Range Safety Officers? Success or Failure?

[DISTINGUISHED PISTOL SHOT]

OK, heres the question. A New England Club (which will remain nameless) has approx. 1,000 members and they have a Range Safety Officer Process or Program. But, the problem is they only have 24 "Certified" RSO's out of those 1,000 members. Do You consider this a Failure or Success?? Comments please. Knowing that little about the issue, is the RSO Program too difficult to complete?

 

[stoneypete]

If the RSO's are volunteer, I'd say the problem is more folks unwilling to step up. I have a job, wife, 3 children, church, extended family, a life and my hobby. I do not have time right now to give the time required to be an RSO at a club.

 

[eisenhow]

Is their certification an NRA RSO, or is it "club certified" RSO? The former is a day a in a classroom, a multiple choice test, and a check. If it's the later, who know?

 

[Len-2A Training]

I am an NRA Certified RSO and volunteer as such at Braintree R&P. So I'll offer some insight.

- The RSO program at BR&P apparently existed for very many years from what I've been told, but it was relatively informal.

- A number of bullets hit a commercial building some ~700 yds from the pistol range firing line and BR&P closed all outdoor ranges to investigate and make improvements. This occurred ~5-6 years ago. NRA range experts investigated and determined that the bullets didn't come from the club's ranges but were likely fired from a wooded area near the MBTA right-of-way . . . if they were on BR&P property it was as trespassers from the bordering property line. The NRA range expert report stated that the club should NOT allow outdoor shooting without ROs on duty, thus the club committed to the building owner and Braintree PD that we would only allow outdoor shooting with ROs on duty. Subsequently I volunteered . . . many bitched about the requirement, but a few of us decided to help out to make sure that the ranges stay open. I don't know the numbers but there were probably 30-40 active (and some number of "stand-by") ROs. Most of us were not NRA Certified RSOs, but a handful were.

- The club ran an NRA Certified RSO course so we could get NRA Certified as such. I took it, it was the most boring day I've ever spent at a gun club in my life. Other than pushing SOPs (mostly common sense stuff, first aid kits, someone call 911 in an emergency, someone by road to direct an ambulance, etc.) there really wasn't much "meat" for volunteering at a social gun club. It is mostly geared to commercial gun ranges where they rent guns/sell ammo/rent range time. [NOTE: If you take this course, take it from Jon Green . . . he makes it interesting by spending significant time evaluating each range at a club that hosts it . . . this is material that is NOT part of the NRA course, but makes it interesting and a good learning experience.]

- BR&P policy is that EVERY member is an RO when on the property and should observe/take action if it can be done safely if they see something unsafe or if an incident happens. I was a club RO for probably 3-4 years before taking the NRA Certified RSO course. Do I feel that I'm a better RSO due to being NRA Certified? NO!! Most of it is common sense and I do not think that the NRA course is all that great and could be greatly improved.

- Most clubs only use RSOs for events, not for every day activity, so there isn't a need to have massive numbers of Certified RSOs. The course cost BR&P a significant amount of money (the club paid for our course, we only paid to be NRA Certified) and most clubs can't/won't pay for that and thus requiring volunteers to get certified at their own expense (~$80-100) isn't reasonable. Thus you don't get a ton of NRA Certified volunteers.

- Since BR&P requires an RO to be on duty at all times when the outdoor ranges are open, we have more ROs than an average club to cover those shifts. Even so, I would guess that we only have about 40 active RSOs and we have ~3300 members (but only 500/year use the club facilities according to the card-key system). Unless you feel a need for one RSO to stand over the shoulders of every 1-2 shooters, all you should need for non-events is 1-2 at the club at any one time.

 

[garandman]

BRP only has a small number of RSO's because they are all cronies of one individual, so not a good example.

 

[MisterHappy]

Let's make sure that we have our terms correct:
Range Officer is often a different thing From Range Safety Officer

IMO an RSO is "certified" e.g. NRA's RSO program. A Range Officer is merely a person in charge of a range.

I've told my kids that when they are pulling or scoring on the Trap field, they are Range Officers, and they are in charge. Period. They call "cease fire," fire ceases.

They're not NRA certified RSOs, but they have more experience than a lot of the shooters, and, more importantly, they have a view of the entire field.

 

[Len-2A Training]

BRP only has a small number of RSO's because they are all cronies of one individual, so not a good example.

Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about.

