"Open Carry" Verses "Concealed Carry" in Salem

[M1911]

A little searching will net the name of the good gentleman who lost his LTC due to a blowing open jacket.

I'd say that Captain Jodoin doesn't know what he's talking about.

And I would agree with dwarven1.

On an April afternoon seven years ago, Joseph Landers walked out of the M&M Food Shoppe on High Street with a sub sandwich in one hand, a pizza in another, and a stainless steel handgun holstered on his shoulder underneath his coat.

To Landers, a then 49-year-old retired machinist, it was just a normal day in which he planned have lunch with his father at home. The gun was something he carried regularly for protection.

But the trip to pick up lunch turned out to be his last as a licensed gun holder in Massachusetts.

Landers' coat was not entirely zipped up that day, and when the wind blew it open, a Dedham Police officer across the street zoomed in and noticed the gun. Upon request by the officer, Landers produced a valid five-year license issued in 1995 to carry the gun. But the problem was, state law required that he keep the weapon concealed.

While the officer let Landers go without an arrest, the Adams Street resident soon after received notice from Dedham Police Chief Dennis Teehan that his Class A license to carry firearms had been revoked due to the incident.

 

[firestorm]

Deleted

 

[vellnueve]

dwarven and M1911, to be fair, he said he didn't know of any such case, not that it hadn't happened.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Even then, if you OC'ed in a place where the PD wasn't happy about it, they could potentially bring political pressure to bear on your local PD and get them to change their stand.

. . . or worse yet, apply political pressure to "close the OC loophole" and make a law that specifically prohibits it!

In a shithole state like MA, this is how new anti-gun/anti-Constitutional law is made and I'm not kidding.

To make it simple, in most states, unless the law proscribes something, it is LEGAL. No ifs ands or buts.

In this dump, our esteemed rulers must ALLOW something in written law before anything is considered legal.

Therefore, if it is not specifically permitted under statute, just about any cop will "consider" it illegal.

Sadly true!

 

[Kicker96FS]

Quote:
While the officer let Landers go without an arrest, the Adams Street resident soon after received notice from Dedham Police Chief Dennis Teehan that his Class A license to carry firearms had been revoked due to the incident. [/quote]


I would think that if this guy wanted his LTC he could have gotten a lawyer and fought this because that is pure BS.

I have a friend that has his LTC with a no-concealed restriction from Revere (long story) so he Carry's open. Yeah, he has been hassled by cops a lot but he has his LTC and continues to do so.

 

[Kaos116]

Before finding NES, I used to OC. But after reading about possible 'suitability' issues, I stopped. I had never been approached by the Police. I had never noticed anyone staring or whispering. I don't think many people noticed.

Living in a green town, I have been tossing the idea around of OCing again.

 

[Half Cocked]

Email Response:

I do not know of anyone who has lost their license to carry because they complied with the law and carried concealed only to be spotted and reported for a high riding shirt.
Regards, Captain John Jodoin

I am not sure of the purpose of your thread.

Is it to get opinions on open carry in Ma?

Is it to inquire to it's legality?

or

Is it to shit on the Captain who was nice enough to issue you a class "A" LTC and took the time to respond cordially (albeit wrongly) to an e-mail which he thought was a question important to you not knowing that you were going to thank him by posting it on the internet for others to ridicule?

I am thinking it is the latter because the question has been answered here repeatedly. I would be disappointed to think that the purpose of the e-mail was to just get a response for purposes of internet ridicule.

Please tell me I am wrong.....

 

[Len-2A Training]

I would think that if this guy wanted his LTC he could have gotten a lawyer and fought this because that is pure BS.

I have a friend that has his LTC with a no-concealed restriction from Revere (long story) so he Carry's open. Yeah, he has been hassled by cops a lot but he has his LTC and continues to do so.

You need to read the history of this case. If you think that judges are unbiased wrt guns in MA, you're living in DisneyWorld!

An Atty worked with him and lost initially and on appeal. It took a ton of money, >4 years and a "negotiated deal" that after that chief retired, his successor would issue Joe a LTC.

 

[dagwag77]

I am not sure of the purpose of your thread.

Is it to get opinions on open carry in Ma?

Is it to inquire to it's legality?

or

Is it to shit on the Captain who was nice enough to issue you a class "A" LTC and took the time to respond cordially (albeit wrongly) to an e-mail which he thought was a question important to you not knowing that you were going to thank him by posting it on the internet for others to ridicule?

I am thinking it is the latter because the question has been answered here repeatedly. I would be disappointed to think that the purpose of the e-mail was to just get a response for purposes of internet ridicule.

Please tell me I am wrong.....

I think it was to share with us what an actual PD said on the matter, rather than our speculations based on cases that happened and our own interpretations of MGLs. He doesn't seem to be inquiring, just sharing.

