Pre-ban/Post-ban AR15 question

[Pilgrims Pride]

Ok,
Lets say I found a pre-ban lower.
I can put anything on it and its legal right?
So I buy the lower, go up to a free state and find an ar the way they should look and put that upper on the pre-ban lower, that is legal?
Then I find a post ban upper and put it on lower #2.
That works too?

Hope that all made sense.

 

[FalArAk]

Yup,I had to read it twice but it made sense.Although some NH shops may choose not to sell a new rifle(post pre-ban:evil features) to a MA resident.

 

[matt1956]

IIRC (legally) the lower would have had to have been configured as a full rifle prior to the ban... Now... that all comes down to what can they prove... of course you bought the rifle with the flash hider, bayo lug, adjustable stock. prove i didnt.

as far as the NH thing, you do not need to bother. you can find all the uppers you want in ma. you can even order an upper online... and upper is not a firearm. correct me if im wrong, but you dont even need a license to get the upper.

 

[FalArAk]

You're right about the upper and lower Matt.This thread has prompted me to take my AR to the range today

 

[Len-2A Training]

Yes, lower alone is NOT adequate to prove pre-ban.

BATFE had a list of legit pre-ban S/Ns for each mfr of AR15 and it has been posted on the Internet extensively (might still be up on AR15.com.

Thus, you could get jammed up on an AR15.

I am unaware of any similar S/N list of pre-ban any other model gun however. But I never went looking either.

 

[JonJ]

I am unaware of any similar S/N list of pre-ban any other model gun however. But I never went looking either.

Here's a thread with a list:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=13006

 

[Len-2A Training]

Thanks Jon, that's the list of ARs that I was referring to.

Still no lists (by mfr S/N) of other types of guns that were pre-ban however.

 

[JonJ]

Thanks Jon, that's the list of ARs that I was referring to.

Still no lists (by mfr S/N) of other types of guns that were pre-ban however.

My mistake. I quoted the wrong section of text.

 

[MichaelJ]

Now... that all comes down to what can they prove... of course you bought the rifle with the flash hider, bayo lug, adjustable stock. prove i didnt

In this state, it would be more like what YOU the "evil" rifle owner can prove.

 

[EasyD]

The gun being complete was a ATF opinion issued during the federal level ban, now sunsetted. No one with the proper authority has ever issued a similar opinion in MA.

Go get your lower and upper, don't commit a crime with it, and live happily ever after.

--EasyD

 

[Len-2A Training]

The gun being complete was a ATF opinion issued during the federal level ban, now sunsetted. No one with the proper authority has ever issued a similar opinion in MA.

Go get your lower and upper, don't commit a crime with it, and live happily ever after.

--EasyD

Since the MA Legislature copied the wording of the Fed Ban, you can bet your last dollar that they would use the same argument in this case . . . and in MA, they would WIN!

The person taking your advice could easily end up at Walpole/Cedar Junction MCI for a 10 year "all expense paid vacation".

You won't be the one doing the time for the misguided person who follows your advice!

 

[Gammon]

I have a pre-ban lower that I bought to beat the ban. After further research I decided not to try to build a pre-ban gun with this lower. If you run afoul of the authorities, you might be in the unenviable position of having to prove that the gun was assembled prior to the ban.

 

[Joe R.]

Len has that right. Don't need a vacation at Walpole to think about how bad my life had gotten.

Serial # lists are great - if complete. The law stated the the rifle had to be assembled as a pre-ban in order to count. A lower after that cut-off might not count.

Makers like Rock River Arms don't have a pre-ban list - they started building after the ban started. Be on the lookout for stuff like this.

Joe R.

 

[EasyD]

I have a pre-ban lower that I bought to beat the ban. After further research I decided not to try to build a pre-ban gun with this lower. If you run afoul of the authorities, you might be in the unenviable position of having to prove that the gun was assembled prior to the ban.

Nice, I'll trade you a brand-new lower of your choice, from a major manufacturer, for it.

--EasyD

 

[KMaurer]

Check the serial numbers with the manufacturer. Pre-ban lowers that weren't assembled as pre-ban AWs are rarer than hen's teeth. Every manufacturer was working full bore up to the deadline to ensure that every lower they had could be sold for the pre-ban premium. A lot of them weren't sold as completed guns, but they were documented as having been assembled in pre-ban configuration prior to the deadline.

Ken

 

[Mass-diver]

Check the serial numbers with the manufacturer. Pre-ban lowers that weren't assembled as pre-ban AWs are rarer than hen's teeth. Every manufacturer was working full bore up to the deadline to ensure that every lower they had could be sold for the pre-ban premium. A lot of them weren't sold as completed guns, but they were documented as having been assembled in pre-ban configuration prior to the deadline.

Ken

(To reserect this thread, but not beat a dead horse) But this is what I've heard as well, basically any pre-ban lower that you run into was assembled pre-ban.

I have family in NH that have been telling me that I should come up and get a pre-ban lower from the, if the serial number matches up as OK - is there any reason I can't take this home, assembly it pre-ban and register it????

