Problem Shooters

[Deleted member 12999]

Good article and it brings up a very valid point, and something that some trainers don't normally pick up on:



I'm not a huge ball and dummy fan,, unless the shooter has no idea it's coming. If they know the drill is coming the value drops significantly.

I think what is more effective is to have them balance an object on the slide like a piece of .22 brass or a dime to have them work on their trigger control.

Or, another drill I like to do with 'some' new shooters is to have them exaggerate their eyes being open while live firing. I have them open them until it feels awkward and then tell them to slowly press the trigger. What you are looking for is them to close their eyes/start to squint, as they press. If they do it's because they're mentally anticipating the BANG. people make all kinds of excuses for it, myself included -- but it is what it is. You can't use this drill with 'some' people, or your average new shooter because they're just plain stoopid. But for a person looking to get past a plateau, when I've used this in the past they said it made them more aware of what their body/mind was trying to do.

It's all mental.

Definitely like the wide eye drill. I tried full mags of dummy rounds, and a single live round this past weekend with average shooters. Worked much better than expected. Did 3 mags with single, then doubles, then triples. Improvements with all 3 shooters. I have my worst 2 coming up.

 

[floriduh]

I tried full mags of dummy rounds, and a single live round this past weekend with average shooters. Worked much better than expected.

Oh, I like that drill too. Best spot for the live one is the last spot, or two up. Great drill with a 15 round mag. It's almost like dry-firing, but when they finally catch that live round the point of the drill kicks in, for most. A lot of time when you dry fire new shooters they just go through the motions. So, that drill pushes two points home.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

So, I finally got to dedicate some real time to folks that had issues to work out. I think as an instructor, you really have to focus on experiences that allow them to have that 'aha' moment. I use video to teach, nothing like them watching themselves on computer and say 'ugh... I had no idea it was that blatant'

I did a few things in addition to the before and after stuff. Mag dumps to just force them to confront recoil. Its happening whether you fight it or not, so harden the **** up. I also did the idea in OP. It worked fantastic for this group. Really helped isolate problems, and they self corrected almost every time, once we discussed how it looked to flinch vs jerk trigger. I think they are pretty much two sides of a coin. Once they stopped anticipation recoil, they would then jerk trigger more in attempt to predict gun going off. Once that was sorted, we were good. Drills were done between 7-10 yards depending on shooter. I also did the 'wide eye drill' someone mentioned. Good call on that one.

Obviously one drill isn't be all end all. It just one tool in the toolbox. I don't know how other folks feel, but its really cool to take a mediocre shooter, and get a ragged hole out of their next target.

Before and After Pics
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[fencer]

Bloody brilliant.

 

[neum69]

The two things that really improved my trigger pull were:

1. spend a couple of weeks dry firing an empty double action revolver at the tv. ( That tip was from Adam at Acme Armament)

2 Using the same double action revolver ( 686 ) try to balance a penny or a dime at the end of the barrel and dry fire.

It might sound crazy but it worked for me.

same. I learned these from my first instructor and they have served me well. I think a key with the dry fire is telling the student what to look for when the trigger breaks to assess the quality of the trigger pull.

 

[Wendell]

In a word, I think you are progressing them too fast through the calibers. When I take new shooters to the range, we start with a 617 - 22 revolver with 6" barrel. Absolutely no recoil at all so they can focus on trigger discipline. Once they are comfortable with shooting it and have reasonable groups at 20 feet or so we will progress to a 38 special wadcutter. Once that is mastered we go to 45 acp or 357 mag. If I start to see finch induced shooting, they are not ready for the caliber and recoil yet. Some shooters on the first day just can't handle the recoil of the 45 ACP or 357 Mag on the first outing and you need to treat them as such. I don't like semi-autos at first to introduce new shooters as there is too much going on IMO.

I used to subscribe to this theory. And, for someone who is genuinely brand-new-to-firearms, someone who doesn't yet know what to see (by way of sight picture) or how to control a trigger, the above technique has merit. But if the shooter already knows how to shoot a rifle accurately, and time is limited - as it usually is - you are probably better off going straight to whatever pistol they intend to use.

What I would suggest is employment of the very best PPE available. Good eyewear and earplugs combined with quiet ear muffs will minimize stress on the shooter and better allow the shooter to focus on the task at hand.

 

[fencer]

flinching is a mental response. A fear of recoil or noise. No mechanical drill will fix it until the shooter decides to stop being a pussy

This.

I really don't think it is necessary to start new shooters with a 22 unless they are children. The US military has trained millions of people to shoot with 45. Can't handle recoil and noise? You don't qualify.

 

[Wendell]

...If I start to see finch induced shooting, they are not ready for the caliber and recoil yet...

Maybe. With the shooter under close supervision, and each bullet impact visible to the coach, any shot that strays is discussed. Usually, the shooter can learn - and quickly - the consequence of a flinch, a trigger jerk, or a left or right directed trigger squeeze, and thus fix it.

Sometimes, clearly, the shooter isn't learning from the experience; in those cases, I agree, they are probably not ready for that particular firearm yet.