Oklahoma man shoots woman trying to steal Nazi flag from his home, authorities say

[AHM]

Sure, but I’m never going to be called for a New Hampshire jury. Neither are the jurors in the case we’re discussing.

But I bet he’d be boned there too, regardless of the wording you posted.

You know,
there's an alternate universe where the case's pre-trial maneuvering
takes so damned long, that some outrage (or no outrage at all)
sparks BLM/Antifa riot/loot/burn antics in Oklahoma.

Imagine the prosecution not rushing to trial,
only to discover that the jury pool has become totally suffused
by people aching to slap back at the Left.

You'd think that it would be a no-brainer
to convict some literal Nazi
who used an assault weapon
to shoot a 20-something girl
swiping a swastika flag
like it was some kind of panty raid at Band Camp.

You'd think.

 

[MGnoob]

A word of advice….Don’t underestimate the worth of someone else’s Twinkie…..People have died for far less

 

[Dadstoys]

if I was defending him I would definitely go with the insane defense. His lifestyle before the incident supports it. As do his actions on the day in question. Any other tactic lands him in a cell for a long time. The law is pretty clear there he f***ed. And for all those with a murder boner for trespassing and petty theft by unarmed girls would it have been just great if the capitol police shot down all the trump supporters for trying to illegally enter the capital, with force btw. Maybe blow the brains out of the clown that walked off with the podium or the guy that took the gavel? Did the unarmed navy vet mother of 4 get what she had coming? Is the scumbag cop that shot her a hero in your minds?

The usual suspects will answer that question just the way you think they will.

 

[Dadstoys]

Again, philosophically, your position makes sense overall. But the devil's in the details. And the law is against summary execution, no matter how you think it "should" work.

As long as people keep their big boy pants on and don't whine when they have to face the consequences of their actions, I don't really have a problem with what almost anyone does. Idealism is fine, but we're in a real world that doesn't work like you wish it does.

It is ?
Hot damn then the guy who shot Ashley should be expecting charges any day now right ?

 

[Spanz]

Well, if she lives I do not think she will accept anymore dares to steal flags from someone else's house...

And if true being shot in the lower abdomen if she does survive she is in for a lifetime of physical internal problems...

a heavy price to pay for stupidity on both sides.

yeah, but kids at a party, probably shit faced....they can do some pretty stupid things without really thinking it thru.

even "smart" kids can make some bad decisions at a party.

 

[Picton]

It is ?
Hot damn then the guy who shot Ashley should be expecting charges any day now right ?

I wish.

He‘s “special.”

 

[MGnoob]

if I was defending him I would definitely go with the insane defense. His lifestyle before the incident supports it. As do his actions on the day in question. Any other tactic lands him in a cell for a long time. The law is pretty clear there he f***ed. And for all those with a murder boner for trespassing and petty theft by unarmed girls would it have been just great if the capitol police shot down all the trump supporters for trying to illegally enter the capital, with force btw. Maybe blow the brains out of the clown that walked off with the podium or the guy that took the gavel? Did the unarmed navy vet mother of 4 get what she had coming? Is the scumbag cop that shot her a hero in your minds?

It’s not a matter of right and wrong ..It’s about legal or illegal. We don’t live in a country of laws anyway…

As far as them shooting people at the fake insurrection. I’m surprised a whole bunch people didnt get shot. I’m not even convinced that girl did get shot…
If I don’t see it, I rarely believe it. Am I supposed to believe it because it was on the news. There’s some Internet chatter about it.

Doing dumb shit and getting shot isnt really news anyway…That goes for the fake insurrection and this little girl got shot for steal the flag

 

[BigTimber]

It’s not a matter of right and wrong ..It’s about legal or illegal. We don’t live in a country of laws anyway…

As far as them shooting people at the fake insurrection. I’m surprised a whole bunch people didnt get shot. I’m not even convinced that girl did get shot…
If I don’t see it, I rarely believe it. Am I supposed to believe it because it was on the news. There’s some Internet chatter about it.

Doing dumb shit and getting shot isnt really news anyway…That goes for the fake insurrection and this little girl got shot for steal the flag

Ummm ok. Not sure of the point your trying to making here? But I’ll give it a whirl. As far as legal and illegal there is no affirmative defense in Oklahoma for shooting someone outside your home stealing property. It’s a pretty open and shut case for this guy. And you can watch Ashley Babbitt get shot on Video from about 2 feet away if your not sure it really happened, for what ever that’s worth. And I agree that was no insurrection, it was a riot. And a weak one at that compared to the year and a half long riots the left has been perpetrating.

