Question for FFL's re: Handguns and "Other"

[Qwikdraw45]

Question for FFL's: If I buy a handgun at a shop, and later buy an AR lower (which the last place called an "other" and ran it through the NH GunLine even though it had a rifle stock), will that trigger the "two handguns in 5 business days" flag for the A-F-T? Or does "other" not meet that criteria? Thanks!

 

[Marty McFly]

Lol

 

[FalArAk]

Not usually..

But this thread will trigger all the NES statists to call their buddies in the AFT and check you out.

Live free or die?

I think not!!!

 

[42!]

Question for FFL's: If I buy a handgun at a shop, and later buy an AR lower (which the last place called an "other" and ran it through the NH GunLine even though it had a rifle stock), will that trigger the "two handguns in 5 business days" flag for the A-F-T? Or does "other" not meet that criteria? Thanks!

who cares, 2 is nothing. I've done more than that in one day. The ATF doesn't care that much.

You're overthinking the situation

 

[Rick O'Shea]

I spread my purchases out by a few days and never at the same shop twice in a row in a week. I love my dog,..

 

[Asaltweapon]

What’s an AFT?

 

[one-eyed Jack]

Not your problem. The dealer may submit a certain form if needed. Jack.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

What’s an AFT?

It's what Joe calls his bois.

Not your problem. The dealer may submit a certain form if needed. Jack.

I know; I'd rather that they not is all.

******************************
I spread my purchases out by a few days and never at the same shop twice in a row in a week. I love my dog,..

I gave you a Like, instead of a laugh; It's sort of funny, but with a dark undertone since you can be half serious.

 

[safetyfirst2125]

I once bought 5 in one day, handguns, shotgun, rifles.

I guess I’m on all the lists! Wheeeeeee!

That explains the black helicopters and weird noises on my cell phone.

 

[Darkslide]

The ATF website states that frames are not firearms, so it doesn’t count toward multiple firearm purchases.

 

[FPrice]

I once bought 5 in one day, handguns, shotgun, rifles.

I guess I’m on all the lists! Wheeeeeee!

No wonder the rest of us have a difficult time finding things...

YOU'RE HOARDING!

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I suspect "other" was created so that AR15 frames would no longer be considered rifles for the purpose of the 4473, and therefore, not eligible for legal purchase by out of state residents.

I had 5 handgun frames transferred in a single transaction. I saw the dealer fill out the multiple handgun form, but never heard from anyone. Perhaps nobody looked, or the peson who did saw serial numbers like 9X19, 45ACP and the like and figured out I was not outfitting the local gangs.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The ATF website states that frames are not firearms, so it doesn’t count toward multiple firearm purchases.

Can you show exactly where? I would be surprised if they actually said "not firearms" rather than "not handguns, rifles or shotguns" ..... but I have been surprised before. This is not a rhetorical question - I am really interested in the answer.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

I spread my purchases out by a few days and never at the same shop twice in a row in a week. I love my dog,..

View attachment 691196

Can you show exactly where? I would be surprised if they actually said "not firearms" rather than "not handguns, rifles or shotguns" ..... but I have been surprised before. This is not a rhetorical question - I am really interested in the answer.

I suppose this answers the question.


Now to piggyback on the original question, since the receiver I bought already had a rifle stock attached, shouldn't it have been classified as a "rifle" rather than "other", since it could not then be made into a pistol?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

View attachment 691261
I suppose this answers the question.


Now to piggyback on the original question, since the receiver I bought already had a rifle stock attached, shouldn't it have been classified as a "rifle" rather than "other", since it could not then be made into a pistol?

It absolutely does, and confirms my suspicion that the BATFE did not actually use the term "not firearms". Many thanks.

 

[Darkslide]

Can you show exactly where? I would be surprised if they actually said "not firearms" rather than "not handguns, rifles or shotguns" ..... but I have been surprised before. This is not a rhetorical question - I am really interested in the answer.

