Reloading Rifle - improvements

[mac1911]

Thank you. I guess that is the info I was looking for. Basically what I'm doing is probably fine. Just go shoot.

Another great shooter who holds some records also told me , until your loosing for lack of X count its not the ammo, lol

Just be consistent even with the basic steps.
The last thing you need is “ thinking”
You dont want to be thinking if you did this or that when on the line.

 

[milboltnut]

Right , im just referring to the “cam” over not all presses are capable and will be damaged or break if the press and die are not set up correctly

do you think I'm not set up correctly? Never damaged or broke my press and never will. It toggles over with very slight pressure, it's not hard to do, and besides RC's are tough presses. If you have a hard time pulling up on the handle after you cam over, WITHOUT the right amount of lube it will be a problem, if the right amount of lube it works great and it's not hard to use the right amount of Hornady unique, that's what I use. A stripped bolt handle falling on my sized cases with the magazine floor plate and follower dropped, tells me if I'm ok at the firing line. So I don't have to think about this or that on the firing line.

 

[mac1911]

do you think I'm not set up correctly?

Follow press and die owners manual and you will be fine
Properly set press and dies will size brass to with in spec .

When you get into sizing brass that will only be used in one chamber you can get more specific

Ex my oldest M1 garand has a chamber that will pass the field gauge test and is safe to shoot. Trying to size this brass back to min spec can be troublesome .
So I adjust the die set I have just for that rifle to just size the brass back enough it will chamber with out issue. I keep 100 cases segregated just for this rifle to reload for it. I dont shoot it often . Its a well used 1942 M1 holding the black of a SR 1 is the best it will do no matter how good the ammo is.
I can size this brass for this particular M1 to function fine in this rifle.
It will not chamber in my 1903a3

The 308 and 30-06 i resize from my new production barrels on my M1 M1a 308 after resizing they are well with in factory specs and will chamber in any 308 chamber. Same for new barrel 30-06 M1, 1903a3.

Some presses are designed with a cam over action some are not.
That little extra turn on the die is usually to take up the slop in the press.

Ideally you want some sort of gauge to check how much your pushing back the shoulder. Either with tools or careful use of specific rifle chamber/bolt technique

 

[mac1911]

do you think I'm not set up correctly? Never damaged or broke my press and never will. It toggles over with very slight pressure, it's not hard to do, and besides RC's are tough presses. If you have a hard time pulling up on the handle after you cam over, WITHOUT the right amount of lube it will be a problem, if the right amount of lube it works great and it's not hard to use the right amount of Hornady unique, that's what I use. A stripped bolt handle falling on my sized cases tells me if I'm ok at the firing line. So I don't think about this or that on the firing line.

Maybe I should say “cam” over IMHO is poor wording.
Im expecting a design feature in the press it self that actually had some sort “cam” design
Like the older 007 press has a cam action built in to the design .

 

[peterk123]

Good stuff. While you guys are still engaged, I have another question. Both my wifes savage and my tikka seem to shoot better with a clean barrel. But the last time I cleaned our accuracy went down. As a matter of fact, the last two times out for me, shot one was way off. Prior to that, after cleaning, shot one was always right on. It looked like the last time out, my shots started to tighten after my eighth shot. I did not clean it after that session. Now I just need the wind to stop howling so I can determine if the gun needs some fouling.

So what gives? Cleaned too frequently and the last cleaning got too much crap out of the barrel? My gun has been very accurate all summer.

 

[gerrycaruso]

I don't try to find the best load for each gun. Just one that's pretty good. I've come to believe that if you spend more time at the loading bench than at the shooting bench, even if you find the best load, you won't be good enough to know it.

 

[slipknot]

Good stuff. While you guys are still engaged, I have another question. Both my wifes savage and my tikka seem to shoot better with a clean barrel. But the last time I cleaned our accuracy went down. As a matter of fact, the last two times out for me, shot one was way off. Prior to that, after cleaning, shot one was always right on. It looked like the last time out, my shots started to tighten after my eighth shot. I did not clean it after that session. Now I just need the wind to stop howling so I can determine if the gun needs some fouling.

So what gives? Cleaned too frequently and the last cleaning got too much crap out of the barrel? My gun has been very accurate all summer.

Check for carbon ring?

What cleaning solution are you using

 

[peterk123]

Check for carbon ring?

What cleaning solution are you using

Hoppes. Still windy, but we are heading out now to see we do with slightly fouled barrels. I've been seeing how far I could go before I noticed a difference. After about 75 shots things started to spread a bit. So then I tried to see what happens if I keep it really clean. There is a happy medium somewhere.

