OH - Man Turns Tables On Would-Be ATM Robber

[Kevlar]

An attempted robbery at a bank ATM was thwarted early Wednesday morning when the would-be victim produced a loaded handgun.

It happened at Fifth Third bank near the corner of Karl and Morse roads on the city's northeast side.

Erik Tehoke said he pulled his vehicle up to the ATM at about 1 a.m. to withdraw cash when a man walked up to his vehicle.

"I was sitting in the driver's seat and my window was down. He came right up to the mirror and told me to give me all my money," Tehoke said.

That's when Tehoke, 27, reached for his holster, 10TV's Kevin Landers reported.

Full article HERE.

 

[HooVooLoo]

"I didn't see anything that looked like a knife or looked like a gun," he said. "It was just an instant reaction and I pulled my weapon."

In New England, specifically MA, what would the reaction have been from the local LEO's? After all, based on the above statement, he was not in immediate grave danger of losing his life, body parts, etc.

 

[theGringo]

"I didn't see anything that looked like a knife or looked like a gun," he said. "It was just an instant reaction and I pulled my weapon."

In New England, specifically MA, what would the reaction have been from the local LEO's? After all, based on the above statement, he was not in immediate grave danger of losing his life, body parts, etc.

That would fall under the heading of "self help". Not prohibited under law, but ... discouraged. And grounds for discretionary denail.

 

[drgrant]

In New England, specifically MA, what would the reaction have been from the local LEO's? After all, based on the above statement, he was not in immediate grave danger of losing his life, body parts, etc.

No way to tell without more details. There are all kinds of variables, the bulk of which has to do with who reports the incident first, and who the responding LEO is, what the town is, etc. In some ways this is a relative non event from an LE standpoint, since basically nothing happened. (nobody was shot or injured. )

-Mike

 

[cekim]

the would-be victim produced a loaded handgun.

Now that's American ingenuity... Manufactured a handgun on the spot - bullets and all...

Glad he got home safe - that's how it should end...

 

[Palladin]

nice ending

 

[Reptile]

Would that be legal in Mass to pull out your gun without a weapon?

Ability? Yes, if a large man just a foot from you and you can't run.
Opportunity? Yes, he is right next to you.
Jeopardy? A reasonable person would thing so as you are being robbed.

Common sense says the CCW man can pull a gun, but in Mass?

I do not know if that is legal in Mass without seeing a weapon. In Mass, self help is not encouraged.

Maybe some experts will check in.

 

[Kenny474]

Legal or not, the guy is still alive and well, and thats all that matters from my perspective. But I suppose if he was in MA he should have handed over his money to comply with MA laws.

I would rather save my own ass and worry about the rest later. You don't get a reset button after your dead. There are a lot of "if's" in a situation like that. Like what if he handed over his cash and got a bullet in his face? Self preservation over all else.

 

[Kicker96FS]

Why call the PD in the first place? Nothing happened. Bad guy ran away. I would just drive home and give my gun a good cleaning a bit extra oil for being there for me.

The video tape is not going to be looked at unless someone reports something so if bad guy reports you pulled a gun on him, the video will hang him as all the ATM's have audio as well.

Unless you want your 15 minutes of fame.

 

[Warrior102]

Why call the PD in the first place? Nothing happened. Bad guy ran away. I would just drive home and give my gun a good cleaning a bit extra oil for being there for me.

The video tape is not going to be looked at unless someone reports something so if bad guy reports you pulled a gun on him, the video will hang him as all the ATM's have audio as well.

Unless you want your 15 minutes of fame.

This. Why call anyone, problem was solved without drama. Every time I read "The Armed Citizen" I wonder how many of these situations go unreported that a CCW diffused the situation and both parties walked away, I believe its a lot more than you'd think.

 

[KBCraig]

You call the PD because, as the saying goes, "First one to call 911 establishes that they're the victim."

Believe it or not, some criminals are both crazy enough and spiteful enough to run call 911 about the crazy man who pulled a gun on them, when they were "just asking for a light".

 

[Hillie4life]

You call the PD because, as the saying goes, "First one to call 911 establishes that they're the victim."

Believe it or not, some criminals are both crazy enough and spiteful enough to run call 911 about the crazy man who pulled a gun on them, when they were "just asking for a light".

As funny (not) as this would be.. I think it's good he called the cops for the mere fact that another good guy with a gun story gets out there... there are too many "man get's stabbed for 20 dollars at an ATM" headlines... and besides.... if he didn't report it we would have nothing to talk about.

 

[Pilgrim]

"I thought he had a gun. There was no reason for me to not think he had a weapon when he demanded my money. I was in fear for my life."

 

[drgrant]

Why call the PD in the first place? Nothing happened. Bad guy ran away. I would just drive home and give my gun a good cleaning a bit extra oil for being there for me.

