Practical Implications of H4885 for Purchasing and Possessing

[pastera]

what @pastera said. Folks just missed it because there was so much to take in in a short time.

Just like the training requirements exclusions for current license holders were in the bill - but everyone, including GOAL, freaked out thinking they would need to get new training.

1572 of such licensure as required under this chapter; provided, however, that persons possessing a firearms identification card or license to carry firearms prior to the implementation of live firearms trainings as required in this section shall also be exempt from such requirement

 

[pastera]

So much? The beautiful elected people of the Commiewealth wrote it, rushed it through, voted on it and they're still "taking it in".

No, our room temp IQ great court members didn't write this POS - they may have been paid to push it but there were outside influences and writers developing it.

 

[Chappy7]

No, our room temp IQ great court members didn't write this POS - they may have been paid to push it but there were outside influences and writers developing it.

Well aware of that. Long & short - watered down response for the "masses"

 

[Nightshift]

No, our room temp IQ great court members didn't write this POS - they may have been paid to push it but there were outside influences and writers developing it.

And they have delusions of grandeur and nobility as they lie about its virtues and constitutionality.

 

[pastera]

And they have delusions of grandeur and nobility as they lie about its virtues and constitutionality.

They aren't delusions if they are treated in the law as more equal than the rest of us.

 

[Nightshift]

They aren't delusions if they are treated in the law as more equal than the rest of us.

Well hopefully they get kicked in the balls soon and often. They'll never give up but they might flinch if their nuts are swollen.

 

[milktree]

Just like the training requirements exclusions for current license holders were in the bill - but everyone, including GOAL, freaked out thinking they would need to get new training.

It's worse than that. Even the state police think (or at least have told us) that anyone who gets an LTC after 8/1/24 will need to get the new training at renewal.

 

[Chappy7]

It's worse than that. Even the state police think (or at least have told us) that anyone who gets an LTC after 8/1/24 will need to get the new training at renewal.

them

 

[pastera]

It's worse than that. Even the state police think (or at least have told us) that anyone who gets an LTC after 8/1/24 will need to get the new training at renewal.

They are wrong but what are we to do about it since they are by law entitled to more rights than we are.

 

[DJBrad]

Current FID owners can still own until it expires, at which time they need to get the LTC.

SECTION 153. A valid license to carry a firearm issued under sections 131 or 131F of chapter 140 of the General Laws, a valid firearm identification card under section 129B of said chapter 140 or a valid license to sell under section 122 of said chapter 140, shall remain valid until the expiration, suspension or revocation of said license and shall entitle the holder to possess the firearms authorized by the license at the time it was last issued or renewed.

 

[loneranger]

Remember when FID's only expired when the owner did.

 

[RumRunner]

Remember when FID's only expired when the owner did.

Yep, still have my "Indefinite" FID card lol

 

[milktree]

SECTION 153. A valid license to carry a firearm issued under sections 131 or 131F of chapter 140 of the General Laws, a valid firearm identification card under section 129B of said chapter 140 or a valid license to sell under section 122 of said chapter 140, shall remain valid until the expiration, suspension or revocation of said license and shall entitle the holder to possess the firearms authorized by the license at the time it was last issued or renewed.

I don't see anything in there that restricts current (pre 10/2) FID holders from acquiring more semi-auto rifles.


It says, "the firearms authorized by the license at the time", it doesn't say, "firearms owned". Any SKS meets "authorized by the license"

 

[Mesatchornug]

I don't see anything in there that restricts current (pre 10/2) FID holders from acquiring more semi-auto rifles.


It says, "the firearms authorized by the license at the time", it doesn't say, "firearms owned". Any SKS meets "authorized by the license"

For possession

And, when they renew they'll need to upgrade or be rid of their noncompliant items

 

[milktree]

For possession

And, when they renew they'll need to upgrade or be rid of their noncompliant items

We agree?

 

[DJBrad]

We agree?

 

[richc]

The new law attempts to track every round of ammo that moves between parties. Obviously they dont know what you own because you may have shot it. But they want all ammo recorded in the new Super Mircs and all point of sales or FTF to use the system to record the movement of ammo. So even a gift of ammo, like a gift of a gun constitutes a transfer.

How the hell is this actually enforced is beyond my ability to comprehend short of installing cameras in every home and other private and public spaces ala 1984. But that is what the law does.

I'm giving away ammo for free, but selling a MAGA hat for the cost of the ammo...

 

[pastera]

I don't see anything in there that restricts current (pre 10/2) FID holders from acquiring more semi-auto rifles.


It says, "the firearms authorized by the license at the time", it doesn't say, "firearms owned". Any SKS meets "authorized by the license"

Section 153 exempts possession of a semiauto on an unexpired legacy FID but there is no other exemption. All other aspects of the license are in effect therefore no new semiautos may be acquired legally.

1137 (e) A person with a firearm identification card under section 129B who is over 18 years of age may purchase or transfer rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity or semi-automatic and ammunition therefor from a dealer licensed under section 122 or a person permitted to sell under this section.

There is a section that allows an FID holder to acquire and possess semiautos if they have a permit to purchase that specific arm - and we all know that permits to purchase are so easy to get

 

[milktree]

Section 153 exempts possession of a semiauto on an unexpired legacy FID but there is no other exemption. All other aspects of the license are in effect therefore no new semiautos may be acquired legally.

