Recommend me gun with a similar profile to the Sig P229 Compact

Executive said:
I mean this respectfully:
Based on some of your comments, I perceive a general lack of knowledge and firearm experience.
You should invest in some training. Once you are better informed you can make a decision on what firearm meets your needs and best fits your budget.

Chris
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This is great advice. When I first got my LTC I was all over the place with what I thought I wanted, and by doing research online, taking some trips to stores, holding various guns, and going to places where I could shoot them, not only did my tastes change, but, the reality of what works for me became much clearer. there Really is t any substitute for handling and shooting a gun if you aren’t sure if it is right for you.
 
I will second the advice of get some training before purchasing a firearm blind. Massfirearms has an excellent selection of rentals and their prices are not out of wack. Once you find what you like you can look at the used market.

Back to your original question, see if you can shoot the HK p30l or p30 V3. This is the Mass complaint version and they seem to be going for 700 to 800 and it is 100% reliable.
 
M1911 said:
1911s have grip safeties, which you said you don’t trust. I’ve never had a problem with a grip safety. 1911s have their issues. They are going to be expensive. They have lower capacity. They will have more failures to feed. They may well require additional maintenance. Most 1911s use a series 70 style action which does not have a firing pin block. If you drop a series 70 from enough height onto its muzzle, the inertia of the firing pin will overcome the force of the firing pin retaining spring and the gun will discharge. Most 1911s these days use a lightweight firing pin (typically titanium) and an extra power spring to reduce this chance. It doesn’t worry me, but it is something to be aware of.

The issue about the combined safety decocker isn’t an issue with the combined functionality. The issue is the placement of the control — on the slide. Controls on the slide can get accidentally activated while cycling the slide, and they are harder to reach to deactivate the safety when drawing from a holster. I‘ve got no such concerns about the HK USP which also has a combined safety decocker because on the USP it is frame mounted not slide mounted. I would feel perfectly fine running a Beretta 92 converted to decocker only, but you insist on a manual safety. I’ve got other issues with the USP — the DA trigger is horrid, the SA trigger is meh, and I hate the HK paddle magazine release. But that is my personal taste.

No, on a CZ75 you can’t keep the safety on while decocking, because to manually decock you have to hold the hammer and pull the trigger, then slowly lower the hammer. I would not recommend a gun that has to be decocked manually to a new shooter. There are CZ 75 variants with decockers, but I’m not sure if there is one with both a decocker and a safety. For a new shooter, I would recommend one with a decocker over one with no decocker and a manual safety.

As for striker fired guns, the three guns I carry most are all striker fired: 1) a Gen 5 Glock 19, 2) a Glock 43x, and 3) a Kahr PM9 for pocket carry. I’ve got no problems with striker fired guns. None of those guns have a manual safety, which is something you were insisting on.

The P320 interests me because I hear that the grip angle is better than on Glocks. I much prefer the 1911 grip angle versus Glock’s grip angle. I haven’t tried one due to the reports about P320 safety. I just don’t know whether or not there is something real going on there.
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Over the years I’ve become a Sig fanboy. It just naturally happened😂. I have two 320’s post the debacle, an M18 and a Carry built off the 320 FCU ( this is my edc). I take no stock in knuckle head cops who don’t train often and it magically goes off in thier holster. I prefer a full size grip to a compact grip, this is why I don’t like G19’s. Sig really nailed the grip for those who like or prefer a bigger grip, even on the compact 320’s. I also like 1911’s for everything they are and I have a Sig Emperor Scorpion.😂
 
Apologies to the OP for the probable derailment and subsequent dumpster fire, but one option to avoid the wife's manual safety mandate could be carry with an empty chamber? Better than no carry at all. Cue the knee-jerk outrage in 3, 2, 1...

I'm in the camp of just get the P226 Compact. If you don't plan on shooting as a hobby why not get what works best for you? There isn't a single polymer frame striker-fired pistol on the planet that operates as nicely as a traditional Sig. All striker-fired triggers suck, it's just a matter of which ones suck the least. That said, I do have a pile of Glocks for various purposes.
 
ReinforcedHorse said:
Howdy. I recently got my LTC and am looking to purchase my first handgun strictly for home defense. I went to a gun range to try out a few and the one that felt most comfortable in my hands was the Sig P229 Compact. I guess for Sig “compact” means just a little bit smaller than full-size, which was just right for me as I am not a large man.

I am hoping you fine folks can recommend me a gun with a similar profile to the P229. It may turn out that the P229 is indeed the right gun for me, but it is also one of the most expensive I’ve seen for its size, retailing at $1300. Given that I do not plan to become a hobby shooter I’d prefer to avoid paying for a top-of-the-line model if I can find something similar that is just as reliable but cheaper.

