Peel vs Crush Washer

[Hardwired]

Has anyone had luck using Peel washers where you need to turn it close to an entire turn to get the compensator aligned correctly?

The VLTOR compensator devices come with a stainless peel washer which looks flat on both sides. My fear is that to get it to take nearly another turn that the force will be excessive on the threaded barrel.

The procedure I believe is as follows:
1) Set the torque wrench to 15ft-lbs and torque the device on.
2) Then bump up the torque wrench (5ft-lb steps?) and torque until the muzzle device is aligned to the manufacture spec (ie timed to 6 o'clock). What would be excessive torque - not to exceed?


If I use a peel/crush washer can someone provide the correct guidelines:
1) Can you reuse a previously used crush washer? How about a peel washer.
2) Narrow end goes toward the muzzle end against the muzzle device.

 

[widnerkj]

Peel/ crush washers are single use

 

[01SVTvert]

Peel washers work fine, just peel a section off to adjust, it is NOT a crush washer. Crush washers you repeatedly torque and the washer slowly collapses, per Se, and allow further clocking.

 

[exo]

I prefer crush washers. Don't try and align it all in one go, unless it just happens to line up. I torque, loosen, repeat until it's aligned.

And make sure you clamp up on the barrel, not the receiver or your handguards. Use something that will protect the barrel from scratches etc. I have some aluminum barrel vise blocks and I usually stick some leather in there too.

 

[jasons]

The spec if you use a peel washer is 15-20 ft/lbs. It's unclear from your post if you actually took a few layers off or not, but that's what you have to do. The peel washer can be re-used as long as the compensator times up within the proper torque range.

Crush washers are certainly easier to use, but I prefer using peel washers. If you do use a crush washer, keep in mind it's one direction / one use only. If you go a little too far and need to back the compensator off a bit you need to toss the washer and start over. The wide dished part goes on the compensator side, the narrow side goes against the shoulder on the barrel.

- - - Updated - - -

Don't try and align it all in one go, unless it just happens to line up. I torque, loosen, repeat until it's aligned.

For what it's worth, that's not the correct way to use a crush washer.

 

[7.62x39]

Not a problem here in MA, We don't need no stinkin' washers. Just time it and pin it.

 

[jasons]

Not a problem here in MA, We don't need no stinkin' washers. Just time it and pin it.

How are you going to time it without a washer? (Or a well-stocked machine shop.)

 

[7.62x39]

Screw it on as far as it will go, back it off until it lines up and pin it. What could be simpler? Although I prefer using silver solder, unless I am working on a SS barrel.

 

[jasons]

Screw it on as far as it will go, back it off until it lines up and pin it. What could be simpler? Although I prefer using silver solder, unless I am working on a SS barrel.

Isn't it loose if you do it that way?

 

[exo]

For what it's worth, that's not the correct way to use a crush washer.

Maybe, but in my experience you'll end up torquing it by an excessive amount otherwise.

Edit: Maybe I'm not being clear. The final turn to align results in the FH being aligned and plenty of torque to make sure it's tight. I have found that if you screw on the FH until hand tight, and then wrench it all the way around until it's aligned results in stupid amounts of torque. Enough that it usually breaks the barrel loose in the vise.

 

[jasons]

Maybe, but in my experience you'll end up torquing it by an excessive amount otherwise.

You won't, at least not if done properly. There's a good section in the Army TM that explains the proper procedure (apparently they switched to crush washers at some point, which kinda surprises me but that's beside the point.)

I've never measured the torque required to install a crush washer, but my uncalibrated right arm tells me it's a lot less than 20 ft/lbs. I'll measure the next one just out of curiosity.

 

[exo]

You won't, at least not if done properly. There's a good section in the Army TM that explains the proper procedure (apparently they switched to crush washers at some point, which kinda surprises me but that's beside the point.)

I've never measured the torque required to install a crush washer, but my uncalibrated right arm tells me it's a lot less than 20 ft/lbs. I'll measure the next one just out of curiosity.

I've looked at a couple different editions of that TM, and I only see peel washers. Maybe the crush washers I've been getting are too hard, or something, but I've sat there with a torque wrench before and it wanted to go way over 20 ft-lbs. Mine are on there with enough torque that you're not spinning them off without tools, and they don't shoot loose.

I've stopped using torque wrenches for the FH and the castle nut on receiver extensions. Trying to torque the castle nut to spec yields either a nut that is too loose (if you use inch pounds, there is some internet controversy about whether the manuals are correct) or stripped teeth on your wrench (if you use foot pounds). I tighten until tight, and stake the end plate into the nut. Done.