Does a licensee need to complete and submit a multiple sales form after selling, within five consecutive business days, two or more frames or receivers? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

No. Multiple sales forms (ATF Forms 3310.4) are not required for sales of frames or receivers as they are not pistols or revolvers. [18 U.SC 923(g)(3); 27 CFR 478.126a]

www.atf.gov

My mistake, it said not pistols or revolvers, doesn’t say firearms.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Does a licensee need to complete and submit a multiple sales form after selling, within five consecutive business days, two or more frames or receivers? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

No. Multiple sales forms (ATF Forms 3310.4) are not required for sales of frames or receivers as they are not pistols or revolvers. [18 U.SC 923(g)(3); 27 CFR 478.126a]

www.atf.gov

My mistake, it said not pistols or revolvers, doesn’t say firearms.

Your link confirms Rob's theory. They still recognize the frame as a firearm, just not a handgun - which is what the form tracks.

MA doesn't recognize frames as firearms. Also, MA calls handguns "firearms" distinct from rifles or shotguns. But that's not the ATF terminology.

 

[Arlo39]

Question for FFL's: If I buy a handgun at a shop, and later buy an AR lower (which the last place called an "other" and ran it through the NH GunLine even though it had a rifle stock), will that trigger the "two handguns in 5 business days" flag for the A-F-T? Or does "other" not meet that criteria? Thanks!

I’m guessing you are referring to Sec. C Number 24 on the 4473 for category of Handgun, Long Gun (rifle,shotgun) or Other Firearm (Frame, Receiver, Etc.). The shop most likely did both through NH Gunline to save time because there was a handgun. If NH Gunline is using the NICS E-Check website they can do both at once.

 

[Qwikdraw45]

I’m guessing you are referring to Sec. C Number 24 on the 4473 for category of Handgun, Long Gun (rifle,shotgun) or Other Firearm (Frame, Receiver, Etc.). The shop most likely did both through NH Gunline to save time because there was a handgun. If NH Gunline is using the NICS E-Check website they can do both at once.

No. This was one item. A "complete lower" with a rifle stock. They called it an "other" and used the NH Gunline for the check. I walked away from the transaction (after they started the check), since they only fax, and it took 3 days. I wanted it for a rifle, and expected to go home in about 5 minutes.

 

[drgrant]

A pile of lowers does not get an mhp form

It's not worth worrying about regardless.

 

[drgrant]

No. This was one item. A "complete lower" with a rifle stock. They called it an "other" and used the NH Gunline for the check. I walked away from the transaction (after they started the check), since they only fax, and it took 3 days. I wanted it for a rifle, and expected to go home in about 5 minutes.

They only fax? Who told you that? They were doing them live last time I witnessed the process.... lazy gun shop? Lol

 

[Qwikdraw45]

They only fax? Who told you that? They were doing them live last time I witnessed the process.... lazy gun shop? Lol

That particular store's policy. Fax only, since they are short-staffed and don't have time to wait on the phone for the GL (for handguns). Another store in Claremont will do phone or fax, but loves the fax line.

 

[drgrant]

That particular store's policy. Fax only, since they are short-staffed and don't have time to wait on the phone for the GL (for handguns). Another store in Claremont will do phone or fax, but loves the fax line.

I would have left the shit on the counter (unless it was an inbound transfer) and walked out. If backed into a corner id give them the black cross afterwards. Some dealers are their own worst enemy i guess. It was one thing to fax when the state forced it, but now to mandate it as a store policy they're just f***ing the customer and creating more work.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Your link confirms Rob's theory. They still recognize the frame as a firearm, just not a handgun - which is what the form tracks.

MA doesn't recognize frames as firearms. Also, MA calls handguns "firearms" distinct from rifles or shotguns. But that's not the ATF terminology.

And you cannot posses an item defined by MA law as a firearm with a Firearms Identification Card (though you might be able to use the assistant AG's misstatement of face in the Moyer case as the bases of an entrapment by estoppel defense).

 

[Len-2A Training]

They only fax? Who told you that? They were doing them live last time I witnessed the process.... lazy gun shop? Lol

I've purchased 2 handguns from Sig Academy's store. In both cases they Faxed the form to NHSP and told me that it was faster and more efficient than sitting on the phone on hold. In both cases, the OK came within less than 1 hour.

