Preban Lower receivers

[ReluctantGunner]

I'm kind of sick of the lawsuits and bickering whether or not what the AG did is legal or whatever.

I really just want to get rid of my pre 7/20 AR and buy a 94 preban AR.
Gun stores have them for sale for crazy amount of money.

Gunbroker always has them on sale for less but still crazy amount of money.

Is a preban lower worth 1000 dollars?

 

[rdayc13]

That's a question you have to answer.

 

[Individualist]

A preban lower is worth about $50... anywhere in Free America. Unfortunately in this dictatorship it is worth whatever the market will bear, which could run close to a grand for a good one. That being said, I have one. The only benefit for me is being able to (legally) use an adjustable stock. Otherwise I have to use two rifles with different length stocks - one for myself and son, the other for my wife and daughter. How is that even remotely logical in terms of their agenda to reduce the number of guns? Uhhhh....

As far as piece of mind goes, if it helps you sleep at night and you have the cash then go for it. It "may" provide another level of legal protection down the road. Will it forever? Who knows. What would prevent the traitorous rulers in MA from changing the law to ban all AR's, with no grandfathering what so ever, including pre-1994? Nothing. We are not tied to the old Federal ban rules. If they think they will be able to get away with it they will try. If the Dems take over Congress and the WH, you can pretty much guarantee MA will try to go full bore ban on everything they can.

 

[Christian]

They absolutely aren't worth $1000.

I love how everyone bitches and moans about how the LGS hose us on ammo prices when a panic ensues, but plenty of shitbirds around here have zero issue bending over one of their own for an ungodly profit and see no problem in doing so.

I've already promised my preban M14 mags to someone when I leave at free state pricing but I'll no longer be selling my scary black rifle(at any price) before leaving. I'd rather destroy it to keep it from the profiteers that would flip it to exploit others who weren't able to secure any prior to 7/20.

Between the fudds with their heads up their asses and the jerkoffs screwing anyone they can, we deserve whatever anti laws come our way. If we can't keep from shitting on our own at every opportunity, why the hell should we even entertain the thought of the libs ever stopping?

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

I'm kind of sick of the lawsuits and bickering whether or not what the AG did is legal or whatever.

I really just want to get rid of my pre 7/20 AR and buy a 94 preban AR.
Gun stores have them for sale for crazy amount of money.

Gunbroker always has them on sale for less but still crazy amount of money.

Is a preban lower worth 1000 dollars?

Sorry am I missing something here -- you have an AR but you want to get rid of it because of "lawsuits and bickering" that in no way effect your ability to own, shoot, trade or sell the AR you currently have.

And you would do this while paying a premium to buy another AR identical in all respects other than how old the lower receiver is.

I am not trying to be snarky (well not much ) just wondering is there motivation beyond being "kind of sick of the lawsuits and bickering"?

 

[MGnoob]

A preban colt green label i could see pay $1000 for... but wouldn't pay more than 600 for an off brand large pin FCG with a sear block.

 

[22lr]

It is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it, so the answer to your question is yes.

 

[TomMontana]

Sorry am I missing something here -- you have an AR but you want to get ride of it because of "lawsuits and bickering" that in no way effect your ability to own, shoot, trade or sell the AR you currently have.

And you would do this while paying a premium to buy another AR identical in all respects other than how old the lower receiver is.

I am not trying to be snarky (well not much ) just wondering is there motivation beyond being "kind of sick of the lawsuits and bickering"?

Hey, gotta do something with that tax refund.

 

[northny]

You can say a pre ban lower is not worth $1,000, but I’ll make two observations.

First, I’d skoff at you or any one else that thought they could buy mine for $1,000. I bought mine before an AWB thought was even on horizon. Same for the ones I bought for my sons the year they were born. The boys could field strip and clean an AR before they could drive.

Second, I bought my colt hbar A2 the first year it was offered for sale. (Retiring my garand from match shoots). The same year I bought on sale a matched set (12 and 20 gauge) engraved Ithaca over/ under shotguns that in total only cost $50 more than what the single colt cost. Sale of early ARs to civilians was a boutique business and the early rifles weren’t inexpensive to start.

 

[Individualist]

It is worth whatever people are willing to pay for it, so the answer to your question is yes.

This is it in a nutshell. It’s a free market and the price is dictated by supply and demand. It’s what the market will bear. I have zero issues with someone asking $1000 or $5000 for one. None whatsoever. If there is a buyer for it good for them. If not they can chose to lower the price until it sells.