 

[babygorilla]

if I was defending him I would definitely go with the insane defense. His lifestyle before the incident supports it. As do his actions on the day in question. Any other tactic lands him in a cell for a long time. The law is pretty clear there he f***ed. And for all those with a murder boner for trespassing and petty theft by unarmed girls would it have been just great if the capitol police shot down all the trump supporters for trying to illegally enter the capital, with force btw. Maybe blow the brains out of the clown that walked off with the podium or the guy that took the gavel? Did the unarmed navy vet mother of 4 get what she had coming? Is the scumbag cop that shot her a hero in your minds?

Someone doesn't understand the huge difference between public and private property. Oh, and you (and I and Every OTHER taxpayer) technically own that podium, the building, the land, etc.

 

[babygorilla]

LoL, Wow!, anger issues much. Touched a cord huh? Deep down you wish you pulled the trigger on the unarmed little girl don’t you? Home invaders!!! Murderers marauding in the dead of night!! we’re talking about a unarmed 20 something year old female running up to a guys house from a pool party across the street and snatching a Flag while he’s lying in wait with a rifle. Then your hero shoots her in the back while she’s running away. Maybe she was going for her RPG !!!? He must have terrified!! For his life. Get a grip murder boner boy. Your poor nazi’s buddy is cooked. I was merely curious were the murder lust on some of us here over nothing Comes from. I think my question has been answered. You’re just a couple pathetic little angry men.

I love how NES brings out all the armchair quarterbacks that have superhuman abilities.

 

[BigTimber]

Someone doesn't understand the huge difference between public and private property. Oh, and you (and I and Every OTHER taxpayer) technically own that podium, the building, the land, etc.

Yup we do, but it doesn’t give us the freedom to steal or destroy it.

 

[babygorilla]

Yup we do, but it doesn’t give us the freedom to steal or destroy it.

Did your hard earned money pay for it? Yep. As did mine. As did the thief.
Should they be charged? Yes.
But should someone lose their life as you suggested in defense of a publicly owned object partially owned by the thief? No, because it would be an agent of .gov doing the killing.
Again, you armchair quarterback quite a lot. And must be able to see, hear, think, and react faster than superman.....
"Hindsight is always 20/20, but looking back it's still a bit fuzzy".

 

[BigTimber]

Did your hard earned money pay for it? Yep. As did mine. As did the thief.
Should they be charged? Yes.
But should someone lose their life as you suggested in defense of a publicly owned object partially owned by the thief? No, because it would be an agent of .gov doing the killing.
Again, you armchair quarterback quite a lot. And must be able to see, hear, think, and react faster than superman.....
"Hindsight is always 20/20, but looking back it's still a bit fuzzy".

So just to be clear you’re cool with shooting an unarmed 20 year old girl for trespassing and petty theft?
of course as long as it’s done without due process by the emotionally affected aggrieved private party?

 

[babygorilla]

So just to be clear you’re cool with shooting an unarmed 20 year old girl for trespassing and petty theft?
of course as long as it’s done without due process by the emotionally affected aggrieved private party?

Once again, you prove you are Superman.
If you go back in this thread, you will see my thoughts on this matter.

 

[BigTimber]

Sorry I don’t pay you much mind as important as you are.

 

[MGnoob]

Ummm ok. Not sure of the point your trying to making here? But I’ll give it a whirl. As far as legal and illegal there is no affirmative defense in Oklahoma for shooting someone outside your home stealing property. It’s a pretty open and shut case for this guy. And you can watch Ashley Babbitt get shot on Video from about 2 feet away if your not sure it really happened, for what ever that’s worth. And I agree that was no insurrection, it was a riot. And a weak one at that compared to the year and a half long riots the left has been perpetrating.

I’m not sure I really had a point. I might’ve missed read above to I thought somebody called out a statute where you could shoot somebody over your property. Perhaps that was from a different state? Either way I don’t think shooting the girl is an appropriate response. But stealing some neo-Nazis flag in my mind Has some probability of getting you shot.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

Stopped reading at "Oklahoma".

 

[AHM]

... As far as legal and illegal there is no affirmative defense in Oklahoma for shooting someone outside your home stealing property. It’s a pretty open and shut case for this guy. ...

Hold on. If the Oklahoma constitution says,

The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his​

home, person, or property, ..., shall never be prohibited; ...​

there's plenty of grist for making the prosecution's life difficult.
Prosecutors may win the case, but they won't beat the ride.

 

[namedpipes]

I love how NES brings out all the armchair quarterbacks that have superhuman abilities.

I dunno about you schmucks, but I'm a superhero. I have a business card to prove it.

 

[namedpipes]

So just to be clear you’re cool with shooting an unarmed 20 year old girl for trespassing and petty theft?
of course as long as it’s done without due process by the emotionally affected aggrieved private party?