Because if you don't, Murphy's law will dictate that the douchebag that tried to rob you will call the cops first, and try to reverse the scenario. They will give -him- the benefit of the doubt.... after all, he was just walking along the road near the bank and you pulled a gun on him! By not reporting, you start on the downward side of the argument, even if you are in the right.

There was an individual on Sigforum that almost drew down (he didn't clear leather) on a bum that tried to rob him with a knife in a 7-11 parking lot. The bum backed off, and then the guy got in his car and drove home. The police came to his house later and the shitstorm began. The bum actually had called the cops and claimed he was threatened by a man with a gun. He was eventually exonerated after thousands of dollars in legal fees, etc. Most of this could have been avoided with a phone call. Being the reporter/complainant changes the context of the incident in your favor. Don't allow the BG an opportunity to pretend he is the victim.

I can see "not reporting" in some circumstances, but certainly not where you're near a vehicle with your name tag on it, in the US. In third world countries, calling the PD about the thief you just warded off, may be more trouble than getting robbed is.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Another thing to consider.... reporting the altercation might prevent someone else from becoming a victim. If you can give the PD a good description of the guy, it might be someone they already know. Good witness reports have undoubtedly caused a lot of criminals to get collared.

-Mike

 

[Jaxon]

It helps that the police sub-station is on that corner as well.

 

[rdmj72]

If he shot the bad guy, a good lawyer(if it ever went to court) would ask him why he didn't just drive off..............

 

[cekim]

If he shot the bad guy, a good lawyer(if it ever went to court) would ask him why he didn't just drive off..............

Easy solution to that with a graphical/physical demonstration... Watch what a car does when you stomp on the gas sometime... See how long (in relation to the time it takes to pull a trigger) it takes for the car to move any significant distance forward.

 

[GSG]

There was an individual on Sigforum that almost drew down (he didn't clear leather) on a bum that tried to rob him with a knife in a 7-11 parking lot.

There was a guy on Glocktalk in Georgia who drew on a guy who was trying to carjack him while he was parking his car while on a date at a movie theater, similar results, bad guy called the cops first and filed a complaint.

Another thing to consider.... reporting the altercation might prevent someone else from becoming a victim. If you can give the PD a good description of the guy, it might be someone they already know.

It might also let the cops know that those type of crimes are taking place in a certain area to step up patrols, etc.

If he shot the bad guy, a good lawyer(if it ever went to court) would ask him why he didn't just drive off..............

Not true. Ohio passed a "stand your ground" law that includes when you're in your vehicle, meaning if you're not trespassing when you're at a location, you don't have to try to run away before defending yourself.

This is an interesting link to Ohio's gun regs.

The problem with any kind of use of force in Mass. is that there are no clear cut legal standards laid out in the law. Many states have spelled out in the law specifically when you can shoot and when you can't, even in cases where the person doesn't have a "weapon" (such as arson of an occupied dwelling or unarmed robbery). This makes sense because everyone from the cops on the side of the road to the judge has a clear set of legal standards to go by.

It's a nice feeling to know that if you call 911 after defending yourself you won't have your gun/carry permit taken or face arrest.

 

[Kicker96FS]

It's a nice feeling to know that if you call 911 after defending yourself you won't have your gun/carry permit taken or face arrest.

In THIS state, that's exactly why I would just go home after BG runs away, because you will loose your permit for committing a class 2 felony, even though you were protecting yourself.

The laws in this state really need a-changing.

 

[GSG]

In THIS state, that's exactly why I would just go home after BG runs away, because you will loose your permit for committing a class 2 felony, even though you were protecting yourself.

The laws in this state really need a-changing.

There's no such thing as "Class 2" felonies in Mass.

I know of one LTC holder in Mass. who drew his gun on an unarmed guy attempting to car jack a woman, no charges were filed, he still has his LTC. I know of another LTC holder in the same city who lifted his shirt to show his holstered gun to someone threatening to run over his relative with a car (the person was behind the wheel, car in gear, turning towards them) who lost his LTC and was charged with assault with a dangerous weapon and had his LTC taken away, had to fight out both issues in court, and won both.

The issue is that it's not consistent, and anything could happen when the cops show up and find you with a gun.

 

[Kicker96FS]

There's no such thing as "Class 2" felonies in Mass.

I

I got that from my handgun instructor, perhaps he meant class-2-misdemeanor ? Or maybe, just maybe he just was making it up................

 

[kurtb]

This. Why call anyone, problem was solved without drama. Every time I read "The Armed Citizen" I wonder how many of these situations go unreported that a CCW diffused the situation and both parties walked away, I believe its a lot more than you'd think.

Unfortunately, in this state I am sure that people do not report some of these incidents because they are the ones afraid of ending up in hot water for defending themselves. This in turn leads to : a) the bad guys still out there running around victimizing others with no LEOs even looking for them, and b) an even more brazen attitude about victimizing people in MA because the bad guys know if the intended victim pulls a gun - their odds of walking away and never being reported are good.