 

[Christian]

This is it in a nutshell. It’s a free market and the price is dictated by supply and demand. It’s what the market will bear. I have zero issues with someone asking $1000 or $5000 for one. None whatsoever. If there is a buyer for it good for them. If not they can chose to lower the price until it sells.

Not so much since 7/20 as there's no more supply being added to the market, just what's already out there(until transfers are banned). It would be like if post 86' MGs suddenly became less regulated and available to anyone with an LTC at every LGS, the prices on the pre 86' MGs would plummet because there would be a new never-ending supply.

In a FREE market we'd be able to buy stripped lowers from Brownells/Midway/PSA/etc. for <$100 all day every day. What we have here is more of a "F*** you(as the seller grabs your balls then squeezes & twists)! Not only are you going to pay what I demand and like it, your also going to thank me for it" market.

 

[Individualist]

It’s still s free market in that the seller is free to set their asking price, and the buyer can choose to purchase, negotiate or go elsewhere. However, the supply has been artificially decreased for pre-Healey lowers. Given the demand is still strong the price has definitely risen dramatically. I don’t believe anything has changed for pre-1994 lowers in MA. They’re still going for about the same as they have been for a number of years.

 

[matt2491]

I've sold a couple of my pre-ban stripped receivers for more than $1000. No big deal.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

but plenty of shitbirds around here have zero issue bending over one of their own for an ungodly profit and see no problem in doing so.

So, I assume when it comes time to sell your house, you will base it on a fair markup relative to what you paid, rather than the maximum the market will bear?

 

[mikelawtown]

Buy if you want it and pay what u can

 

[jpm]

Keep in mind that a pre-ban lower is NOT a pre-ban rifle. It had to have been assembled into a rifle and on the books as a rifle before 9/13/1994 ban went into effect, otherwise you cannot now make it into a pre-ban rifle. Its always going to be a post-ban rifle. Someone recently sold one in the classifieds as a stripped pre-ban lower that was never assembled and asked about a grand for it, never mentioning the fact that the buyer is screwed if he gets caught with a pre-ban config on it and the cops/feds do any research. Its on the books when it left the manufacturer as what it was - rifle/pistol/receiver - and those books are permanent records. Same for any subsequent FFLs it went thru, so it can determined if it was a rifle or not prior to 9/13/94 so be careful and do your homework! Most manufacturers will tell you what it was when it left the factory if you give them the s/n.

 

[Mass-diver]

They are selling for around 1k these days. A beat up pre-94 stripped lower for 1k will probably not sell, but an assembled lower with a quality LPK and a nice stock will sell fast for $900-1k. Actually not that much higher than before the Healy stuff when they are around $700-800.

Some, of course, have argued that all post ‘94-pre/Healy rifles have been declared AWs regardless of their number of evil features. This line of thinking makes pre-94 less valuable and pre-Healy more. But, most of us seem to think that in these confusing times, the best thing to do is focus on the actual law (not “interpretations”) and run pre-94s if you want a evil configuration.

 

[TLB]

Keep in mind that a pre-ban lower is NOT a pre-ban rifle. It had to have been assembled into a rifle and on the books as a rifle before 9/13/1994 ban went into effect, otherwise you cannot now make it into a pre-ban rifle. Its always going to be a post-ban rifle. Someone recently sold one in the classifieds as a stripped pre-ban lower that was never assembled and asked about a grand for it, never mentioning the fact that the buyer is screwed if he gets caught with a pre-ban config on it and the cops/feds do any research. Its on the books when it left the manufacturer as what it was - rifle/pistol/receiver - and those books are permanent records. Same for any subsequent FFLs it went thru, so it can determined if it was a rifle or not prior to 9/13/94 so be careful and do your homework! Most manufacturers will tell you what it was when it left the factory if you give them the s/n.

I'm calling BS on this. The prosecution would need to prove it's case. IMO, they are not going to try if the mfg date is preban.

 

[matt2491]

^^

Agreed. Plus, who's to say the original owner didn't build it into a complete rifle prior to 9/13/94, and it was later disassembled?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I'm calling BS on this. The prosecution would need to prove it's case. IMO, they are not going to try if the mfg date is preban.

The potential problem arises when the owner has a lower that was bought legally from a dealer who did not insist on filing an FA-10, so the lower is not "on the books as a gun". The owner then completes the gun and, in an anal-retentive desire to comply with every nuance of the law, files an eFA-10 documenting the manufacture of the gun. Owners of lowers that were originally FA-10'ed by paranoid dealers are at an advantage since they are already on the MA books as "guns".