 

[Len-2A Training]

I know of MANY pre-ban lowers that were NOT assembled/kitted as "AW" prior to the ban.

MUST be careful if you want to avoid legal problems.

You can buy a pre-ban lower/gun in any state where they will sell it to you. Bring it back and Register it with FA-10 (if/when constructed into a gun).

 

[Mass-diver]

IYou can buy a pre-ban lower/gun in any state where they will sell it to you. Bring it back and Register it with FA-10 (if/when constructed into a gun).

Thanks Len. I have read a bunch of threads on NES and other places, however, I guess my main question would be whether I can buy a lower off private person (not a FFL) out of state and bring it back and then register it.

 

[Len-2A Training]

NO! Fed Law treats a "frame" (AR lower) as a "firearm". NO firearms between private parties across state lines are allowed per Fed Law (felony). Must go thru a dealer.

 

[Mass-diver]

NO! Fed Law treats a "frame" (AR lower) as a "firearm". NO firearms between private parties across state lines are allowed per Fed Law (felony). Must go thru a dealer.

Thanks Len!

 

[PaulD]

Can I ask what the differences are between a pre-ban and post- ban lower? Will a post-ban lower accept pre-ban, hi-cap mags? Thanks.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Can I ask what the differences are between a pre-ban and post- ban lower? Will a post-ban lower accept pre-ban, hi-cap mags? Thanks.

For inmates of MA, the difference is a line drawn in the sand . . . anything on one side of the date is OK to own. Anything on the other side of that date is a FELONY with penalties of up to 10 years per item/infraction. [This included visitors to MA too.]

All hardware is basically identical (although some design changes, S/N or markings can tell when they were made). Physically all post/pre-ban items will fit on any pre/post-ban item.

If you live in a "free state", all this is irrelevant to you unless you bring your hardware into MA.

 

[Mass-diver]

Can I ask what the differences are between a pre-ban and post- ban lower? Will a post-ban lower accept pre-ban, hi-cap mags? Thanks.

The big deal (for me) is that if I can get a certified pre-ban lower than I can build a pre-ban rifle, which, again for me, means a tele-stock which I something I really, really want.

 

[matt1956]

bottom line, If yo lived in a free state, pre/post ban means nothing more other then when the lower was made. all parts wil lstill fit nicely together no matter what.

IN MA, the preban needs to have been registered/assembled as a complete rifle prior to the ban. the question is, can you be sure that what you are buying was a complete rifle prior to the ban? If so, then you are fine. If not... you could very well get in deep crap.

Personally, I would LOVE a adjustable stock. I have no problem with my rifle, however my wife can barely reach because she is only 5 feet tall, so the stock at full extention is difficult and actually unsafe... of corse MA has never concerned itself with the safey of shooters... just about what "looks" evil.

If you are going to be the only one shooting this rifle, I wouldn't be overly concerned about it (if it is your first AR).

Mainly because you will pay 2 X's or more then you would for a post ban config.

Now, I can say this though... If this is your first AR, it will not be your last (or only). So a Preban may surely come to you down the road, but if the adjustable stock is the ONLY reason for the preban right now, then i would say unless you are getting a killer deal, pass and get a post ban for now.

 

[Ninsho]

Am I missing something, I thought it was possible to get a post-ban with a tele stock, so long as you don't have a bayonet lug, flash hider and all the other AWB niceties. Or is that nationwide and MA is stricter?

Any semiautomatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following features:

* a folding or telescoping stock.
* a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
* a bayonet mount.
* a flash suppressor or a threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor.
* a grenade launcher.

http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/preORpost.html

 

[matt1956]

Am I missing something, I thought it was possible to get a post-ban with a tele stock, so long as you don't have a bayonet lug, flash hider and all the other AWB niceties. Or is that nationwide and MA is stricter?




http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/preORpost.html

you are missing something... that list is incomplete/not correctly worded.

IIRC, It can only have two of these features

Any semiautomatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following features:

* a folding or telescoping stock.
* a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
* a bayonet mount.
* a flash suppressor or a threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor.
* a grenade launcher.

one of them being the detachable magazine
and pretty sure that most ar's have a "pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon."

what you are missreading is that having a detachable mag and having 2 or more features part. That makes it Illegal. detachable mag and 1 feature = ok, not an AW.

 

[Ninsho]

I've seen it on sites both ways, but of course mag + pistol grip + tele stock is the more favorable interpretation though . You probably know better then I do though.

 

[Mass-diver]

I've seen it on sites both ways, but of course mag + pistol grip + tele stock is the more favorable interpretation though . You probably know better then I do though.

It's a 100% that you can't have a tele-stock on an AR-15 in MA unless it's preban. No room for doubt on this one

 

[Ninsho]

It's a 100% that you can't have a tele-stock on an AR-15 in MA unless it's preban. No room for doubt on this one

I didn't want to hear that . I could deal with not having some of the other 'accessories' that are banned, but a tele stock on the shorter AR-15's seems almost necessary to me. Guess I will be on the market for a pre-ban sooner rather then later.