Price of Ammo

[KDK]

I don't know if this question has been asked and answered already but I will ask anyways. Why is ammo so expensive? Is it simply a matter of supply and demand? Is it inflation? Regulation? (I studied some econ and regulations can create deficits that artificially raise prices e.g. Glocks in MA) Why is a box of 9mm $10 and .40 $17? Is the differing amount of lead and copper that significant? Where is the most economical place to purchase ammo? Is reloading the only way to go? Have I just answered my own questions?

 

[terraformer]

I don't know if this question has been asked and answered already but I will ask anyways. Why is ammo so expensive? Is it simply a matter of supply and demand? Is it inflation? Regulation? (I studied some econ and regulations can create deficits that artificially raise prices e.g. Glocks in MA) Why is a box of 9mm $10 and .40 $17? Is the differing amount of lead and copper that significant? Where is the most economical place to purchase ammo? Is reloading the only way to go? Have I just answered my own questions?

Lead just increased $0.10 a pound in the last week alone. It does not take too many bullets to make a pound. Also, that weight leads to greater shipping costs. Copper is also a high flyer these days. Copper is used in the jacket and is combined with zinc to make the brass. So in bulk the per pound price is now, lead $1, copper is $4, zinc is $1. Five years ago copper was a $1 a pound ($ quadrupled in 5 years), lead went from $0.25 to $1 in the same period (It actually went down $0.50 from $1.50 in the last year thank god) and zinc increased by only 2x in the same time to $0.90 (it had gone to $1.60 a year ago...). Add in shipping prices and the cost of the gun powder, and you can see how doubling of raw resources can easily add a 2x increase in retail cost. Given the 4x increase, well, you have the point.

Winchester White Box @ Walmart. I would not reload in this environment. The economics won't hold as prices are starting to go down for raw materials, thus the retail cost of ammo will begin to also go down.

 

[vellnueve]

The price are up because the worldwide demand for the materials is up. China is consuming massive amounts of copper, the manufacturers are all busy supplying government contracts, etc.

 

[KDK]

Lead just increased $0.10 a pound in the last week alone. It does not take too many bullets to make a pound. Also, that weight leads to greater shipping costs. Copper is also a high flyer these days. Copper is used in the jacket and is combined with zinc to make the brass. So in bulk the per pound price is now, lead $1, copper is $4, zinc is $1. Five years ago copper was a $1 a pound ($ quadrupled in 5 years), lead went from $0.25 to $1 in the same period (It actually went down $0.50 from $1.50 in the last year thank god) and zinc increased by only 2x in the same time to $0.90 (it had gone to $1.60 a year ago...). Add in shipping prices and the cost of the gun powder, and you can see how doubling of raw resources can easily add a 2x increase in retail cost. Given the 4x increase, well, you have the point.

Winchester White Box @ Walmart. I would not reload in this environment. The economics won't hold as prices are starting to go down for raw materials, thus the retail cost of ammo will begin to also go down.

That is a more than satisfactory answer. Thank you. Let's hope the price of ammo and all consumer goods go down.

 

[FalArAk]

Look at the price of 1K Privi 5.56 at Four Seasons and then compare that price to the many other places you can get it online.You will notice a MAJOR price differance.Golden Tiger 7.62x39 is $270 or so at Four Seasons, and around $180 at Rileys.

Ammo is a LOT more expensive than it should be because people are paying the obscene prices.

One shop that I know of is selling 20 round boxes of Privi .308 for $14.95 each..I can't find this ammo for more than $.50 a round,except here in MA.Rileys has it for $10 a box...

Ever notice how shops are more than proud to display the letter from ATK announcing yet ANOTHER price increase ?

Can anyone here that has walked into a gunshop honestly say there is an ammo shortage ?

 

[MassMark]

I find it amazing, (and a little sad at the same time), that I can get ammo delivered to my door for less than most, if not all dealers charge. How can this be? Check ammo prices for military stuff out here in WMA - it's madness. I'd love to hook some of these folks up to a polygraph and have them swear they're not gouging....

 

[Dench]

Look at the price of 1K Privi 5.56 at Four Seasons and then compare that price to the many other places you can get it online.You will notice a MAJOR price differance.Golden Tiger 7.62x39 is $270 or so at Four Seasons, and around $180 at Rileys.

Ammo is a LOT more expensive than it should be because people are paying the obscene prices.

One shop that I know of is selling 20 round boxes of Privi .308 for $14.95 each..I can't find this ammo for more than $.50 a round,except here in MA.Rileys has it for $10 a box...

