J
Jose
Honestly, how many MORE people from now on are going to wonder if a fireman is really a cop in disguise?
Come on, fugheddabout it.....
Come on, fugheddabout it.....
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Police dress as firefighters to arrest NH man
- Thread starter News Shooter
- Start date
I think its ironic, if the police kicked in the door and rushed the place and a shoot out ensued or someone got hurt people would be CRUCIFYING the police for not finding a way to bring this to a peacable end. In this situation the police find an alternative method, no one gets hurt, what happens, the police get CRUCIFIED.![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
The fact is people love to beat up on the police and monday morning quarterback them.
All of that being said. I think it was in poor form to utilize a firefighter ruse if they were not on board with it. People do loosen up when they are dealing with a FireFighter or EMT because it is not an adversarial relationship.
The fact is people love to beat up on the police and monday morning quarterback them.All of that being said. I think it was in poor form to utilize a firefighter ruse if they were not on board with it. People do loosen up when they are dealing with a FireFighter or EMT because it is not an adversarial relationship.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Your argument that a fireman's identity as a neutral party is now breached isn't entirely true. Neutral identity is not a guarantee that the "trusting public" will bring you lemonade when they see you working. EMT's are also neutral parties and respond purely to save lives whether a person is a cop or a crackhead. Unfortunately they get a fair amount of violence brought upon them from the "trusting public" as you called them. I don't think this one incident is going to change anything the way you say it will. Bad guys aren't going to start shooting firemen because this guy got creative in doing his job.
The fact is, if this guy was pointing a shotgun at a cop, and was in custody of a child, f***ing take him down. If they had gone back to the house and attempted a breach or forceable disarmament, its likely that this would have ended very badly. I'm in no way saying this is a tactic that needs to become standard practice, but I don't think this is going to put anyones life in jeopardy beyond the normal everyday risk that LEO's and firemen take every day they get up and go to work.
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I have an issue with what they did. My biggest issue is with the pulling of the fire alarm in a multi-unit dwelling.
The LEO's had no way to predict how others would react upon the alarm going off.
A bad gamble to take. And a bad precedent to set.
The LEO's had no way to predict how others would react upon the alarm going off.
A bad gamble to take. And a bad precedent to set.
SemiAutoSam
Banned
Not only that but I would bet that the law against impersonating a firefighter does not have an exception clause for cops doing it.
+1 to those that said this stupid move will endanger future firefighter reputation with the public.
+1 to those that said this stupid move will endanger future firefighter reputation with the public.
Agree with this 100 percent. The fire departments and the Coast Guard are our two most useful and honorable public services. They save more lives than you can imagine. I don't think the police thought this through enough. They should have delivered an exploding candy gram like in Blazing Saddles. Then only Western Union would be pissed and they're out of business now anyway.
I'm not worried about the general public. I am worried about the people that have reason to shoot cops. If they think that the firefighter pounding on their door yelling fire is a cop trying to arrest them it could get ugly for the firefighter.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
![[laugh2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/014.gif "Laugh at above [laugh2]")
SemiAutoSam
Banned
I didnt say general public, Just public and the people that have reason to shoot cops would be part of the public.
I agree already.
I agree already.
J
Jose
The very same Coastguardsmen that pick you up out of the water today are the same ones that will arrest you if they board you tomorrow for a "safety" inspection and find a firearm in your boat, whether it is legal or not.
I know a lot of people don't immediately realize this, but the US Coast Guard is the only branch of the military 100% exempt from Posse Commitatus at all time. Yes, they are a law enforcement agency as well as being a marine safety agency.
It's amazing how far people will stretch "logic" to validate their own personal opinions.
They got the bad guy, nice.
But anyone that doesn't think how it was done was a bad idea, how about you let me use YOUR identity to go piss some dangerous people off?
Oh wait, what was I thinking, this is NES: If confronted with even the remotest danger (like getting confronted by a bully for your bike, lunch money, etc.), you'd all somersault into a modified weaver stance and double tap the perp in each eye from 100 yards.
Oh, and for all the "everybody like to pick on the police" people, get used to it. Authority figures have been the victim of that kind of treatment since the beginning of civilization, from hall monitors to teachers to camp counselors to bosses. It's your choice to become a police officer so either suck it up or be a dentist, just stop whining...![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
They got the bad guy, nice.
But anyone that doesn't think how it was done was a bad idea, how about you let me use YOUR identity to go piss some dangerous people off?
Oh wait, what was I thinking, this is NES: If confronted with even the remotest danger (like getting confronted by a bully for your bike, lunch money, etc.), you'd all somersault into a modified weaver stance and double tap the perp in each eye from 100 yards.
Oh, and for all the "everybody like to pick on the police" people, get used to it. Authority figures have been the victim of that kind of treatment since the beginning of civilization, from hall monitors to teachers to camp counselors to bosses. It's your choice to become a police officer so either suck it up or be a dentist, just stop whining...
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Sorry, but I just don't agree with you. Not at all. It seems to me there is a whole lot more going on in the minds of some firefighters than is justified by an objective consideration of the issue at hand.
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So i guess everyone missed the part where he answered the door with a shotgun aimed at a cop with a LITTLE KID behind him and other weapons visible?
They were avoiding a possible shootout with the guy. They weren't going to go to the door with guns drawn knowing that there was a child present.
I fail to see how this will make people want to shoot at firefighters. Only crackheads shoot at on-duty firefighters. That is a fact.