 

[M1911a1g17]

Are you loading for a semi or a bolt gun? You really only want to bump that shoulder about .002”-.003”. Once a piece of brass is fired one rifle it stays with that rifle for the life of the brass. I don’t swap between rifles at all. Also use high quality brass for your precision loads. Like Lapua brass, alpha brass, Peterson brass.

 

[slipknot]

Try some Bore Tech C4 carbon remover but ya, it is weird. If you have a scope, check the bore.

 

[milboltnut]

Good stuff. While you guys are still engaged, I have another question. Both my wifes savage and my tikka seem to shoot better with a clean barrel. But the last time I cleaned our accuracy went down. As a matter of fact, the last two times out for me, shot one was way off. Prior to that, after cleaning, shot one was always right on. It looked like the last time out, my shots started to tighten after my eighth shot. I did not clean it after that session. Now I just need the wind to stop howling so I can determine if the gun needs some fouling.

So what gives? Cleaned too frequently and the last cleaning got too much crap out of the barrel? My gun has been very accurate all summer.

patch the carbon and leave the copper alone until the accuracy drops off. Bring a cleaning kit to the range with you until you see where it drops off.

 

[milboltnut]

Hoppes. Still windy, but we are heading out now to see we do with slightly fouled barrels. I've been seeing how far I could go before I noticed a difference. After about 75 shots things started to spread a bit. So then I tried to see what happens if I keep it really clean. There is a happy medium somewhere.

I use Hoppes for carbon, but pro shot for the copper in a hurry.

 

[mac1911]

Check for carbon ring?

What cleaning solution are you using

Many years ago I was told the “barrel” is generally not the problem but the carbon fouling in the neck/lead of the chamber.

 

[peterk123]

Many years ago I was told the “barrel” is generally not the problem but the carbon fouling in the neck/lead of the chamber.

Funny you mention this. I tried to wipe that area nice and clean yesterday. Just in case.

Haven't been able to shoot yet. Blowing forty. My targets wouldn't even stay upright. Maybe later.

 

[milboltnut]

Funny you mention this. I tried to wipe that area nice and clean yesterday. Just in case.

Haven't been able to shoot yet. Blowing forty. My targets wouldn't even stay upright. Maybe later.

Carbon rings tend to build pressure and pressure produces spikes, and spikes fliers. What a cheap tool to have is cut the neck in half as a slip ring over a seated bullet. Set the ring over the bullet long and chamber the dummy to see if the ring goes rearward form max chamber case length. This is my .30-06 gauge. The slip ring has to be just that, slide over bullet by hand. The bullet naturally has to be seated not to move to to come in contact with the rifling.

 

[mac1911]

Good stuff. While you guys are still engaged, I have another question. Both my wifes savage and my tikka seem to shoot better with a clean barrel. But the last time I cleaned our accuracy went down. As a matter of fact, the last two times out for me, shot one was way off. Prior to that, after cleaning, shot one was always right on. It looked like the last time out, my shots started to tighten after my eighth shot. I did not clean it after that session. Now I just need the wind to stop howling so I can determine if the gun needs some fouling.

So what gives? Cleaned too frequently and the last cleaning got too much crap out of the barrel? My gun has been very accurate all summer.

Shot 1 also know as a cold bore shot
Ask tour self this
After you shoot any rifle do you adjust your scope or sights after that cold bore shot?

during any load testing as long as your shots are on target even a few inches off the point of aim leave your sight/scope adjustments alone. Just watch for groups
You will start to see impact shifts due to heat or even light conditions. Plus it removes one more thing to do/worry about.

Tou want a cold bore zero you need to zero on a cold bore. Then check it in conditions tou plan on shooting it.


Cold bore zero is good for hunting
When target shooting you tend to take 1 or 2 “fouling shots”

Its all fun , just keep at it

 

[milboltnut]

Follow press and die owners manual and you will be fine
Properly set press and dies will size brass to with in spec .

When you get into sizing brass that will only be used in one chamber you can get more specific

Ex my oldest M1 garand has a chamber that will pass the field gauge test and is safe to shoot. Trying to size this brass back to min spec can be troublesome .
So I adjust the die set I have just for that rifle to just size the brass back enough it will chamber with out issue. I keep 100 cases segregated just for this rifle to reload for it. I dont shoot it often . Its a well used 1942 M1 holding the black of a SR 1 is the best it will do no matter how good the ammo is.
I can size this brass for this particular M1 to function fine in this rifle.
It will not chamber in my 1903a3

The 308 and 30-06 i resize from my new production barrels on my M1 M1a 308 after resizing they are well with in factory specs and will chamber in any 308 chamber. Same for new barrel 30-06 M1, 1903a3.