So, you're saying that an FID holder cannot sell an SKS to an LTC holder, because there's no specific exemption for "selling"? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[CrackPot]

So, you're saying that an FID holder cannot sell an SKS to an LTC holder, because there's no specific exemption for "selling"? That doesn't make any sense.

a FID holder cannot possess a SKS under the new law that took effect on 10/2/24. The state, in their totally-arbitrary, we-shall-do-anything-to-avoid-lawsuits-after-passing-a-poorly-thought-out-bill way, has declared that any gun you lawfully possessed when the new law took effect, you can still possess until your next renewal. So FID holders have until renewal (hopefully when they get an LTC) to resolve their semi auto long guns.

Private party transfers, until such time as the new EFRS (electronic firearm registration system) goes live, have no reporting requirements with the state as the FA10 system that is still active has NO enabling law. You should validate the license of the receiving party as that is a requirement, but that is it. So a FID holder can clearly transfer/sell a SKS they currently possess, that they possessed lawfully on 10/2, to a LTC holder.

 

[milktree]

a FID holder cannot possess a SKS under the new law that took effect on 10/2/24. The state, in their totally-arbitrary, we-shall-do-anything-to-avoid-lawsuits-after-passing-a-poorly-thought-out-bill way, has declared that any gun you lawfully possessed when the new law took effect, you can still possess until your next renewal.

There's no language about "already possessed" or "possessed at the time of the effective date" or anything like that.

It says:

... shall entitle the holder to possess the firearms authorized by the license at the time it was last issued or renewed.

When an FID issued or renewed before 10/2/24 was issued, it entitled the holder to possess any non-large capacity semi-auto rifle or shotgun. (e.g.: SKS)

If the argument is "FID holders can't get any more non-large capacity semi-auto rifles because ‘purchase’ is not explicitly mentioned in SECTION 153", then why would be it legal for an FID holder to SELL one? SECTION 153 says nothing about selling either.

So a FID holder can clearly transfer/sell a SKS they currently possess, that they possessed lawfully on 10/2, to a LTC holder.

You say "clearly", but where's the exception to §128B(c)?

A firearm identification card shall not entitle a holder thereof to transfer, possess or carry any other firearm including any large capacity firearm, any large capacity or semiautomatic rifle or any large capacity or semiautomatic shotgun

 

[CrackPot]

There's no language about "already possessed" or "possessed at the time of the effective date" or anything like that.

It says:



When an FID issued or renewed before 10/2/24 was issued, it entitled the holder to possess any non-large capacity semi-auto rifle or shotgun. (e.g.: SKS)

If the argument is "FID holders can't get any more non-large capacity semi-auto rifles because ‘purchase’ is not explicitly mentioned in SECTION 153", then why would be it legal for an FID holder to SELL one? SECTION 153 says nothing about selling either.




You say "clearly", but where's the exception to §128B(c)?

That which is not prohibited is permitted. No one can sell/transfer a semi TO a FID holder under the new law so I paraphrased as "possession". There is no legal way to get something not already possessed. Someone would be in violation of the law. I am not saying they cannot purcahse/acquire because of limitations on them within scope of the exception. I am saying there is no way for someone to transfer/sell TO them so it closes the purchase/acquire question.

The law does not stop them from selling so they can sell/transfer.

 

[not new guy]

And here I was thinking I need to hurry up and hit my limit for private sales before year end.

I guess finding buyers willing to skip the efa10 is still a concern.

 

[milktree]

The law does not stop them from selling so they can sell/transfer.

Are you sure? What does this mean then? It sure looks like an FID holder cannot transfer any semiauto gun.

§129B(c)
... A firearm identification card shall not entitle a holder thereof to transfer, possess or carry any other firearm including any large capacity firearm, any large capacity or semiautomatic rifle or any large capacity or semiautomatic shotgun

 

[not new guy]

Are you sure? What does this mean then? It sure looks like an FID holder cannot transfer any semiauto gun.

“Shall not entitle” isn’t exactly the same as a statutory prohibition.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I guess finding buyers willing to skip the efa10 is still a concern.

Whatcha sellin?

 

[milktree]

“Shall not entitle” isn’t exactly the same as a statutory prohibition.

Given that there's other laws that say, "nobody can own, purchase, possess, sell, buy, transfer, touch, look at, or think about any gun at all without a licence", it is.

129B is about the exception to "you can't have guns", so unless 129B provides a specific exception to "you can't have guns", the prohibition exists.

 

[not new guy]

Whatcha sellin?

TBD. I need to make space in the safe though.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Just like the training requirements exclusions for current license holders were in the bill - but everyone, including GOAL, freaked out thinking they would need to get new training.

The "freakout fo rnew training" was in regards for renewals of LTCs that were issued after the new law went into effect, but before the new training course standard had been developed. The state's position was that the old class would meet the requirement for getting an LTC before the new course was available, however, persons who did not have the "new course", and did not have an LTC prior to obtaining their LTC, would have to take the new course in order to renew.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

And here I was thinking I need to hurry up and hit my limit for private sales before year end.

I guess finding buyers willing to skip the efa10 is still a concern.

Funny. I would think sellers wouldn’t want to skip the FA10 as they would want the firearm out of their name, as much as it can be in the current system.