Ever notice how shops are more than proud to display the letter from ATK announcing yet ANOTHER price increase ?

Can anyone here that has walked into a gunshop honestly say there is an ammo shortage ?

are we allowed to buy ammo in NH if we have mass licences and are not NH residents? im looking to buy some bulk 7.62 soviet and 5.56

 

[Fsorrent]

are we allowed to buy ammo in NH if we have mass licences and are not NH residents? im looking to buy some bulk 7.62 soviet and 5.56

YES

 

[BillK]

are we allowed to buy ammo in NH if we have mass licences and are not NH residents? im looking to buy some bulk 7.62 soviet and 5.56

Next time your down in this area, I'll show you State Line Gun, Paul is a great person and he is only another 10 minutes away from the range. That and TAX FREE NH

 

[Dench]

i didnt know there was such a drastic price difference between MA and NH.
i need to buy a ton of ammo for the up coming shoots, and for billk and myselfs extravaganzas.

 

[drgrant]

Winchester White Box @ Walmart. I would not reload in this environment. The economics won't hold as prices are starting to go down for raw materials, thus the retail cost of ammo will begin to also go down.

You wouldn't reload? Even if the prices plummeted back to 2004 levels, you
will still be way ahead by reloading. Even back then there were only a
handful of calibers that weren't viable to reload. Nearly nothing is below
$150/1000 rounds, save for maybe .22 rimfire.

Frankly, I am annoyed at myself that I didn't start reloading earlier.

Even if you spend the same amount of money on supplies, you will shoot
more for that same amount of money, if you reload.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Look at the price of 1K Privi 5.56 at Four Seasons and then compare that price to the many other places you can get it online.You will notice a MAJOR price differance.Golden Tiger 7.62x39 is $270 or so at Four Seasons, and around $180 at Rileys.

FWIW I don't think I've found a shop in MA or NH that will beat Riley's pricing on about 90% of the ammo they sell there. NH Walmarts might lowball them on CCI Blazer Brass or whatever, but not by a whole lot... the difference is
within a dollar a box. I don't think they make much on ammo, partially to use it as a vehicle to attract people to the shop.

-Mike

 

[drumenigma]

on CNBC today they reported that the CFTC is investigating/bringing charges against a firm for manipulating commodity prices. They are not sure exactly of how widespread the impact is but you never know. And copper has actually been going down lately. It was up close to $4 like the other week but it was closer to $3.50-$3.60 on the market today. Maybe there is some hope of prices returning to somewhat normal or at least lower than what they are now. I am sure the price of oil has had a huge impact as well. It takes a lot of energy to mine and refine copper. Then even more energy to turn it in to ammo.

 

[terraformer]

You wouldn't reload? Even if the prices plummeted back to 2004 levels, you
will still be way ahead by reloading. Even back then there were only a
handful of calibers that weren't viable to reload. Nearly nothing is below
$150/1000 rounds, save for maybe .22 rimfire.

Frankly, I am annoyed at myself that I didn't start reloading earlier.

Even if you spend the same amount of money on supplies, you will shoot
more for that same amount of money, if you reload.

-Mike

My brother in law and I were looking into buying a indexing press for handgun/rifle rounds (he reloads shotguns) and were pricing the stuff out. Admittedly I don't know much about reloading but he does. He looked at everything, made a list and we priced it. Circa $800 for the press and a few die kits. Assuming zero cost for brass, we looked at common prices for ball rounds, assumed some fractional $ value for powder per round, and ran the math. It saved ~.01 per round, without rolling in much of the cost of the press. I think based on our volume, payback on the press would have been in ~15 yrs. Forget about the time we would have spent in loading, that was not even considered. I have a barn on my property and it would have been the perfect place for it. It just made no sense for the volume when compared to a run to Walmart in NH.
He still reloads shotgun shells but that is because he has bags of lead he paid less than $10 for (going for more than $50 now). He will not be buying more lead when he runs out. That is one way reloading makes sense, if you pre-buy, but you can do that with loaded ammo too. Now, reloading definitely makes sense if you are a serious target shooter and/or want to play with ballistics, then reloading makes a whole lot of sense. Because that cost of time and press are then applied to the value of playing with loads and other benefits of reloading.

 

[drumenigma]

It definitely makes a lot of sense to buy in bulk if you don't reload to try to get any price breaks that you can. Just figure that you'll eventually shoot it all even if you don't shoot a lot. Like myself I don't really bring a large amount of ammo to the range when I go. In fact I almost never shoot everything I bring. However, I try to buy cases or battle-packs when I can to get the quantity discounts. I wouldn't mind reloading though for a couple reasons. I do save my brass so I can either save it for when I do start to reload or sell it to someone who will use it. That can help lower the cost per box as well.