They were avoiding a possible shootout with the guy. They weren't going to go to the door with guns drawn knowing that there was a child present.
I fail to see how this will make people want to shoot at firefighters. Only crackheads shoot at on-duty firefighters. That is a fact.
Ok, we'll have to agree to disagree.
I guess we'll have to wait until Jehovah's Witnesses start dressing up as police officers to get people to open the door to see how "objective" they are when someone is misrepresenting themselves to the public using their image for ulterior motives...
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![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Jose, I'm fully aware of this because I own a sailboat and have sailed all of my life. That's why me and all my bluewater friends hide our good stuff. It's a game we play with the orange-nose boats. But just so you know, I've never been boarded while underway and would rather have those squids and crazy young men out there in all kinds of weather than not.
I can understand the gettin it done mentality. I also understand that only a certain "Element" would shoot a Public Safety Official.
The point you seem to be missing is that these people communicate with each other just like we do. The word will get out each time something like this happens. It will in the end make it more dangerous for Fire/EMS.
Say what you will about the public's perception of the safety officials, but we all know unless a Police Officer is saving your ass or returning your stolen property. They usually get the short end of the stick.
If we're going to be put in a position where were expected to share the risk, ie. Tactial Medicine.Then I for one would want to be LE trained and equipped with the proper equipment
The point you seem to be missing is that these people communicate with each other just like we do. The word will get out each time something like this happens. It will in the end make it more dangerous for Fire/EMS.
Say what you will about the public's perception of the safety officials, but we all know unless a Police Officer is saving your ass or returning your stolen property. They usually get the short end of the stick.
If we're going to be put in a position where were expected to share the risk, ie. Tactial Medicine.Then I for one would want to be LE trained and equipped with the proper equipment
Oh come on, I'm sure theres a forum just like this one called Northeastcriminals.com where they post on topics such as: new laws that infringe on their rights to rape and pillage, where the best places to steal guns might be, ammo prices at walmart, what the regional going rate for a bag of heroin might be etc... Criminals are people too....
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
I sincerely hope you're joking here...
The old "criminals are dumb idiots..." attitude has contributed to the liberation of more than a few "intelligent, upstanding citizens" from their material possessions.
OF COURSE CRIMINALS COMMUNICATE.
Why do you think they call prison "Gladiator Academy"?
.There is a philosophical issue here that most people wouldnt understand. When society sees a police officer they immediately thing agresssors, wrongdoing, someone to be feared, etc. When society sees a firefighter, they THINK trusted, non threatening, out for their safety ( most of the time). Pulling a trojan horse operation like this leads to society mistrusting in the providers they call on to be genuine.
This is just wrong. Of course firefighters unions everywhere should be outraged, a level of mistrust was just put in the public about the sincerity of every fire engine riding worker in this country. Dont matter weather your union or not, full time or volly, the situation here just added a little more target to our backs.... BUT..... a life spared is a life spared, and thats what firefighters and ems do. Funny thing is, thats what the police do to. I wonder when they will start buying us firefighters Bullet proof vests and guns.... HEY!! this could work out for the BETTER !! Im goin runnin to my union right now)
I couldn't agree more!
For all of you that think a Firefighter can't become a target are either uninformed or an IDIOT [sad2]
In the town I worked for we swithed from class A (light blue shirt,dark blue pants) uniforms like the police wore, to class B (dark shirt and pants) because there was a Firefighter standing on a sidewalk who was gunned down by fleeing bank robbers, they thought he was a cop.
Luring criminals into thinking a firefighter (without defensive tools like gun and vest) could be a cop is like sending a cop into a fully involved structure fire with no SCBA, tools or extinguising line. extremly frightning idea!!!!!!!
Another thing,
Lets see a firefighter impersonate a cop to achieve an objective, and see what he would be charged with.
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M
MACGYVR
whatever happened to the all night stakeout??? Couldn't the cops just have put surveiilance on the place and a boot on his car and wait for him to come out?
There were 1000 better ways to have done this than impersonating firefighters.
Why didnt they just have the alarm go off as police and wait for him to come outside and then pounce?
Besides. The story would have been completely different if the residents paniced and someone got trampled or died of a heartattack during this.
There were 1000 better ways to have done this than impersonating firefighters.
Why didnt they just have the alarm go off as police and wait for him to come outside and then pounce?
Besides. The story would have been completely different if the residents paniced and someone got trampled or died of a heartattack during this.
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This technique is like putting soldiers in red cross marked vehicles to attain a military objective (as was done in a relatively recent hostage rescue in Brazil). The problem is that the short term gain is offset by undermining the "non-combatent, off limits" status of rescue staff.
Well put. Short term gain, long term consequences.
Now, whenever some tweeked out gun toting meth head sees a fireman in his neighborhood, he will be so paranoid that he will think the fireman is a cop.
He will take precautions and if the fireman comes to his door the fireman will be shot on site.
I know that if I were a pizza guy or a mail man, I'd be pissed if the cops pulled a similar stunt using my uniform and "props".
When it rains it pours- who want to bet that within 6 months a fireman gets shot as a result of this action?
J
Jose
Nonsense. The attention span of the average person is measured in minutes. This will be forgotten in less than a week flat except for those who wish to continue to ride the dead horse. The average tweeker doesn't even know this ruse took place. For people in general to become "suspicious" of firemen and EMTs aas cops in disguise, events like this would have to be run by the MSM every day for a month before it registers.
You give the vidiots way too much credit.
I'll take that bet against.
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