PRS Scope shopping should really be called Reticle shopping...

"Have I mentioned that I shoot a MIL scope yet? No? Oh, well, I do. Now let me tell you why MOA sucks"

It's friggin hilarious.

You will notice I never say MIL is bad, or worse than MOA, but it's almost a guarantee that this post will get a reply somehow mentioning that MIL is superior.
 
Mil: the math is easier, tough to get your head wrapped around it due to the fact were Americans and use feet and inches,

MOA: Math is more difficult, but easier to understand the concepts as Americans.
 
Boghog1 said:
Mil: the math is easier, tough to get your head wrapped around it due to the fact were Americans and use feet and inches,

MOA: Math is more difficult, but easier to understand the concepts as Americans.
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a mil is a mil and a minute is a minute. If you're converting to a linear measurement to adjust, you're wasting time. Use your reticle as a ruler and keep the measurements angular.

Caveat...unless you have a known range and are trying to gauge the size of an object based on distance and angular measurement.
 
PatMcD said:
"Have I mentioned that I shoot a MIL scope yet? No? Oh, well, I do. Now let me tell you why MOA sucks"

It's friggin hilarious.

You will notice I never say MIL is bad, or worse than MOA, but it's almost a guarantee that this post will get a reply somehow mentioning that MIL is superior.
Click to expand...
I don’t think it has to do with one being better than the other, it’s more about being more popular within the game you plan to play with it.
 
MC56 said:
a mil is a mil and a minute is a minute. If you're converting to a linear measurement to adjust, you're wasting time. Use your reticle as a ruler and keep the measurements angular.

Caveat...unless you have a known range and are trying to gauge the size of an object based on distance and angular measurement.
Click to expand...
100% conversation to meters or inches is only needed if trying to range targets or determine target size. If I know I'm 1 mil low on paper (even though I know 1mil@100yd.=3.6inch) I don't care how many inches I need to come up, I just come up 1 mil.
 
I don’t care either way I just like to stir the pot 🫡
PatMcD said:
"Have I mentioned that I shoot a MIL scope yet? No? Oh, well, I do. Now let me tell you why MOA sucks"

It's friggin hilarious.

You will notice I never say MIL is bad, or worse than MOA, but it's almost a guarantee that this post will get a reply somehow mentioning that MIL is superior.
Click to expand...
it’s an internet gun forum. Dumbass debates like this are the only reason these sites exist
 
Ron Jablonski said:
100% conversation to meters or inches is only needed if trying to range targets or determine target size. If I know I'm 1 mil low on paper (even though I know 1mil@100yd.=3.6inch) I don't care how many inches I need to come up, I just come up 1 mil.
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That’s funny, because I’ve never thought to myself “I’m 1.5 mils low” on paper.

I always look at the target and say “I’m 4 inches low, and .5 inches right”, then I have to pull out my phone to make the conversion to mils so I can adjust my scope…

But, I’m a mils guy all the way…
 
Cuz said:
That’s funny, because I’ve never thought to myself “I’m 1.5 mils low” on paper.

I always look at the target and say “I’m 4 inches low, and .5 inches right”, then I have to pull out my phone to make the conversion to mils so I can adjust my scope…

But, I’m a mils guy all the way…
Click to expand...

Look at it through your reticle.
 
Cuz said:
That’s funny, because I’ve never thought to myself “I’m 1.5 mils low” on paper.

I always look at the target and say “I’m 4 inches low, and .5 inches right”, then I have to pull out my phone to make the conversion to mils so I can adjust my scope…

But, I’m a mils guy all the way…
Click to expand...
and that's where you're wasting time and hurting your brain. measure with your reticle subtensions. 8 tenths low? dial 8 tenths up. send another. 100 yards or 1000 yards, 8 tenths in your reticle is 8 tenths on your turret, assuming it's a FFP scope.
 
MC56 said:
and that's where you're wasting time and hurting your brain. measure with your reticle subtensions. 8 tenths low? dial 8 tenths up. send another. 100 yards or 1000 yards, 8 tenths in your reticle is 8 tenths on your turret, assuming it's a FFP scope.
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Yup, this is exactly the kind of stuff I need to learn.
 
I have a MRAD/MIL scope – I guess you can call me a Sniper.

It was a lot cheaper than the MOA version (discontinued reticle) so I went that route... I guess you can call me a Cheap Bastard.
 
MC56 said:
If you're shooting at one known distance target, there are benefits to MOA such as the finer adjustment and the fact most of the other shooters at those matches will be shooting MOA scopes. If you're shooting multiple targets at varying distances, MIL is the way to go. Shooters at those types of matches will generally be shooting MIL scopes so you'll be speaking the same language, and you'll save time dialing multiple targets. A 300yd rimfire shot is roughly 13 mils/130 clicks, compared to roughly 45 MOA/180 clicks. Lot more dialing needed with MOA = wasted time.
Click to expand...

My brain thinks in MOA. But I have been wanting to move over to MIL, so I have spent some time reading.

I have read several articles and watched several videos. They all try to fill space by spending minutes of video or paragraphs telling you what MIL is, blah blah blah...

They usually end up with exactly what you typed, MIL is faster. Done.

The faster dialing and everyone speaking the same language seem to be the only 2 advantages, and usually during PRS.

I always found it interesting how everyone dances around the issue by trying to give me a masters class on angles and measurements.

I am not saying the rest is not interesting. I like it, but sometimes getting straight to the answer is better.
 
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MC56 said:
If you're going Burris, hit up Scott at Liberty Optics and get an XTR Pro. The XTR3 line is made in Philippines now. For Athlon, the Cronus is made by LOW in Japan and the ETR is made in China. I'd recommend spending the extra dough for the Cronus, given your budget. If the price of the ETR is that attractive, buy a used Cronus.