Some presses are designed with a cam over action some are not.
That little extra turn on the die is usually to take up the slop in the press.

Ideally you want some sort of gauge to check how much your pushing back the shoulder. Either with tools or careful use of specific rifle chamber/bolt technique

Follow press and die owners manual and you will be fine

No need, I set it up my way.... I use Redding comp shell holder with thier body die to bump shoulders and they specify to make firm contact with the shell holder, but I like to ever slightly go a little further to make sure the entire case is in the die and the shoulder is making full contact in the die. i don't like to leave any gap at all between the shell holder and die.

Properly set press and dies will size brass to with in spec .

I set up the die and shell holder to how much headspace I want... adding this to the OP who wanted to know about case life, but for me it's accuracy.

When you get into sizing brass that will only be used in one chamber you can get more specific

Wouldn't do it any different. I don't mix set up brass to another rifle set up for the initial rifle.

Ex my oldest M1 garand has a chamber that will pass the field gauge test and is safe to shoot. Trying to size this brass back to min spec can be troublesome .

Again, I strip the bolt on my M-1 and feel the bolt and watch how easy the lug makes contact with the receiver

Some presses are designed with a cam over action some are not.

something that you
have to know and really isn't a big deal.

That little extra turn on the die is usually to take up the slop in the press

for me it's complete sizing, slop on my RC is not existent even at 40 plus years old, Shell holders are designed to be loose to center cases in dies. Squaring dies is an opinion. Lee die nut have a rubber oring that allows dies to "float", Concentricty test on my improved Hornady tool I improved with custom spindles takes great reading, with Lee rubber oring nut and Hornady lock rings.

Ideally you want some sort of gauge to check how much your pushing back the shoulder.

Hornady Headspace tool on the datum is consistent. Although I saw a guy finish ream a insert for his comparator.

 

[mac1911]

No need, I set it up my way.... I use Redding comp shell holder with thier body die to bump shoulders and they specify to make firm contact with the shell holder, but I like to ever slightly go a little further to make sure the entire case is in the die and the shoulder is making full contact in the die. i don't like to leave any gap at all between the shell holder and die.

I set up the die and shell holder to how much headspace I want... adding this to the OP who wanted to know about case life, but for me it's accuracy.


Wouldn't do it any different. I don't mix set up brass to another rifle set up for the initial rifle.

Again, I strip the bolt on my M-1 and feel the bolt and watch how easy the lug makes contact with the receiver

something that you
have to know and really isn't a big deal.

for me it's complete sizing, slop on my RC is not existent even at 40 plus years old, Shell holders are designed to be loose to center cases in dies. Squaring dies is an opinion. Lee die nut have a rubber oring that allows dies to "float", Concentricty test on my improved Hornady tool I improved with custom spindles takes great reading, with Lee rubber oring nut and Hornady lock rings.

Hornady Headspace tool on the datum is consistent. Although I saw a guy finish ream a insert for his comparator.

So in a nut shell your followung instructions then Fine tuning to get your results.

We all find a way to get where we beed to be.

 

[Mountain]

Thank you. I guess that is the info I was looking for. Basically what I'm doing is probably fine. Just go shoot.

+1
Your process is fine. Most of the added steps mentioned by others can be added if you want more accuracy or your current accuracy starts to creep into less than satisfactory. Keep your reload ammo in lots with the same batch of brass.

I no longer clean primer pockets unless for some reason they are quite gunked up- (old milsurp brass, etc.) For the stuff I want near 1/2 MOA, I anneal and ensure that case length is consistent. I also start with good brass- Starline, Peterson, Lapua, Norma, etc. Again, probably not necessary for your purposes but if you do get into annealing, I suggest the Ugly Annealer.
Ugly Annealer

 

[milboltnut]

So in a nut shell your following instructions then fine tuning to get your results.

We all find a way to get where we need to be.

In the case of using the Redding comp shell holders yes because you start with +010 down until you get where you want to be. But in Petes case he is sizing too much with a standard shell holder.

 

[milboltnut]

+1
Your process is fine. Most of the added steps mentioned by others can be added if you want more accuracy or your current accuracy starts to creep into less than satisfactory. Keep your reload ammo in lots with the same batch of brass.