 

[jpm]

^^
Agreed. Plus, who's to say the original owner didn't build it into a complete rifle prior to 9/13/94, and it was later disassembled?

It has to be documented that it was. So if the cops call ATF in and they do their investigation which probably starts at the manufacturers books its going to show that it started its life as a receiver and now you're gonna have to prove otherwise. The example I cited it was explicitly stated in the description (and you could tell by the pictures too) that it was never made made into a rifle.

I'm calling BS on this. The prosecution would need to prove it's case. IMO, they are not going to try if the mfg date is preban.

You might be willing to risk your freedom on that assumption, I'm not.

 

[Matt_SERE]

Owners of lowers that were originally FA-10'ed by paranoid dealers are at an advantage since they are already on the MA books as "guns".

Group buys of yore this was a major bitching point. Who knew that it could possibly be saving them a good nights sleep?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You might be willing to risk your freedom on that assumption, I'm not.

More realistically, PP status.

 

[drgrant]

Probably worth lots of money if you're afraid of your own shadow.

To everyone else... they're worth whatever a normal lower is worth, which depending on material and quality is like $50-$300.

-Mike

 

[bgoum]

The potential problem arises when the owner has a lower that was bought legally from a dealer who did not insist on filing an FA-10, so the lower is not "on the books as a gun". The owner then completes the gun and, in an anal-retentive desire to comply with every nuance of the law, files an eFA-10 documenting the manufacture of the gun. Owners of lowers that were originally FA-10'ed by paranoid dealers are at an advantage since they are already on the MA books as "guns".

I have only one such lower left that was FA-10'd by a paranoid dealer at the time. I thankfully have a handful more pre-healey lowers that were never FA-10'd waiting for a fine day in the sun when they will come forth and be built into the greatness that they were born to be. Just the thought of all that potential brings a smile to my face.

 

[Mass-diver]

I'm calling BS on this. The prosecution would need to prove it's case. IMO, they are not going to try if the mfg date is preban.

Maybe, maybe not. I own “several” pre-ban ‘94 lowers, all were easy to verify as completed rifles (lots of the companies kept track). For that kind of money, I find this preferable even if it’s unlikely to ever be an issue.

 

[LuvDog]

But wasn’t a pre-94 lower always considered a firearm in the eyes of the feds?

As for the 7/20 crap. It’s crap.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

They absolutely aren't worth $1000.

I love how everyone bitches and moans about how the LGS hose us on ammo prices when a panic ensues, but plenty of shitbirds around here have zero issue bending over one of their own for an ungodly profit and see no problem in doing so.

I've already promised my preban M14 mags to someone when I leave at free state pricing but I'll no longer be selling my scary black rifle(at any price) before leaving. I'd rather destroy it to keep it from the profiteers that would flip it to exploit others who weren't able to secure any prior to 7/20.

Between the fudds with their heads up their asses and the jerkoffs screwing anyone they can, we deserve whatever anti laws come our way. If we can't keep from shitting on our own at every opportunity, why the hell should we even entertain the thought of the libs ever stopping?

I hate free market economics too. What a drag.

 

[drgrant]

It has to be documented that it was. So if the cops call ATF in and they do their investigation which probably starts at the manufacturers books its going to show that it started its life as a receiver and now you're gonna have to prove otherwise. The example I cited it was explicitly stated in the description (and you could tell by the pictures too) that it was never made made into a rifle.

That's not how most laws work when trying to prosecute someone. The state generally has the burden of proving that someone broke the law.

None of this matters because this will never be a case anyways. Nor have I ever heard of a case (state or federal) where this actually mattered. Because it doesn't.

I'm sure the ATF / NTC is going to be really happy about doing a trace on a lawfully owned gun where the owner is already known.... even then, that trace won't necessarily prove what "state of assembly" the lower was in at different points along its journey. Yeah, the vendor could have sold it as a lower... to a gun shop who built the rifle out, or any number of other
things.

Hell will freeze over first. And I'll win the powerball, too. And pigs will be taking off and landing at logan airport.

Is there a place that does prop bets on this on a yearly basis? I'll put my tax refund
down.. make some easy money on this.

This is right up there with that USC 922R crap. That dude on FalFiles, last I knew, still has his $1000.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

More realistically, PP status.

When's the last case anywhere where this actually mattered? Never heard of one in MA at least.

-Mike