Without picking a side in this dog fight, due process applies to how the government deals with defendants, not how individuals deal with each other

 

[MGnoob]

Hold on. If the Oklahoma constitution says,

The right of a citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his​

home, person, or property, ..., shall never be prohibited; ...​

there's plenty of grist for making the prosecution's life difficult.
Prosecutors may win the case, but they won't beat the ride.

That’s what I was kind of getting out I think or at least what I read.
The main issue is even if he was legally justified in shooting somebody over a flag…Because he’s a pretty unlikable douche nozzle who shot a woman who was unarmed. Even if it is legal he’s f***ed.
He might be better off bringing it before a judge than a jury or have a real lawyer nip it in the butt before it goes that far….

I wouldn’t want to be in his shoes even if it was the American flag that got stolen

 

[Dadstoys]

Yup we do, but it doesn’t give us the freedom to steal or destroy it.

Throw on a BLM t-shirt and it does.

 

[fshalor]

1. Free speech. 2. Private property. 3. redneck with very very shallow gene pool.

Personally I believe you should be legally allowed to defend property, even $0.01 worth of property with deadly force so clean shoot here for me. But the shooter can get ball cancer and die slow for all I care.

I tried to make that distinction between "allowed to" and "should" clear in my other post, but I was a bit to subtle.

Agreed.
But be careful when using "allowed", as it implies that permission is required.

Remember the founders were very clear about such distinctions. Just as they were clear about there being consequences when lines were crossed.

I'm with you. Defence of property should not require a permission slip. The shooter should get ball cancer and die.

 

[jhblaze1]

I tried to make that distinction between "allowed to" and "should" clear in my other post, but I was a bit to subtle.

Agreed.
But be careful when using "allowed", as it implies that permission is required.

Remember the founders were very clear about such distinctions. Just as they were clear about there being consequences when lines were crossed.

I'm with you. Defence of property should not require a permission slip. The shooter should get ball cancer and die.

by allowed I just meant it would be legal. I guess I was being redundant in saying "legally allowed" when what I meant was "it should be legal to shoot a thief caught in the act of stealing your shit".

The only involvement of the police should be to come collect the bodies.

 

[Dadstoys]

My take on it is, don't be a thief and bad shit won't happen to you .
If you walk up to me and ask me for a stick of gum , I'll share.
Walk up and demand it or try and take it from me and chewing gum may not be an option for you for a while.

Nobody's situation is the same.
Some guy who spent three months working overtime at some shitty minimum wage job to afford to buy a 19" TV is more likely to kill your ass for trying to steal it than the guy who has 62" flat screens in every room of the house.
Or maybe not if the guy with the 62" TVs busted his ass working 90 hours a week to get what he has.

It's a bit disturbing how many people right here on this board follow the communist doctrine of you own nothing.
It all belongs to everyone else .

 

[Picton]

It's a bit disturbing how many people right here on this board follow the communist doctrine of you own nothing.
It all belongs to everyone else .

You‘re being obtuse.

“I don’t think this guy‘s response was reasonable in this situation” is VERY different from “you own nothing.”

 

[Dadstoys]

You‘re being obtuse.

“I don’t think this guy‘s response was reasonable in this situation” is VERY different from “you own nothing.”

Perhaps your version of "reasonable" isn't the universal norm.

Pretty sure I'm not going to shoot some gal stealing a flag on my property , but if she wants to be a trespasser and thief then she's hanging it out there in the breeze for someone who will.
That's the game, play at your own risk.

Can I assume that you will meekly hand over your guns should it come to it ?
They are only " property " right ?

I'm curious , where is the line ?
What can I come take that belongs to you before you react ?

 

[Wooderson]

“I don’t think this guy‘s response was reasonable in this situation” is VERY different from “you own nothing.”

The thief didn't simply steal property, but committed a civil rights violation; she caught a dose of King Solomon's wisdom for the exchange.

An actual DOJ would already have her in Federal court.

 

[Picton]

Perhaps your version of "reasonable" isn't the universal norm.

Pretty sure I'm not going to shoot some gal stealing a flag on my property , but if she wants to be a trespasser and thief then she's hanging it out there in the breeze for someone who will.
That's the game, play at your own risk.

Can I assume that you will meekly hand over your guns should it come to it ?
They are only " property " right ?

I'm curious , where is the line ?
What can I come take that belongs to you before you react ?

All of this has been asked and answered a couple times in the past 300 posts.

And sure, my definition of “reasonable” might not be yours. That’s understandable, though in this case it sounds like we’re on the same page. But most laws and courts use “reasonable” as a standard for juries to consider, so ultimately it’s on them. As it should be.

 

[Randy Lahey]

How do you shoot somebody in the "lower abdomen" while they are running away?

I think it just ended up there