I no longer clean primer pockets unless for some reason they are quite gunked up- (old milsurp brass, etc.) For the stuff I want near 1/2 MOA, I anneal and ensure that case length is consistent. I also start with good brass- Starline, Peterson, Lapua, Norma, etc. Again, probably not necessary for your purposes but if you do get into annealing, I suggest the Ugly Annealer.
Ugly Annealer

for me when sizing without annealing, sizing was inconsistent and saw it once I measured the shoulders for headspace. Annealed, and tuned case shoulder bump, there's no more, for me, "duh, what happened to my group" and since the cartridge is being pushed with the firing pin during firing, OAL is consistent along with consistent bullet seating.

 

[peterk123]

for me when sizing without annealing, sizing was inconsistent and saw it once I measured the shoulders for headspace. Annealed, and tuned case shoulder bump, there's no more, for me, "duh, what happened to my group" and since the cartridge is being pushed with the firing pin during firing, OAL is consistent along with consistent bullet seating.

Could you explain how the annealing helps with sizing consistency?

 

[milboltnut]

Could you explain how the annealing helps with sizing consistency?

read over post 51/52, but I guess you're not comprehending this that well.

When the case is sized the same as the others, it driven forward in the chamber until it makes contact with the chamber shoulder. Once this happens the firing pin crushes the primer to detonate the charge. So if your cases are not sized consistent, the shoulders not set back the same, the seated bullet is at varying distances from the rifling, which effects accuracy, and the bullet isn't in the same position unless the case is in the same position. Alex Wheeler of Wheeler precision like to size shoulders 4- to 5 thousands for a stripped bolt handle drop to allow the cartridge to center the bullet in the rifling with the shoulder seating in chamber. rather than a "binding" or a fireformed case that would definitely bind the bullet off center.

 

[mac1911]

I don't try to find the best load for each gun. Just one that's pretty good. I've come to believe that if you spend more time at the loading bench than at the shooting bench, even if you find the best load, you won't be good enough to know it.

I have reloads that are general purpose plinking 223/5.56 for example
They are all resized to “spec” so they should fit into and “in spec” chamber
24 grains of varget and bullets seated to COAL. Heck they even have random primer manufactures. All loaded on a old lee pro 1000. I use these for general plinking , off hand practice and “hits” on torso size type shooting

 

[milboltnut]

I have reloads that are general purpose plinking 223/5.56 for example
They are all resized to “spec” so they should fit into and “in spec” chamber
24 grains of varget and bullets seated to COAL. Heck they even have random primer manufactures. All loaded on a old lee pro 1000. I use these for general plinking , off hand practice and “hits” on torso size type shooting

AR platform ?

 

[Mountain]

for me when sizing without annealing, sizing was inconsistent and saw it once I measured the shoulders for headspace. Annealed, and tuned case shoulder bump, there's no more, for me, "duh, what happened to my group" and since the cartridge is being pushed with the firing pin during firing, OAL is consistent along with consistent bullet seating.

For sure without annealing you can feel the brass getting harder as you work the press on brass that has been resized 2X or more. For anyone only doing 1X resizing and OK with 1 MOA-ish, no annealing is fine. Now that I have the machine, I pretty much stack it full and let 'er rip now that I know my set ups for it.

 

[milboltnut]

For sure without annealing you can feel the brass getting harder as you work the press on brass that has been resized 2X or more. For anyone only doing 1X resizing and OK with 1 MOA-ish, no annealing is fine. Now that I have the machine, I pretty much stack it full and let 'er rip now that I know my set ups for it.

short story... FIL loaded M88 fireformed just neck sizing. Depending on the load would or wouldn't effect extraction. I shot a deer with it, had to finish it off with another racked round, not sure where he sized to but I told him about hard extracting, he blew me off.

From multiple loadings my bump works well, and the extra .002 is added insurance, and grows back .001 or .002 with still relatively easy chambering.

 

[milboltnut]

Could you explain how the annealing helps with sizing consistency?

how's your extraction ?

 

[peterk123]

how's your extraction ?

No issue. Pops out nice and smooth. Lever pretty much feels the same as when loading round. No slop, comfortably snug, if that makes any sense.

Finally got out. Dead on. So I think I learned something today. Barrel does not like to be too dirty. But after a thorough cleaning it needs to be fouled.

 

[Mudflap621]

Could you explain how the annealing helps with sizing consistency?

If you have brass at different states of hardness it's most definitely going to affect sizing consistency in the neck and shoulder. By annealing you are bringing brass back to a softened state every firing making every cycle more consistent. Every time the brass moves in any direction it work hardens.