You have no idea what the process is for becoming an RO at BR&P nor who most of them are. There are quite a few who are relatively new shooters and/or in their 20s and 30s. It's not all "old timers". I know that there are a handful of ROs who have been accused of being busy-bodies, but the ones I've worked with or seen working are really laid back as long as you follow the club's (and NRA's) basic safety rules. We don't stand over people's shoulders. We may strike up a conversation if we see something interesting/odd on the line, but no more/less than if we were "just shooters". Last month I got into a long conversation with a club member who had the exact same model Bushmaster .22LR AR-15 that I own and we were discussing the numerous problems he had with his (it was an earlier model) . . . I had never seen another one of these models before.

In spite of large membership, BR&P doesn't need a lot of ROs . . . only 2 (usually) are scheduled to work at any time and we can handily cover the three outdoor ranges. All the club rules are in the printed booklet that new members get, read/discussed at the new member orientation and available on the website.

Anyone who knows me knows that nobody "owns" me. I'm nobody's crony. Our CRO is very laid back as long as basic safety isn't compromised.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Let's make sure that we have our terms correct:
Range Officer is often a different thing From Range Safety Officer

IMO an RSO is "certified" e.g. NRA's RSO program. A Range Officer is merely a person in charge of a range.

I've told my kids that when they are pulling or scoring on the Trap field, they are Range Officers, and they are in charge. Period. They call "cease fire," fire ceases.

They're not NRA certified RSOs, but they have more experience than a lot of the shooters, and, more importantly, they have a view of the entire field.

I admit to using the term RO and RSO interchangeably. In my mind an RSO may or may NOT be NRA Certified. In fact, IDPA/Appleseed/etc. have their own RSOs that they certify to whatever standards they have.

All ROs and RSOs are supposed to manage range safety. In a match/organized shoot (e.g. trap/skeet/etc.) you are right that a Range Officer is the person in charge of the range for the event and the job is a lot more involved than range safety. Not sure how to differentiate that better. I interpreted the OP's question to be about safety officers (no matter what they are called).

 

[garandman]

Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about.//.

I'll just say I disagree. As long as someone is there when I want to shoot, it's all good. I volunteered to do it back when the whole adventure with the outside range first started. The highlight was when a fellow (a CO, to boot) decided to show me his new Romanian AK by pointing it at me. That was when I wished I had the brass rods DI's carry to beat him with it....

I think the certification program is a good idea, even if it is boring. If you want excitement, try running a tank range or being SO with moving targets and moving tanks. Index HEP, fire SABOT and you've just put a round about 30km outside the park....

 

[Len-2A Training]

I'll just say I disagree. As long as someone is there when I want to shoot, it's all good. I volunteered to do it back when the whole adventure with the outside range first started. The highlight was when a fellow (a CO, to boot) decided to show me his new Romanian AK by pointing it at me. That was when I wished I had the brass rods DI's carry to beat him with it....

If said CO has a Z in his name, I'd like to know. I'll hold him while you beat him . . . as he certainly knows better. I don't believe that he's an active RO, he might be a stand-by RO. He's a friend, but everyone can screw up and calling someone on it, no matter who he/she is, is fair game and should be done. I've seen some old-timers do some very stupid things and I did make an issue of it at a recent RO meeting.

In general, I have found people in LE to be more sloppy about firearms safety than non-LEOs.

 

[wolf223]

I'd find a new club

 

[Taipan01]

Sorry but you have no idea what you're talking about.

You have no idea what the process is for becoming an RO at BR&P nor who most of them are. There are quite a few who are relatively new shooters and/or in their 20s and 30s. It's not all "old timers". I know that there are a handful of ROs who have been accused of being busy-bodies, but the ones I've worked with or seen working are really laid back as long as you follow the club's (and NRA's) basic safety rules. We don't stand over people's shoulders. We may strike up a conversation if we see something interesting/odd on the line, but no more/less than if we were "just shooters". Last month I got into a long conversation with a club member who had the exact same model Bushmaster .22LR AR-15 that I own and we were discussing the numerous problems he had with his (it was an earlier model) . . . I had never seen another one of these models before.

In spite of large membership, BR&P doesn't need a lot of ROs . . . only 2 (usually) are scheduled to work at any time and we can handily cover the three outdoor ranges. All the club rules are in the printed booklet that new members get, read/discussed at the new member orientation and available on the website.

Anyone who knows me knows that nobody "owns" me. I'm nobody's crony. Our CRO is very laid back as long as basic safety isn't compromised.

That would be me. But you left out the part that my targets on the plinking range were taught pieces of angeled string. You gotta throw a guy a bone Len.