What I like about the P229, as mentioned is its size (overall length 7.4 in) and weight, but also the stock/grip fit my hands very comfortably. It was much more natural to hold compared to the S&W M&P I tried.

I actually don’t have much preference for trigger/action mechanism – DA/SA, SAO, and striker are all fine (just not DAO). I know some hammer enthusiasts say that all striker triggers are mushy, but comparing the trigger pull on the P229 vs the P320 I honestly didn’t notice much difference, certainly not enough to affect my accuracy at a typical home-defense-encounter range. For that reason I was also considering the P320 M-18, which has a similar profile as the P229 Compact at half the cost – but then I read about all these recent negligent discharge lawsuits against the P320 which has made me wary.

So, I turn to the wisdom of this forum in search of a gun with a similar profile to the Sig P229 Compact. My other requirements are:
  • Chambered in 9mm
  • Must have a manual safety (no manual safety simply will not fly with the wife)
  • No grip safety (don’t trust them)
  • If hammer-fired: should have a decocker, or the manual safety should double as a decocker. Although as mentioned I’d be perfectly fine with a striker-fired gun too.
  • Ideally should be easy to mount a laser sight to the rail below the barrel (not looking for laser grips or RDS)
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A few things:

Welcome aboard
Find a range where you can rent different guns to get a preference
Even though it’s home defense….train, train, train. You are not doing yourself any favors by sticking it a safe or a nightstand
Why a handgun for home defense?
You said it right with negligent discharge.. it’s the operators fault not the guns
Good luck
 
OP: I live in the Boxborough/Harvard/Littleton area and if you (and wife) want to come
to the Harvard range and try out my Sigs (P226, 229L-ELS, 365, 210C, 320X5, P232) (your ammo ;) ), pls PM and we can find a mutual date/time.

There is NO substitute for actually hot-firing the gun(s) to figure out what you like or what fits best.
 
Thanks all for the continued responses. I am not able to respond to each individually but I am reading all of them and appreciate the advice.

Walter62 that is a generous offer, I hope I can find the time to take you up on it!
 
I'm in the process of switching my EDC from my Sig P229 Legion to my Springfield EMP Champion Concealed Carry Contour. I really like the Sig, but I love the EMP. As soon as I'm 100% comfortable running cocked and locked (meaning that I have a 100% habit of sweeping off the safety as I draw) the EMP will become my primary EDC. If you like the fit of the P229 then you should really like the EMP; like any 1911 class it's nice and slim. And in MA you only give up 1 round (9 instead of 10 in the mag). The Carry Contour has been discontinued, but you can still get the EMP in. 3 in or 4 in. barrel lengths (just not with the Contour's beveled butt), both at the same $899 MSRP. Here's a link to another post I made on it: 9mm 1911 Suggestions
 
Lol there is nothing else like a P229, basically most guns arent the size of a small school bus.

If you want a P229 buy a P229. I would reccomend a legion, because they're less shitty than most of the others, out of the box.

But that assumes you are into school buses.

I agree with @Executive , get some training, then you probably won't want a school bus any more, or a stupid laser hanging off the rail that you'll never use in the long term. This isn't because the P229 is a bad gun, hardly, its a great gun, but for most people tis just woefully impractical to carry a school bus like that around.

ETA:: If your wife is mandating what kind of gun you can buy you have bigger problems to deal with than what kind of gun you should buy... WAAAAAY bigger
problems.
 
I guess if you're the size of Fetterman, small buses aren't that bad ;)

'Carry' size is in the eye of the beholder. I got a 210Carry but it's not really 'Carry' for most
people. Actually, except for a light rail (you did say 'Home Defense'), it closely tracks what your wife ;)
wants :D
 
drgrant said:
ETA:: If your wife is mandating what kind of gun you can buy you have bigger problems to deal with than what kind of gun you should buy... WAAAAAY bigger
problems.
Click to expand...

You said that far more eloquently than I could. OP, you're severely limiting your options with a manual safety. Unless she's going to be keeping it in her purse, then buy the gun you're going to use/carry.
 
Buck F said:
You said that far more eloquently than I could. OP, you're severely limiting your options with a manual safety. Unless she's going to be keeping it in her purse, then buy the gun you're going to use/carry.
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Agreed. If OP has no experience yet then one has to assume that his wife has even less. Why take advice (IE demand-manual safety) from someone on a firearm that has most likely, from information provided, never even picked one up.

As others have noted, go and shoot some diff pistols first, that is your best bet of finding what fits and shoots good for you. A manual safety, which I have no problems with because I love 1911’s, is not going to make a new shooter safer, it may just make a new shooter slower, while they fumble around nervously trying to remember why the trigger won’t press.
 
Billy2 said:
A gun like the 229 with a safety in 9mm would be a hk usp compact variant 1.
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Yes. But it is stupidly large for the capacity. The DA trigger is horrid. The SA trigger is at best meh. The magazine release is in the wrong place. HK prices their magazines as if they are made out of gold.