 

[drgrant]

My brother in law and I were looking into buying a indexing press for handgun/rifle rounds (he reloads shotguns) and were pricing the stuff out. Admittedly I don't know much about reloading but he does. He looked at everything, made a list and we priced it. Circa $800 for the press and a few die kits. Assuming zero cost for brass, we looked at common prices for ball rounds, assumed some fractional $ value for powder per round, and ran the math. It saved ~.01 per round, without rolling in much of the cost of the press. I think based on our volume, payback on the press would have been in ~15 yrs. Forget about the time we would have spent in loading, that was not even considered. I have a barn on my property and it would have been the perfect place for it. It just made no sense for the volume when compared to a run to Walmart in NH.
He still reloads shotgun shells but that is because he has bags of lead he paid less than $10 for (going for more than $50 now). He will not be buying more lead when he runs out. That is one way reloading makes sense, if you pre-buy, but you can do that with loaded ammo too. Now, reloading definitely makes sense if you are a serious target shooter and/or want to play with ballistics, then reloading makes a whole lot of sense. Because that cost of time and press are then applied to the value of playing with loads and other benefits of reloading.

The numbers depend on the quantity you shoot. Cost recovery is fast if you're expending over 1000 rounds a year in any one given caliber. It's not so good if you're one of the guys that only gets to sneak out to the range once in a blue moon.

IIRC awhile ago NES member TonyDedo did a good breakdown on this somewhere else on the forum; and he (correctly) calculated that even if you threw in a low end labor rate for you time, you'd still end up ahead. He even threw in things like the cost of the press, etc, etc. (IIRC he used a Dillon 650 in his example, which is even relatively overkill to get started with)

Currently I reload .45 ACP at a cost of $9.25 for 50 rounds, using 230 gr CMJ bullets. This stuff is as good, or better than factory. What I was using was CCI Blazer Brass, which is excellent ammo for the money- but
even at rock bottom, that stuff still costs about $15 a box unless you have an "IN" with a distributor/FFL buddy that can get it for less...

FWIW, the more expensive calibers to reload (eg, .44 mag on up) you start to save a lot of money, real fast. A reloading setup for .500 S+W, for example, will easily pay for itself inside of a year, because commercial ammo is so expensive otherwise.

IMO the only way reloading doesn't pan out very well is in a few limited circumstances, like not having ANY spare time (understandable) or not having the willingness to learn how to do it. For the longest time I was in this latter category, but it turned out to be a lot easier than I thought.

It also might not be viable if you don't shoot a lot. There are some guys I know that -might- get to sneak out to the range 1-3 times a year, and they're well under a case a year. If you're like me though and find you blow through 1-2+ cases a year of .45 or something like that, then it starts looking a LOT more attractive.

Edit: One other way to look at it, (as most reloaders do) if you spend, say, $900 on components instead of
$900 on commercial ammo, you'll still get more reloaded ammo for the same amount of money. In the example
above, $900 gets me 3 cases of blazer brass .45. If I reload with $900 worth of components, I get 4.8 cases of
ammo instead. That's almost 2 extra cases of ammo.

-Mike

 

[Timbob1]

Currently I reload .45 ACP at a cost of $9.25 for 50 rounds, using 230 gr CMJ bullets.

At the cost of the equipment, and the time it takes to reload, I can purchase a box of reloads for 10.95 from my local dealer. For me personally, it doesn't make financial sense to reload right now, in that caliber anyway.

 

[Patriot]

Don't buy a gun in other than a 'standard' caliber.

I saved enough reloading .32 H&R magnum to make a bid on the Sox.

I was paying for 20 rounds (Federal) $14.00. If you stick with 9mm, .45ACP, .40 S&W
you could make a case when purchasing and shooting range fodder, but on any of the
more esoteric loads I can demonstrate quite clearly the HUGE disparity in cost.
Here is my last cost calculator for loading my .32 H&R. A pretty dramatic difference
in my cost. Prices have gone up in the meantime both on the ammo and the components
so it is still a good comparison.

 

[drgrant]

At the cost of the equipment, and the time it takes to reload, I can purchase a box of reloads for 10.95 from my local dealer. For me personally, it doesn't make financial sense to reload right now, in that caliber anyway.

You're lucky then, because I don't know of any commercial reloader that's selling an equivalent product for that price. Even the CPFP stuff that M+M makes is typically $12+ a box most of the time (unless the guy selling it has old stock) and what I'm cranking out in my basement is even a cut above that stuff.