I would have left the shit on the counter (unless it was an inbound transfer) and walked out. If backed into a corner id give them the black cross afterwards. Some dealers are their own worst enemy i guess. It was one thing to fax when the state forced it, but now to mandate it as a store policy they're just f***ing the customer and creating more work.

See above. They claimed that response time was better with a Faxed form.

When I picked up a gun (inbound transfer) at 619DW, Keith called it in and I was done within minutes. I think due to the high volume of sales at Sig, their way is more efficient for them, allowing them to process more customers/hour than sitting on hold forever. For lower volume stores, calling it in may be quicker/more efficient.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I've purchased 2 handguns from Sig Academy's store. In both cases they Faxed the form to NHSP and told me that it was faster and more efficient than sitting on the phone on hold. In both cases, the OK came within less than 1 hour.

See above. They claimed that response time was better with a Faxed form.

When I picked up a gun (inbound transfer) at 619DW, Keith called it in and I was done within minutes. I think due to the high volume of sales at Sig, their way is more efficient for them, allowing them to process more customers/hour than sitting on hold forever. For lower volume stores, calling it in may be quicker/more efficient.

Guess they never heard of that internet thing way up in NH.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Guess they never heard of that internet thing way up in NH.

Only a few Villages have electricity, it'll be a while before that newfangled thing called internet might be available.

 

[drgrant]

I've purchased 2 handguns from Sig Academy's store. In both cases they Faxed the form to NHSP and told me that it was faster and more efficient than sitting on the phone on hold. In both cases, the OK came within less than 1 hour.

See above. They claimed that response time was better with a Faxed form.

When I picked up a gun (inbound transfer) at 619DW, Keith called it in and I was done within minutes. I think due to the high volume of sales at Sig, their way is more efficient for them, allowing them to process more customers/hour than sitting on hold forever. For lower volume stores, calling it in may be quicker/more efficient.

I'm actually shocked the fax was that fast. Then again I will admit I don't know what it is in "fall of 2022" just that it sucked horribly when it was the fax only universe. After the shop I worked at went to direct, we never went back to fax unless the state forced us to for some specific reason. The '"fax only NH gun line universe" in spring 2020 was background checks queued up for about 2-5 days on average, but we had other people 2 weeks, and I had one woman that was held out on a limb for a f***ing month. I was so pissed about that lady's situation we just started sending a dupe of her BG check sheet every day. After a couple days of that crapflooding it finally got done. Mind you, this wasnt someone with a delay or anything just them dragging ass.

Not offerering to call direct though above all else as the default though is box store shit.

Then again Sig, box store gonna box, not surprised at that.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'm actually shocked the fax was that fast. Then again I will admit I don't know what it is in "fall of 2022" just that it sucked horribly when it was the fax only universe. After the shop I worked at went to direct, we never went back to fax unless the state forced us to for some specific reason. The '"fax only NH gun line universe" in spring 2020 was background checks queued up for about 2-5 days on average, but we had other people 2 weeks, and I had one woman that was held out on a limb for a f***ing month. I was so pissed about that lady's situation we just started sending a dupe of her BG check sheet every day. After a couple days of that crapflooding it finally got done. Mind you, this wasnt someone with a delay or anything just them dragging ass.

Not offerering to call direct though above all else as the default though is box store shit.

Then again Sig, box store gonna box, not surprised at that.

Sig was in late 2019. The first was their special sale/freeze your ass off waiting in line and they only let a few people in the store at a time so that the sales people could help all the customers in the store. They sold a boatload of guns that day, so to keep things moving it made sense to Fax it and move on to the next customer. The second time was a few weeks later and a more sane flow of customers.

 

[Arlo39]

No. This was one item. A "complete lower" with a rifle stock. They called it an "other" and used the NH Gunline for the check. I walked away from the transaction (after they started the check), since they only fax, and it took 3 days. I wanted it for a rifle, and expected to go home in about 5 minutes.

On the 4473 it is a Category Other for Sec.C number 24 because it’s not a complete rifle only a completed lower receiver. If you were buying Remington 700 action complete with a trigger group but no barrel or bolt it would be an Other (Frame, Receiver, Etc.) for the 4473. Why the FFL would be going through NH Gunline for that I don’t know.