 

[oilspill]

You won't, at least not if done properly. There's a good section in the Army TM that explains the proper procedure (apparently they switched to crush washers at some point, which kinda surprises me but that's beside the point.)

I've never measured the torque required to install a crush washer, but my uncalibrated right arm tells me it's a lot less than 20 ft/lbs. I'll measure the next one just out of curiosity.

I seem to remember Battlecomp recommends 20-45 ft/lbs. I also seem to remember one of the BC guys recommending the backing off/re-torquing method whereby backing it off 1/4 turn gains you 1/8 turn, obviously being careful to not to pass your desired timing.

 

[jasons]

I seem to remember Battlecomp recommends 20-45 ft/lbs. I also seem to remember one of the BC guys recommending the backing off/re-torquing method whereby backing it off 1/4 turn gains you 1/8 turn, obviously being careful to not to pass your desired timing.

That seems like a lot, but they would know their own product.

 

[7.62x39]

Isn't it loose if you do it that way?

Loose after it's pinned or silver soldered? Not only is it not loose, those are two of the three accepted methods to meet the permanently attached criteria. The other being welded.

 

[jasons]

Loose after it's pinned or silver soldered? Not only is it not loose, those are two of the three accepted methods to meet the permanently attached criteria. The other being welded.

No, before. I would hope it wouldn't be loose after you weld it.

 

[Hardwired]

Peel washers work fine, just peel a section off to adjust, it is NOT a crush washer. Crush washers you repeatedly torque and the washer slowly collapses, per Se, and allow further clocking.

How do you "peel" a section off? Unless my eyes are failing me (and they are) it looks like a solid stainless washer to me and I'd have to grind it down.
I also don't care for the bright stainless washer in between barrel and comp.

I tried the torque method using a spare crush washer I had (DPMS I think) and pretty much squashed it using 20ft-lbs and believe its toast. The DPMS washer seemed a lot softer than the one that originally came from the factory.

I read a method that did not use any torque wrench and saw multiple claims there is no torque spec. The method was to hand tighten the comp/FH and check the location. If it required from 1/4 to 3/4 turn to get it timed then you were good to wrench it on. If not try another crush washer and recheck. Can sand a little of the nose of the crush washer if necessary.

I believe also if the recommended to move only by a 1/4 turn at a time, and back off 1/8, then repeat until timed.
Is this method reasonable?

I prefer the torque wrench but getting frustrated.
Waiting on more crush washers (Yankee Hill this time) at this point.

 

[7.62x39]

No, before. I would hope it wouldn't be loose after you weld it.

The way I do it is to index the MD on the barrel, make a line on the MD and barrel for reference, take the MD off, square it up in a drill press vise, drill the hole a few thou smaller than the pin diameter Then I run a 1/2-20 tap through it just to clear out any burr, screw it back on the barrel, line up the timing marks, bottom the drill out (through the MD) then drill @ .075 into the barrel. Tap your pin in and weld over the top.

Mind you I only do this when working with stainless or anywhere where silver soldering is not an option, like securing this aluminum fake can on my M-92 Yugo.

 

[Hardwired]

This is how the DPMS washer crushed. Muzzle device is towards the bottom. Is their a good way to test the torque setting is accurate on my torque wrench? It seemed reasonable but that washer compressed easily.

The previous crush washer did not crush like that. I also could have swore it was on backwards (narrow side towards the muzzle device) from the factory.

 

[Hardwired]

7.62x39, is that Yugo blued or parkerized?

How difficult is it to parkerize of blue parts from a kit?

 

[exo]

This is how the DPMS washer crushed. Muzzle device is towards the bottom. Is their a good way to test the torque setting is accurate on my torque wrench? It seemed reasonable but that washer compressed easily.

The previous crush washer did not crush like that. I also could have swore it was on backwards (narrow side towards the muzzle device) from the factory.

I've gotten some DPMS crush washers before that were way too soft.

 

[7.62x39]

The can is anodized the rest is parked.
Parking is pretty easy, but it does require an investment in equipment and chemicals. First you need a SS tank, you really need one designed for rifles, since it needs to be long and skinny. I got mine from a guy who was selling them on either falfiles or gunco I forget which. You need a cabinet sized blast cabinet, I got that from harbor freight. You will also need a turkey frier or some other type of high BTU heat source. You need to set up several stations before hand (blasting, degreasing, parking, neutralizer/oil)because one the action starts, you can't stop.

Cleanliness is the whole key. Buy a box of nytril gloves and change them at each station. one fingerprint will pooch the entire job.