Real Estate Open House. Guns locked up, does all ammo have to be locked for broker

depicts

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Showing my house soon. I have all my firearms locked in safes. Ammo fills another two Stack-On cabinets with built in locks.

Can someone tell me specifically if all ammo must be under lock and key when the broker shows the home? I have a few ammo cans with reloads in them, not locked. Should I remove them from the house while the agent is showing the property?

Thanks.

I am sure this has been covered a zillion times. Type of question used to get you scrivened! [wink]
 

M1911

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There is a fire-safety regulation that requires all ammunition to be locked up, regardless of who is, or is not, in the home. So it is probably best to find some way to lock it all up.
 

depicts

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M1911, all I can think of is I'll have to go to the range tomorrow and eliminate my few extra cans of ammo. Sounds like a fun project after all the pre-sale stress I'm feeling.
 
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There is a fire-safety regulation that requires all ammunition to be locked up, regardless of who is, or is not, in the home. So it is probably best to find some way to lock it all up.

If I had an ammunition display board, would all the rounds have to be duds?
 
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If I had an ammunition display board, would all the rounds have to be duds?

in ma, yes. i was recently told (by instructor/leo) that all ammo must be stored in a locked container. doesnt have to be a safe or even fireproof tho. he did say if there ever was a fire and someone was injured because of the ammo you could be held responsible.
 

OnTheRoad

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If it was for the sake of showing the house for a day and not frightening potential buyers, I'd stack it in a big cardboard box (or 2, or 3), tape the boxes shut, write "Xmas Decorations" on the outside and shove them in a corner of the basement. But that's just me.
 
F

Finalygotabeltfed

If it was for the sake of showing the house for a day and not frightening potential buyers, I'd stack it in a big cardboard box (or 2, or 3), tape the boxes shut, write "Xmas Decorations" on the outside and shove them in a corner of the basement. But that's just me.

This ^^^^, unless its an NES'r only open house.
 

GSG

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If I had an ammunition display board, would all the rounds have to be duds?

Legally duds and live ammo are the same thing in Mass., both require a license/exemption from licensing and proper storage.

in ma, yes. i was recently told (by instructor/leo) that all ammo must be stored in a locked container. doesnt have to be a safe or even fireproof tho.

Correct.

he did say if there ever was a fire and someone was injured because of the ammo you could be held responsible.

Questionable, to say the least. It's never been tested in a higher court, but I strongly doubt it would go anywhere. Complying with the law generally satisfies any duty of care with weapons in Mass. Proving that kind of negligence goes beyond a blanket statement like the one the instructor made.
 

bostonasphalt2

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Legally duds and live ammo are the same thing in Mass., both require a license/exemption from licensing and proper storage.



Correct.



Questionable, to say the least. It's never been tested in a higher court, but I strongly doubt it would go anywhere. Complying with the law generally satisfies any duty of care with weapons in Mass. Proving that kind of negligence goes beyond a blanket statement like the one the instructor made.

Plus the fact that rounds nit in the gun aren't going to fly everywhere .....
 

JGreen

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Had this in the Outdoor Message a few months back:

