something. At least the odds are good that it won't be me in the papers.

It still isn't clear what caused the initial collision that prompted the officers to start shooting. The use of force policy seems retarded. "By means other than a moving vehicle" How much more of a threat does someone have to be before lethal force is allowed?[/EDIT]
 
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Update 3:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime_file/story/474965p-399546c.html

I think that for this one we will never get what I consider to be the truth. Too much, too fast, too many potential conflicts of interest.

Take this Flores character for instance...[thinking]
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,232079,00.html

Okay, Let's compare Flores's testimony to what the NY Post says the cops were saying...

NY Post
The New York Post reported new details of the events, including how the undercover cop at one point climbing onto the hood of Bell's car — his gun drawn and his police shield around his neck — screaming, "Police! Turn off your car! Let me see your hands!" according to sources who talked to some of the cops involved in the shooting.
Notice how they don't say when this fits into the timeline, before or after shots fired and the car started running into things (car may have hit things preceding shots fired). Why was he on the hood gun drawn in the first place? They didn't just up and ram him for fun... Seems like occupants of the car were reacting to a perceived non-police threat.

Flores says a would-be gangster known as J-Rock sought to get involved even though he did not know either party. J-Rock supposedly intimated he had a gun, threatening to "pop off." The situation was clearly not what Bell had in mind for his bachelor party.

"He said, 'Let's be out. I'm getting married. I don't need this,'" Flores recalls.
As Bell and his friends departed, the Guyanese men followed and more words were exchanged in the foyer. The bouncer rose from his stool and broke it up, ordering them into the street.

By then, Flores was outside having a cigarette as they exited. He says Guzman raised a hand toward one of the Guyanese men with the thumb upraised, the index finger extended in either the suggestion of a gun or just a hip-hop gesture that often accompanies outsized threats.

"I'm going to f--k him up!" Guzman supposedly said.

Benefield echoed Bell's sentiment that the time had come to "be out" and the friends headed down to Liverpool St. Flores noticed they were tailed by a tall figure in a quilted jacket, jeans and tan Timberland boots who likely witnessed Guzman's gesture. Flores followed, watching the tall figure get on a cell phone, then climb into a Toyota Camry that rolled up 94th Ave.
The Camry turned onto Liverpool St. Flores did so in time to see the tall figure approach Bell and the others as they climbed into a parked Altima.

Then Flores heard Benefield shout, "He's got a gat!" A boast in a club, or a hand gesture, apparently made the cops fear the same as the Altima tried to flee.
Sounds like the cowboy was brandishing, I remember the brandishing I got in my home. A gun doesn't need to clear leather to be used for intimidation and threating in both the legal and the real sense.

I don't think Flores is fabricating the brandishing occuring as the first act of escalation in the timeline because he is recalling an action and reaction from the parties involved. Could always be wrong though.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2474369,00.html
After overhearing the word "gun", the officer challenged Bell and his friends and opened fire when the car they were travelling in lurched forward and struck the officer and an unmarked police van.
No citation for where they got this.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/474839p-399441c.html
According to reports, there was talk, erroneous it turned out, of a gun among Bell and his companions, who had patronized the club for a bachelor party. Then there was a street altercation. Then, attempting to drive away, the young men rammed an undercover police van, likely mistaking the plainclothes officers for a threat. Then the bullets started flying. When they stopped, one cop had fired 31 times, 16 times before reloading, 15 times after.
But if the media reports it enough that makes it true right?

They also cuffed the survivors to their hospital beds.
 
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I give Sharpton no credence after the Tawana Brawley case he's a buffoon and who hired him to be a civil rights leader.
the cops shouldn't be allowed to have pistols that have hi cap mags go back to revolvers and learn to shoot
 
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So, either these guys rammed the police van a second time, on purpose, in which case the shooting would be justified.

Wouldn't be justified per NYPD rules on shooting at or from moving vehicles.

Commissioner Kelly himself has said as much, per ABC News.

Sorry, NYPD can't justify this one. They screwed the pooch, they need to pay the consequences. These guys may have been drunk, but last time I checked, that doesn't justify shooting 3 guys. 50 shots were fired, one guy was hit 17 times, and is in critical condition.

As I've said numerous times before, most cops can't shoot.
 
Well, if NYPD doctrine is that under no circumstances do they shoot at a moving car, then they did, indeed, have relations with the poodle. OTOH, if I thought I was being run over, I think I'd try to shoot if I couldn't get away.

What really bothers me is the guy who did a mag dump, RELOADED and then dumped THAT mag, too.
 
As explained to me (I have no personal knowledge), the NYPD Patrol Manual has a provision, which strikes me as a bit strange, that, first, prohibits firing at (or from) a moving vehicle and, second, provides an exception if the occupants of the vehicle are exerting deadly force against an officer or third-party OTHER THAN BY VIRTUE OF THE MOTION OF THE VEHICLE.

This seems to prohibit shooting at a car the driver of which is trying to run you over, and that is, apparently, how it is interpreted by NYPD brass.
 
Best thing to do is stay out of New York City. I only go there when absolutely necesary for business. Otherwise I'd never get near that place. It's a corrupt mess, worse than Boston if that's possible.
 
maybe he wasn't a good shot and I think that if you have to neutralize an opposing force then you use what you have. If there were a limit to how many bullets a cop could fire they would only let them carry a certain amount.