This of course is my opinion, I am not an expert on the matter but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

 

[GSG]

I got that from my handgun instructor, perhaps he meant class-2-misdemeanor ? Or maybe, just maybe he just was making it up................

Mass. doesn't have "classes" of misdemeanors and felonies like other states do. The classification system is just for sentencing, it doesn't affect much else. It wouldn't surprise me if the instructor was confused, even the courts don't know or understand all the Mass. gun laws.

Unfortunately, in this state I am sure that people do not report some of these incidents because they are the ones afraid of ending up in hot water for defending themselves. This in turn leads to : a) the bad guys still out there running around victimizing others with no LEOs even looking for them, and b) an even more brazen attitude about victimizing people in MA because the bad guys know if the intended victim pulls a gun - their odds of walking away and never being reported are good.

Prison studies have shown that violent crooks are more afraid of armed victims than anything else, and career criminals know how the revolving door works at the courthouse, so the laws don't scare them much either.

I think some crooks might think like that, but I doubt it, most don't think 10 minutes into their future.

 

[Jose]

Ohio passed a "stand your ground" law that includes when you're in your vehicle, meaning if you're not trespassing when you're at a location, you don't have to try to run away before defending yourself.

This is an interesting link to Ohio's gun regs.

As someone with an Ohio CHL, I have to point out two things about your post that are not entirely correct.

First, Ohio does not have a "stand your ground" law. In Ohio you must attempt to retreat from a confrontation (if it can be done without endangering you or those with you) before you can use deadly force while out and about in public.

What Ohio does have is "castle doctrine" that applies both in your residence/ dwelling/place of abode AND in your vehicle when you are in it. So you do not have to retreat from your residence or your vehicle when an attempted invasion is made, and you have the legal presumption that the person or persons attempting to invade your home or vehicle are there to inflict death or serious injury.

That is a subtle but very important distinction. In any case, things here are looked at with the "reasonable person" standard using the knowledge and information available to the person using deadly force in self defense at the time of the incident. As always, your ability to articulate the reasons why your were in reasonable fear of death or serious injury and your reasons for not being able to retreat safely (or attempting to do so and still be under fear of attack) are key.

Second, the CCW law brochure you linked to is quite old, as there are items in there that are no longer part of Ohio law. One such item is the requirement to either carry a handgun openly or to lock it up while driving. Such is no longer law and you can dump your handgun in the center console or glovebox without locking it while you drive, or you can just keep it holstered and concealed as is the norm everywhere else. Another item not in that brochure is that you can legally possess a concealed handgun on school grounds when picking up or dropping off a student so long as you do not leave your vehicle.

In this particular instance there are several reasons why it might be appropriate to draw down on someone who verbally threatens to take your money while in your car at the ATM. The robber being right at your window and able to reach inside with an unseen knife or pistol is one, inability to rapidly drive away (vehicle shut off) is another, and having children in the car is yet another one (I am not giving anyone the chance to carjack me with my child in the vehicle).

Definitely calling the cops to report the incident is a good move for the many reasons others have given.

 

[GSG]

As someone with an Ohio CHL, I have to point out two things about your post that are not entirely correct.

First, Ohio does not have a "stand your ground" law. In Ohio you must attempt to retreat from a confrontation (if it can be done without endangering you or those with you) before you can use deadly force while out and about in public.

What Ohio does have is "castle doctrine" that applies both in your residence/ dwelling/place of abode AND in your vehicle when you are in it. So you do not have to retreat from your residence or your vehicle when an attempted invasion is made, and you have the legal presumption that the person or persons attempting to invade your home or vehicle are there to inflict death or serious injury.

That is a subtle but very important distinction. In any case, things here are looked at with the "reasonable person" standard using the knowledge and information available to the person using deadly force in self defense at the time of the incident. As always, your ability to articulate the reasons why your were in reasonable fear of death or serious injury and your reasons for not being able to retreat safely (or attempting to do so and still be under fear of attack) are key.

Second, the CCW law brochure you linked to is quite old, as there are items in there that are no longer part of Ohio law. One such item is the requirement to either carry a handgun openly or to lock it up while driving. Such is no longer law and you can dump your handgun in the center console or glovebox without locking it while you drive, or you can just keep it holstered and concealed as is the norm everywhere else. Another item not in that brochure is that you can legally possess a concealed handgun on school grounds when picking up or dropping off a student so long as you do not leave your vehicle.

In this particular instance there are several reasons why it might be appropriate to draw down on someone who verbally threatens to take your money while in your car at the ATM. The robber being right at your window and able to reach inside with an unseen knife or pistol is one, inability to rapidly drive away (vehicle shut off) is another, and having children in the car is yet another one (I am not giving anyone the chance to carjack me with my child in the vehicle).

Definitely calling the cops to report the incident is a good move for the many reasons others have given.

Thanks for the corrections, and the info specific to Ohio. My reciprocity might take me up there some day.