On the bright side, the slide release is in the right place and it has a good size and shape. The gun is reliable and accurate. The sights are decent. The safety is frame mounted and works in the right direction, though the safety lever is poorly shaped for ergonomics.

I had two HK USPc - one in .40 and one in .45. I sold both and have never missed them. A Glock 19 simply works better for me, even as much as I dislike the grip angle and the trigger.
 
M1911 said:
Yes. But it is stupidly large for the capacity. The DA trigger is horrid. The SA trigger is at best meh. The magazine release is in the wrong place. HK prices their magazines as if they are made out of gold.

On the bright side, the slide release is in the right place and it has a good size and shape. The gun is reliable and accurate. The sights are decent. The safety is frame mounted and works in the right direction, though the safety lever is poorly shaped for ergonomics.

I had two HK USPc - one in .40 and one in .45. I sold both and have never missed them. A Glock 19 simply works better for me, even as much as I dislike the grip angle and the trigger.
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I carry a glock 19 daily... just giving the op a nother suggestion lol...
 
drgrant said:
Lol there is nothing else like a P229, basically most guns arent the size of a small school bus.

If you want a P229 buy a P229. I would reccomend a legion, because they're less shitty than most of the others, out of the box.

But that assumes you are into school buses.
Click to expand...
To clarify this would be for home defense, not carry. So size is not a concern from a concealment standpoint, I just want to make sure I don't get a gun that is too heavy for me to wield effectively. Having said that, I am now wondering if a full-size polymer-frame pistol may be the way to go – still get the benefit of the longer barrel for iron sight placement, some increased weight for recoil management, but not so much weight that it would be a pain to practice with at the range for over an hour (which is why I was leaning toward compact platforms initially). So maybe something like the Sig P320 M-17. Unfortunately I don't know if I can trust any P320 at this point due to all the claims of accidental discharges levied against it, but something similar to that. And yes I know I need to go try out holding and shooting more firearms to get a better sense of what will work best for me. (I did try out a handful the one time I went to the range, although the ones available for rent were older versions of what are typically available for purchase these days.)

I agree with @Executive , get some training, then you probably won't want a school bus any more, or a stupid laser hanging off the rail that you'll never use in the long term. This isn't because the P229 is a bad gun, hardly, its a great gun, but for most people tis just woefully impractical to carry a school bus like that around.
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At the risk of opening another can of worms, why is a laser "stupid"? Wouldn't it help with accuracy, particularly in low-light situations?

ETA:: If your wife is mandating what kind of gun you can buy you have bigger problems to deal with than what kind of gun you should buy... WAAAAAY bigger
problems.
Click to expand...
I did not ask for relationship advice, but since several people have now chimed in to agree with this comment, I will just say this: However exceedingly unlikely, keeping a gun in the home – particularly with a child – does introduce some risk of accidental injury, so yes my wife does deserve a say in what type of gun is kept in OUR home. And regardless of the actual risk of that happening, my primary reason for wanting to keep a firearm is the peace of mind that comes with knowing I can protect my family if needed – but if keeping a particular type of firearm would destroy my wife's peace of mind, that is not a cost I am willing to make her bear.
 
ReinforcedHorse said:
To clarify this would be for home defense, not carry. So size is not a concern from a concealment standpoint, I just want to make sure I don't get a gun that is too heavy for me to wield effectively. Having said that, I am now wondering if a full-size polymer-frame pistol may be the way to go – still get the benefit of the longer barrel for iron sight placement, some increased weight for recoil management, but not so much weight that it would be a pain to practice with at the range for over an hour (which is why I was leaning toward compact platforms initially). So maybe something like the Sig P320 M-17. Unfortunately I don't know if I can trust any P320 at this point due to all the claims of accidental discharges levied against it, but something similar to that. And yes I know I need to go try out holding and shooting more firearms to get a better sense of what will work best for me. (I did try out a handful the one time I went to the range, although the ones available for rent were older versions of what are typically available for purchase these days.)
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You are really overthinking this.

Unless you are very weak, you will have no problem practicing with a heavy steel frame gun. I'm 62 and not very strong. I've competed with a Glock 34 which is 23 oz empty. But I've also competed with a CZ Shadow 2 which is 46 oz empty.

For home defense, a larger gun is better. The main issue will not be the added weight over a compact gun. The main difference will be the sight radius. That will make it easier to shoot the gun more accurately.

Get a full size gun, either polymer or steel.
 
In an HD situation, a flashlight is more useful than a laser. As noted, a 226/229 should not be too heavy
for an average guy. Yes, the big CZ's or Walther SF series are heavy guns.

I'd still lean toward a 229, CZ P series or Beretta PX4 series as they check all your boxes.

Is your wife going to learn/use it or was the safety demand more of a mama-bear thing?
 