Wasn't that in the movie Cobra with sly....they aske him if he used excessive force and his reply was "I used everything I had" or something to that affect....



Another theory could be his ammo was old and we wanted to use his old stock....an opportunity presented itself for him to expend some rounds and he did....lol....jk
 
If you're justified to let one round go the rest are justified as well.

Yup, but this particular LEO should be fired. He can't shoot straight.

31 rounds? All 3 of the guys should be DEAD then. Sorry, but if I shot that bad, I'd be out of a job. Uncle Sam won't tolerate that marksmanship that bad. (And Lynne, remember just who my employer is. Most perps are carrying handguns. Enemy soldiers usually carry RIFLES. We get stressed.)

Hell, my Commander shoots better than that, and it took her at least 5 or 6 tries one time qualifying with an M9 (92FS). If you can't shoot a 9mm Beretta, you need to give up. Last I checked, NYPD uses Glock 19's. My ex had one of those, and they shoot about as good as the M9 (92FS).
 
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Today's update

By Alison Gendar
New York Daily News

NEW YORK- The undercover police officer who fired the opening salvo in a 50-shot barrage that felled a Queens man on his wedding day told his story Tuesday for the first time.

The detective insisted he identified himself as a cop long before he fired on the car carrying Sean Bell and his buddies.

"This cop screamed, `Police!' and he had his shield out," attorney Philip Karasyk told the New York Daily News.

The News is withholding the name of the Brooklyn-born detective to not compromise his safety or the undercover operations he has worked on.

The detective held his fire despite Bell clipping him with his Nissan Altima, said Karasyk, who refused to name his client, even as police sources confirmed his identity. "Once the car hit him he jumped to the side," Karasyk said.

But when the cop saw the man sitting in the passenger seat _ whom police sources identified as Joseph Guzman _ reach into his waistband, the officer fired the first of 11 rounds at the men.

Four other officers, believing they were being shot at, also opened up on the car, Karasyk said. When the gunfire was over, Bell was dead and Guzman and another man, Trent Benefield, were badly wounded.

"The other officers believed the shots were coming from the vehicle," Karasyk said. "They only did so in this case because they were in mortal fear for their lives."

Queens District Attorney Richard Brown has vowed to get to the bottom of the Saturday morning shooting that has outraged black New Yorkers _ and that Mayor Michael Bloomberg said looked like "excessive force."

Karasyk, however, said the five cops involved in the shooting _ none of whom ever fired his gun on the job before _ had no qualms about telling their story before a Queens grand jury.

"That's our offer to the prosecutors _ to waive immunity," Karasyk said.

The lawyer's client is a Hispanic officer in his late 20s.

A 66-year-old relative told The News that the detective is a good cop.

"Only God knows what happened," he said. "Police never shoot for no reason. Maybe he's got a reason?"

The U.S. Justice Department is monitoring the unfolding investigation, but Brooklyn U.S. Attorney Roslyn Mauskopf emphasized it is not independently collecting evidence or interviewing witnesses.

Meanwhile, Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly said police were questioning a new witness. Sources said that witness was China Flores, who had told The News that a fourth man nearly jumped in Bell's car before the shooting.

Police are still searching for that fourth man, who is believed to have left the Kalua Cabaret in Jamaica, Queens, with the victims _ and to have disappeared shortly before the shooting started. Police also believe that the mystery man may have been armed.

All five officers have been placed on paid leave and ordered to surrender their guns.

Life-long friends, Guzman and Benefield took Bell out for a bachelor bash at the club _ unaware that cops investigating drugs and prostitution were staking out the joint.

Two undercover detectives _ Karasyk's client and a female officer _ were inside. NYPD guidelines permitted them to have two drinks; Kelly said it wasn't yet known whether Karasyk's client was drinking because he hasn't been questioned pending the grand jury probe.

When Bell and his pals left at 4 a.m., Karasyk's client followed. Kelly conceded on Monday that it was unusual for an officer to pursue suspects; normally, the undercover signals his colleagues to move in.

Karasyk said his client followed because he heard Guzman say outside the club that he was going to get a gun to settle a beef with another club patron.

Many in the African-American community believe there was a racial component to the shooting because Bell and Benefield are both black.

Detective Mike Oliver, who fired 31 shots, and Officer Mike Carey, who fired three times, are both white _ as is Lt. Gerard Napoli, the supervising officer who did not fire his weapon. The two other officers who fired the remaining shots are both black. Their names have not been revealed.

Investigators have a mountain of evidence to go through, including video from one or more surveillance cameras near the scene of the shooting, radio transmissions among cops and ballistic reports for the 50 shots fired.

There also are more than 50 people to interview, delaying the empaneling of the grand jury. If charges are brought, all the cops' names will come out _ and the NYPD's image will be tarnished.

___

(New York Daily News correspondents Oren Yaniv and Scott Shifrel contributed to this report.)

Copyright 2006 Daily News
 
The detective held his fire despite Bell clipping him with his Nissan Altima, said Karasyk, who refused to name his client, even as police sources confirmed his identity. "Once the car hit him he jumped to the side," Karasyk said.

But when the cop saw the man sitting in the passenger seat _ whom police sources identified as Joseph Guzman _ reach into his waistband, the officer fired the first of 11 rounds at the men.

If that's the case, then it was justified.
 
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