Ammunition Storage and Limits
By Jon Green Director of Education and Training
The staff has been receiving a high number of calls from citizens concerning ammunition “laws” in the Commonwealth. This give me a great opportunity to review, rewrite and share more information with our members concerning this sometimes confusing topic.
Citizens should be aware that Massachusetts law requires a person in possession of ammunition and or ammunition components to be “licensed”. The FID card or LTC meet this requirement. We now look at our Codes of Massachusetts Regulations or CMR’s to determine how much ammunition we can possess and also how we must store it.
We should be familiar with 527 CMR 13.00 as this section provides key definitions and protocols for people possessing ammunition and components. It falls under Fire Prevention Regulations. Most important is 527 CMR 13.04. This section conveys the types and amounts of cartridges/components we may possess/store with nothing more than our FID card or LTC:
13.04: Licenses, Registrations, Permits and Certificates
(1) Exemption: License, Registration, or Permit: In accordance with the provisions of M.G.L.
c. 148 § 13, the Board hereby prescribes the following quantities of explosive materials that shall
be exempt from License, Registration, and Permit and may be kept, or stored in a building or
other structure:
(a) Small Arms Ammunition
1. Not more than 10,000 rounds of rim fire ammunition.
2. Not more than 10,000 rounds of center fire ammunition.
3. Not more than 5,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition.
(b) Small Arms Ammunition Primers
1. Not more than 1,000 caps or other small arms primers.
(c) Smokeless Propellants
1. Not more than 16 pounds.
2. Persons under 18 years of age may not keep or store Smokeless Propellants.
3. Not more than two pounds of such propellant shall be stored in a multiple family
dwelling or a building of public access.
(d) Black Powder
1. Not more than two pounds.
2. Persons under 18 years of age may not keep or store black powder.
(e) Exempt quantities of small arms ammunition, primers, smokeless propellants and black
powder shall be stored in original containers and such containers shall be stored in a locked
cabinet, closet or box when not in use.
Many shooters have found that reloading their fired cartridge cases to be a fun and economical way to shoot more. The major rub is that this group typically purchases primers in containers of 5,000. This now would require a permit from your local fire chief.
This permit allows the holder to store
(2) Storage By Permit: In accordance with the provisions of M.G.L. c. 148 § 13, the Board
hereby prescribes the following quantities of explosive materials that shall be exempt from
License, and Registration, and may be kept, or stored in a building or other structure provided
a permit has been obtained from the head of the local fire department;
(a) Small Arms Ammunition: Private Use. Small arms ammunition in amounts over that
specified in 527 CMR 13.04(1), that do not exceed 100,000 total rounds at any one time, may
be kept for private use provided none of the individual limitations listed below are exceeded.
1. 10,001 to 30,000 rounds of rim fire ammunition.
2. 10,001 to 50,000 rounds of center fire ammunition not to include shotgun ammunition.
3. 10,001 to 50,000 rounds of shotgun ammunition not to include center fire
ammunition.
(c) Small Arms Ammunition Primers: Private Use
Not to exceed 10,000 Small Arms Ammunition Primers.
(e) Smokeless Propellants: Private Use
1. Not to exceed 48 pounds Smokeless Propellants.
2. Persons under 18 years of age may not keep or store Smokeless Propellants.
3. The head of the local fire department may limit the quantity of smokeless propellants
stored by permit to as low as two pounds if such propellant shall be stored in a multiple
family dwelling or a building of public access.
1. Not to exceed five pounds of black powder.
2. Persons under 18 years of age may not keep or store black powder.
3. The head of the local fire department may limit the quantity of black powder stored
by permit to as low as two pounds if such black powder shall be stored in a multiple
family dwelling or a building of public access.
Please note that I have removed sections containing commercial amounts to save space.
The cost and length that this permit is good for rests solely with your local fire chief.
527 CMR 13.11 shall apply to the transportation and storage of small arms ammunition,
primers and components, smokeless propellants and black powder. It states that we cannot transport more than 5,000 primers in a private vehicle. What really struck me was that the very next line states that no more than 5,000 primers shall be stored in a residence! It appears that 527 CMR 13.11 and 527 CMR 13.04 contradict one another regarding storage amounts, Thank you Mr. McDermott for bringing my attention to 13.11 and the regulations regarding transport.
Do remember the following important points:
1. Jim Finnerty teaches a great NRA reloading course at GOAL
2. Cartridges, primers, propellant and powder must be stored in a locked cabinet, closet or box when not in use.
3. Apply for a permit to store more than the exempted amounts with your local fire chief
4. Visit http://www.lawlib.state.ma.us/source/mass/cmr/cmrtext/527CMR13.pdf to read the complete 527 CMR 13.00
 
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If it was for the sake of showing the house for a day and not frightening potential buyers, I'd stack it in a big cardboard box (or 2, or 3), tape the boxes shut, write "Xmas Decorations" on the outside and shove them in a corner of the basement. But that's just me.

Probably the easiest solution. I went to an open house in Middleboro and the owner had a 1903 Springfield and a few other bolt action rifles on a hanging gun rack right out in the open. I was surprised the broker didn't ask the guy to put them away. Would have been awkward if someone walked out with one.
 
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In the interests of maintaining privacy about my belongings, I would store any firearm and ammunition related items away just as I would with my jewelry box. Why invite trouble? Not all real estate "lookers" are shopping for homes.
 
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Bad guy crashing through my sliding door.
Do I tell him to wait a minute while I unlock a pistol AND go to unlock ammo that needs to be locked as well?
 

mcb

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Bad guy crashing through my sliding door.
Do I tell him to wait a minute while I unlock a pistol AND go to unlock ammo that needs to be locked as well?

I've learned the sound of racking the slide will stop the threat, why even waste money on ammo?
 
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In the interests of maintaining privacy about my belongings, I would store any firearm and ammunition related items away just as I would with my jewelry box. Why invite trouble? Not all real estate "lookers" are shopping for homes.

Being a real estate broker, I can attest to this as fact! I once had an open house that was attended by many people. After the open house was done, I walked around and checked to make sure all doors and windows were still locked. I found one to be unlocked. Now I cannot say for sure that a criminal came in and unlocked the window but it was locked before the open house and unlocked after. And even though I watched everyone closely I never saw anyone unlock that window.

I ask folks to ‘hide’ all firearms and ammo before any showing. I have a lot of clients that are police officers and they always lock everything up. In my home I have my safe in a closet. I installed a lock on the closet door. This gives me a large, secure area to store ammo. That is a $10 fix to your question.
 
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