I also get to make the loads to whatever spec I want. Try buying a 230 gr FMJ load from a commercial reloader that's going just shy of 900 fps out of a 5" 1911. Before reloading, that kind of ammo was basically either extremely expensive or unavailable. Now I can create it whenever I want and it costs about the same as any other ammo I make in that caliber.


-Mike

 

[Patriot]

You're lucky then, because I don't know of any commercial reloader that's selling an equivalent product for that price. Even the CPFP stuff that M+M makes is typically $12+ a box most of the time (unless the guy selling it has old stock) and what I'm cranking out in my basement is even a cut above that stuff.

I also get to make the loads to whatever spec I want. Try buying a 230 gr FMJ load from a commercial reloader that's going just shy of 900 fps out of a 5" 1911. Before reloading, that kind of ammo was basically either extremely expensive or unavailable. Now I can create it whenever I want and it costs about the same as any other ammo I make in that caliber.


-Mike

Not to mention using powder that doesn't cause EPA alerts every time you shoot a round
off. I was shooting some MagTech .44 Mag this weekend and my hands and gun looked
like I was shooting in a coal mine. Quite different from my reloads with AA #9...

 

[drumenigma]

I think I just saw one of the biggest jumps in prices at least on one brand of ammo in a week. I got two battle packs of Prvi Partisan last week and they were about $87 a piece for 200 rds to a pack. I just went back to NET yesterday to get some miscellaneous items and the same packs were $97 each. Thats about an 11% increase in one week. I think I'm starting to see price gouging. I'm going to start pricing out the sites that I know that ship to Mass because I think that even with shipping their prices are still better.

 

[Raoul Duke]

I haven't found anywhere in this state that can match out of state/MO prices. It's just that simple. The only truly good deal I've found is 9mm WWB 100/round val packs for 18.50, or .40 WWB val packs for $28 (no tax) in NH Walmarts. Most mail order places can't beat that but when you're talking rifle ammo, particularly good quality, it's got to be MO to get good prices.

 

[Fsorrent]

Went to dick's yesterday and Remington UMC 9mm was 10.98 / box. That was with the case deal. When bought my first case it was $6.80. Then it jumped to $7.60 and I bought 2 cases to stock up. Now it's $10.98? Jeez

 

[Timbob1]

You have a point when it comes to reloading for personal implications.

I someday would like to reload various calibers for accuracy, but just haven't reached that point yet, so I continue to buy the cheap reloads.

 

[MassMark]

Went to dick's yesterday and Remington UMC 9mm was 10.98 / box. That was with the case deal. When bought my first case it was $6.80. Then it jumped to $7.60 and I bought 2 cases to stock up. Now it's $10.98? Jeez

I work at Dicks Sporting Goods and just had this conversation with my manager yesterday. 50-round "Value Packs" are no value - $29.99
The 200-round bulk packs are $99.99 and this is for UMC which is not notorious for being superb ammo...

 

[June4th]

A local store (MA) sells 500rds case of .223 Federal Eagle 55grain FMJ for $169. Fairly good price, I believe.

Edit: The said price was tax-exempt price. It becomes $222 when excise and sales tax are included.

 

[Riverside]

CASE PRICE: $89.80 + (tax $3.98) Remington 9mm 115 grain at Dick's in Dedham.
Minus my rewards certificate for $10.00. $83.79
Last month this product was selling at case price of $10.98 per box.
It is listed as $13.99 a box.
Best Regards.

 

[wolf223]

CASE PRICE: $89.80 + (tax $3.98) Remington 9mm 115 grain at Dick's in Dedham.
Minus my rewards certificate for $10.00. $83.79
Last month this product was selling at case price of $10.98 per box.
It is listed as $13.99 a box.
Best Regards.

case being 500ct or 1000ct?

last two times I went to the Saugus store the lodge was abandoned! so i didn't buy any ammo

 

[Riverside]

The lodge in Dedham was abandoned as well. I waited a few minutes and some other customers drifted in. The sales guy arrived and I told him what I wanted. He was professional and polite. The Remington 9mm is a box of 50. 10x50=500
Best regards.

 

[wolf223]

The lodge in Dedham was abandoned as well. I waited a few minutes and some other customers drifted in. The sales guy arrived and I told him what I wanted. He was professional and polite. The Remington 9mm is a box of 50. 10x50=500
Best regards.

thanks,

the term "case" is subjective...

'case' of beer to me is 24 loose bottles in a cardboard box

when my girl picks up a 'case' of beer for me, it's a 12 pack