M1911 said:
You are really overthinking this.

Unless you are very weak, you will have no problem practicing with a heavy steel frame gun. I'm 62 and not very strong. I've competed with a Glock 34 which is 23 oz empty. But I've also competed with a CZ Shadow 2 which is 46 oz empty.

For home defense, a larger gun is better. The main issue will not be the added weight over a compact gun. The main difference will be the sight radius. That will make it easier to shoot the gun more accurately.

Get a full size gun, either polymer or steel.
Click to expand...
Hm, I'm starting to come around to this perspective. While not particularly strong, I don't consider myself exceptionally weak either (used to bench press sets of 185 lb x 5 in my 20s 🤣).
 
walter62 said:
In an HD situation, a flashlight is more useful than a laser. As noted, a 226/229 should not be too heavy
for an average guy. Yes, the big CZ's or Walther SF series are heavy guns.

I'd still lean toward a 229, CZ P series or Beretta PX4 series as they check all your boxes.

Is your wife going to learn/use it or was the safety demand more of a mama-bear thing?
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She is just concerned about our son accidentally getting a hold of it and firing it. I know it's not going to happen, but I haven't yet been able to completely shake her concern. I hope that eventually she will be willing to learn how to use it, but I'm not counting on turning that corner wiith her any time soon.
 
20221031_113503[1].jpg
Just a vote to check out the P30. It ticks off all the boxes you want. Decocker, plus manual safety, 9mm, etc. This is it compared against my P226, for size comparison. Not exactly the same as a P229, but close. A P229 is right around 7.1 inches, as is the P30. The P30 is a little more narrow, and weighs a little less. Height is about the same. Changeable grip modules are nice, to find what fits you/your wife.

Looking at mags through Mag Warehouse, it's $49 for a 15rounder for the HK, $47 for the Sig. Negligible difference. (If you buy off-brands, use a different site etc, the price difference could be a lot more, but just comparing brand vs brand mags, they're not that different).

The HK can be found in the $600 range online. Picked mine up, new, for around $500 when it was on sale. That gives you a lot left over for ammo for practice, laser/light, whatever.

But, as others have wisely pointed out, get some range time with whatever you're considering, to see how you actually like shooting them. I bought the P30 unseen. Got lucky and love it, but doesn't always work out that way.

ETA: I was going to add that having a manual safety on a firearm means absolutely zero to a child. It's just a small lever, which they are certainly able to figure out. But looks like Walter and Cathouse already touched on that below.
 
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If you're just looking for a home defense gun, consider the FNX 45 Tactical. Hammer fired, DA/SA with a de-cocker/safety, 10+1 rounds (in MA) of .45 ACP.
Of course, the thing is huge, but as a child deterrent, that's not necessarily bad.

As @walter62 said, with kids in the house, you'll need a good quick access safe. But your first level of protection is to educate your kids about guns. They need to know they are not toys and, for the little ones, if they see a gun, don't touch it and get an adult.
 
ReinforcedHorse said:
I did not ask for relationship advice, but since several people have now chimed in to agree with this comment, I will just say this: However exceedingly unlikely, keeping a gun in the home – particularly with a child – does introduce some risk of accidental injury, so yes my wife does deserve a say in what type of gun is kept in OUR home. And regardless of the actual risk of that happening, my primary reason for wanting to keep a firearm is the peace of mind that comes with knowing I can protect my family if needed – but if keeping a particular type of firearm would destroy my wife's peace of mind, that is not a cost I am willing to make her bear.
Click to expand...
You didn't ask for relationship advice but you did include the reason for requiring a manual safety so responses are to be expected; they seem to be respectful anyway. I think the prevailing opinion is that you're doing something for the wrong reason, that a manual safety won't do a thing to make your child safer. Also, there's no such thing as accidental injury in this context; it would be negligent injury if your child got hold of the gun and caused injury. You don't come across as the negligent type and there are myriad ways to store your gun safely from a child without a manual safety on the gun.

Manual safeties on certain types of guns have their place to be sure, but generally speaking modern striker fire guns don't benefit much from them and most don't come with them for a reason. You are severely limiting your options, particularly at the price point you're looking for and you're not achieving much if anything safety wise (there are safety reasons why you don't want a manual safety too, as have been previously mentioned).

Others have mentioned you might want to get some more training/exposure to a variety of different guns. Perhaps also try and see if you can get your wife to get some knowledge/experience? She's going to be in the house with the gun and has an opinion about gun safety which goes against conventional wisdom, acquiescing to something simply for her peace of mind isn't the way I would start my gun ownership experience (of course you do you).

Re Compact vs. Full size: If it's a home pro gun that you won't be carrying, I'd suggest full size. The benefit to Compact is for carry, not for range fun or home pro. Also, get a laser/light combo instead of just a laser, for homepro.
 

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