 

[Len-2A Training]

That would be me. But you left out the part that my targets on the plinking range were taught pieces of angeled string. You gotta throw a guy a bone Len.

Nice to meet you. You shot it well too!

BTW, I filled the charging handle with silicone caulk as JonJ had suggested some months ago. Tried it out and one case was so badly jammed that it took 2 people, 3 hands and a tool to remove it from above the bolt.

 

[securityboy]

OK, heres the question. A New England Club (which will remain nameless) has approx. 1,000 members and they have a Range Safety Officer Process or Program. But, the problem is they only have 24 "Certified" RSO's out of those 1,000 members. Do You consider this a Failure or Success?? Comments please. Knowing that little about the issue, is the RSO Program too difficult to complete?

My club has virtually the same numbers, bout 1000 members w/ about 30 "RSO's" (currently about 1/2 certified). We are revamping the entire "safety" aspect of the club, and as part of that expect significant changes to our club's RSO program in the next few months.

First and foremost all RSO's will be certified, some may consider it "the most boring" day at the range, but I'd rather the club stand behind a certified RSO than someone who got thier "authority" just by being friends with whoever name the RSO's... (to that end we now have 3 NRA certifed Chief RSO's, who can train/certify NRA RSO's)

As with every organization, the most difficult part is often finding dedicated reliable member volunteers, which is why you see only 3% of your club's (and mine) members are RSOs...

 

[Taipan01]

Nice to meet you. You shot it well too!

BTW, I filled the charging handle with silicone caulk as JonJ had suggested some months ago. Tried it out and one case was so badly jammed that it took 2 people, 3 hands and a tool to remove it from above the bolt.

Not trying to steal the thread but write to Bushmasters customer service about it. The upper I had that day is only 9 months old. They had me send my old upper out to AZ and replaced it. They may have you do the same. If for nothing else, they have always done right by me.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Not trying to steal the thread but write to Bushmasters customer service about it. The upper I had that day is only 9 months old. They had me send my old upper out to AZ and replaced it. They may have you do the same. If for nothing else, they have always done right by me.

Will do. Thanks.

 

[Taildrag15X]

I was lucky to get in the NRA RSO Course that the VSRPA put on last weekend as our "Club" does not have a RSO....even one that someone would cal an RSO. I will be running the High Power/F-Class matches at that Range and wanted to refresh myself and get the NRA Certificate, I also plan to take the NRA CRSO Course in my free time over the next winter if possible.

I'm not sure why the cost for the class is as high as listed in this post, the NRA charge is $25 for the Matierial packet which includes your test (which is open book) and info on how to set up some baic SOP's if your Range is still in the stone age (which is due to the Board) and think that every one is going to be the perfect person while on the property. The CRSO's (3 total and they each had our attention) that taught the course do not charge for it, they do it free for their time to help promote SAFETY, one of them is the coach of the UVM Womens Shooting Sports Team.

I was happy to sit through the class and take the test, the results and check (another $26) are in the hands of USPS on it's way to the NRA. For $51 out of pocket I think it's worth it.

 

[n1heu]

Len, not to belabor the point, but in regards to:
"- A number of bullets hit a commercial building some ~700 yds from the pistol range firing line and BR&P closed all outdoor ranges to investigate and make improvements."

An NRA range engineer and other investigations revealed that the bullet strikes in all probability did not come from our firing lines. The ranges were temporarily closed while investigations and the range engineer's suggested improvements to our pistol ranges were made as you correctly state. The RO program was in answer to our neighbors concerns about possible safety issues on outdoor ranges. BRP e-bd takes the safety concerns of neighbors seriously and the RO program is the result. It only works because of the dedicated people that give up a few hours weekly (or monthly) to confirm our safe operation. They are not babysitters, and yes BRP trusts its members and no the RO's are not all cronies. They ensure that if bullet A strikes building X we have two people (RO and shooter) to give accounting of what may or may not have occurred, and to tell neighbors that no one is on the range alone. It's a good system and if you check the schedule on the board at the club you will see double and triple coverage so RO's are rarely absent. In light of the sprawl of the town around the range it is a small price to ensure an open outdoor range. One consequence of RO's on the range is the comfort level when 100 yards down range changing targets and worrying your rifle is laying on a bench. Guns have never been stolen from ranges at BRP but a shotgun was stolen from an open trunk at Holbrook a few years ago. Many ranges have installed cameras for the same reasons but the RO's are more proactive and less reactive.
As usual I speak for myself and not for BRP or the e-board of same.