 

[pdm]

If it's illegal, then the cops ought to wait for the armored car guy that refills the ATM at my work.

 

[M1911]

I would think that if this guy wanted his LTC he could have gotten a lawyer and fought this because that is pure BS.

He did. He spent many years fighting it.

You must realize that the law gives police chiefs almost complete discretion to issue or revoke LTCs, and judges are both anti-gun and very deferential to the chiefs. Don't expect to get recourse in MA courts.

 

[Twigg]

Someone should write him a letter asking how he feels about "Concealed Carry" badges.

 

[MACGYVR]

Please dont play games in Salem with Ocing.

I like my LTC in Salem and if one decides to OC to "test the waters" they will surely freak out the tourists which will result in the full force of the Salem PD showing up and it will not be a good day for you. And then they will revoke all the LTCs as the liberals ask "how could this happen"

Sounds crazy right? But were in mass. Can happen, may happen. They are free to do what they want.

Mass is a concealed carry state. It is full of liberals scared of shiny things that go bang.

If you feel the need to get your rocks off Ocing then go north to land of the free in NH and carry all you want. You will get harrassed (ask Doobie) but you wont go to jail and lose your LTC.

 

[drgrant]

If it's illegal, then the cops ought to wait for the armored car guy that refills the ATM at my work.

And you just figured out the way to OC in MA with minimal disturbance. Don a uniform of "Heywood Jablome Security INC" with a crest or badge or some crap on it, and nobody will likely bother you. Go figure.

-Mike

 

[namedpipes]

Yes, but this particular topic has only been rehashed about 65,536 times with more or less EXACTLY the same opinions and outcomes. . . .

Somebody is probably a programmer...

 

[jdubois]

Somebody is probably a programmer...

Yeah, but he just overran his unsigned short by one bit

 

[Len-2A Training]

Somebody is probably a programmer...

Yeah, but he just overran his unsigned short by one bit

Yes, but nobody claimed that he was a good one,

 

[drgrant]

I'm not a programmer, (although, many moons ago I knew how to use basic and pascal) but it's kind of like the Marshall stack in Spinal Tap... "These go to eleven."

-Mike

 

[HooVooLoo]

Nigel: This is a top to a, you know, what we use in the office, but it's very...very special because if you can see...
Marty: Yeah...
Nigel: ...the bits all go to 65,536 Look...right across the keyboard.
Marty: Ahh...oh, I see....
Nigel: 65,536…65,536…65,536…
Marty: ...and most of these computers go up to 65,535....
Nigel: Exactly.
Marty: Does that mean it's...faster? Is it any faster?
Nigel: Well, it's one faster, isn't it? It's not 65,535. You see, most...most blokes, you know, will be running at 65,535. You're on 65,535 here...all the way up...all the way up....
Marty: Yeah....
Nigel: ...all the way up. You're on 65,535 on your keyboard...where can you go from there? Where?
Marty: I don't know....
Nigel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is if we need that extra...push over the maximum clock speed...you know what we do?
Marty: Put it up to 65,536.
Nigel: 65,536. Exactly. One faster.
Marty: Why don't you just make 65,535 faster and make 65,535 be the fastest bit...and make that a little faster?
Nigel: ...these go to 65,536.

 

[dwarven1]

Is it to shit on the Captain who was nice enough to issue you a class "A" LTC and took the time to respond cordially (albeit wrongly) to an e-mail which he thought was a question important to you not knowing that you were going to thank him by posting it on the internet for others to ridicule?

Yes, after all it's not like you have a RIGHT to own or carry firearms in MA... you should be on your knees thanking the nice Captain for graciously allowing you the privilege.

 

[Half Cocked]

Yes, after all it's not like you have a RIGHT to own or carry firearms in MA... you should be on your knees thanking the nice Captain for graciously allowing you the privilege.

I am not agreeing with it......but there are many Towns where it would not happen so those who live there should be thankful.

 

[dwarven1]

I am not agreeing with it......but there are many Towns where it would not happen so those who live there should be thankful.

Personally, I think that they should be thankful that they have a chief that understands the laws and the Constitution... which, it seems to me, the chief in question does not.

 

[SteelShooter]

And you just figured out the way to OC in MA with minimal disturbance. Don a uniform of "Heywood Jablome Security INC" with a crest or badge or some crap on it, and nobody will likely bother you. Go figure.

-Mike

+1

 

[Raoul Duke]

Personally, I think that they should be thankful that they have a chief that understands the laws and the Constitution... which, it seems to me, the chief in question does not.

Ross, you (and I, and many others) often make the mistake of thinking that Chief X from X town doesn't understand the Constitution and thus fails to act accordingly.

But we're wrong.

They understand perfectly well. They just don't give a shit.

Guns = Power. When was the last time you saw someone share power willingly? Gosh, if we sheeple weren't under their boot, who knows what might happen?