Whatever you choose, get a variant that goes up to at least 20 power, but ideally 30+. Scopes perform best in the middle of their adjustment range, so this will be good for shooting in the 15-20 power range. Also, you may rarely go above 15-20 power, but you'll never be shooting PRS on the 2-3 power bottom end of a 2.5-15 or 3-18.

All of this said, I've been shooting the rimfire season this year with a 3-18 and it's been fine, keep it on 14x. You can certainly get by with a 3-18, but if you're starting from scratch, do it right the first time. I definitely wouldn't want a 3-15, as the eyebox would likely be a bitch at 15x and I tend to run most rimfire stages around 16x when I'm using a higher mag scope. Having a higher mag is also nice for KYL stages with minimal movement/target transitions.
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I just did a long range precision shooting course (random targets 100 to 1100 yards.) I found this thread because I'm researching for a better scope.

The math is definitely much easier for non-fixed distances with mils. I found that adjusting for wind is faster using tree like reticles rather messing with the windage turret. Also in this scenario, I think I would have benefited from an FFP scope.

A PSA. Scott at Librty Optics is a no go. I bought several scopes from him years ago. He disappeared and stiffed many customers. Vortex actually stepped in to help customers that ordered Vortex scopes but did not receive them. The full story is not clear but it looks like he took the money and ran. There is a huge thread on snipers hide if you're interested.
 
tbk5 said:
I just did a long range precision shooting course (random targets 100 to 1100 yards.) I found this thread because I'm researching for a better scope.

The math is definitely much easier for non-fixed distances with mils. I found that adjusting for wind is faster using tree like reticles rather messing with the windage turret. Also in this scenario, I think I would have benefited from an FFP scope.

A PSA. Scott at Librty Optics is a no go. I bought several scopes from him years ago. He disappeared and stiffed many customers. Vortex actually stepped in to help customers that ordered Vortex scopes but did not receive them. The full story is not clear but it looks like he took the money and ran. There is a huge thread on snipers hide if you're interested.
Click to expand...
yea, I posted that before Scott robbed everyone.
 
Admin said:
My highpower/prs group on signal has a few guys who love these. Zero Compromise Optic The clarity of the pics they post is pretty impressive.
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Yeah, there seems to be more than a few of them on the Precision rimfire rifles being used at matches. Not quite as popular as the Vortex 6-36x seems to be. Man, people sure do take their rimfire rifle equipment seriously…
 
Cuz said:
Yeah, there seems to be more than a few of them on the Precision rimfire rifles being used at matches. Not quite as popular as the Vortex 6-36x seems to be. Man, people sure do take their rimfire rifle equipment seriously…
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I think it's like anything hobby wise, once you get hooked the money starts to fly out the window. [smile]
 
Cuz said:
Yeah, there seems to be more than a few of them on the Precision rimfire rifles being used at matches. Not quite as popular as the Vortex 6-36x seems to be. Man, people sure do take their rimfire rifle equipment seriously…
Click to expand...
Might be due to scope elevation . Youll run out of reticle on a 22lr and need the 30+ mils of adjustment .
 
ZCO gets a lot of love, but there is not so insignificant price jump from a Vortex to the ZCO
 
50wt said:
Budget , caliber ?
Click to expand...
Caliber is 6.5 Creedmoor. I was open on budget. I wanted to get a good scope.

I went into a local shop to look through scopes and play with the turrets. I checked out ZCO, Kahles, Nightforce and Vortex. I bought the Vortex Razor HD 6-36 gen3. because I got a smoking deal on the floor model. It was less than the new Europtic exclusive black version. Even at the regular price for the vortex, I could not see/feel enough of a difference to justify the extra dollars for the other brands. They're building a range a few towns over that will supposedly go up to 1400 yards. If true, there will be a new rifle and scope with my name on it for a retirement present in a couple of years. I'll re-assess then.

Vortex already came though for me. I did not realize that the flip cap for the eyepiece was not in the box. I wrote to vortex asking how I could get one and they immediately shipped a new set at no cost.

I went to the range yesterday to zero the scope. I'll admit that I had a tough time using their zero system. I like it, just wasn't used to it. I did not bring my sled. I had the rifle on a bipod. Holding the rifle steafy while adjusting the windage is apparently more than I am capable of... It took me a few more rounds than usual to get it locked in.

I really like this scope. I only shot at 100yds to zero the scope. Next weekend I'll test the tracking.
 
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tbk5 said:
Caliber is 6.5 Creedmoor. I was open on budget. I wanted to get a good scope.

I went into a local shop to look through scopes and play with the turrets. I checked out ZCO, Kahles, Nightforce and Vortex. I bought the Vortex Razor HD 6-36 gen3. because I got a smoking deal on the floor model. It was less than the new Europtic exclusive black version. Even at the regular price for the vortex, I could not see/feel enough of a difference to justify the extra dollars for the other brands. They're building a range a few towns over that will supposedly go up to 1800 yards. If true, there will be a new rifle and scope with my name on it for a retirement present in a couple of years. I'll re-assess then.

Vortex already came though for me. I did not realize that the flip cap for the eyepiece was not in the box. I wrote to vortex asking how I could get one and they immediately shipped a new set at no cost.

I went to the range yesterday to zero the scope. I'll admit that I had a tough time using their zero system. I like it, just wasn't used to it. I did not bring my sled. I had the rifle on a bipod. Holding the rifle steafy while adjusting the windage is apparently more than I am capable of... It took me a few more rounds than usual to get it locked in.

I really like this scope. I only shot at 100yds to zero the scope. Next weekend I'll test the tracking.
Click to expand...
Which shop had all those scopes?
 

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