School me on .223 and 5.56

appraiser

appraiser

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I know .223 is the cousin of 5.56, and 5.56 can be of a higher pressure than .223 ....

So much so that many people will say not to run 5.56 in a rifle marked .223

X for civilian M for Military right?

now tell me about 193 vs 855

In your run of the mill entry level AR with a non chromed barrel , say a 1 in 8 twist rate what would be the best plinking ammo?

Does Steel Core ammo cause any more wear to the barrel than non steel core?

Steel case vs brass cased pro's and cons?

This is a subject I am completely in the dark about and I'd like to be able to give a proper answer if asked about it.
 
G4Y4HK said:
Not a troll post, genuinely intrigued - you've been a NES member and supposed gun enthusiast with likes in the ten thousands and don't know?
Click to expand...

Four months and you are going to slag a senior (to you) guy who asked a legitimate question? People can be enthusiasts without knowing a thing about certain guns.

You gotta know when to shit talk and when there's a legitimate quest for information.
 
As far as I know, steel case doesn't touch the barrel at all, wouldn't wear out much more than brass. Some folks don't like the idea of cheap commie steel running through their boutique uppers, BCM, Larue, etc, especially if it'll make it all grimy with the sticky primers. It's supposed to be marginally cheaper than brass cased. Run what you like in a 5.56 gun, they're not fragile if they're built correctly. Do not run 5.56 in a 2.23 rifle.
 
wilson911 said:
Four months and you are going to slag a senior (to you) guy who asked a legitimate question? People can be enthusiasts without knowing a thing about certain guns.

You gotta know when to shit talk and when there's a legitimate quest for information.
Click to expand...
I didn't know there was some yes massa etiquette going on here. Like I said, I was simply intrigued and tried to provide a resource.
 
G4Y4HK said:
Not a troll post, genuinely intrigued - you've been a NES member and supposed gun enthusiast with likes in the ten thousands and don't know?
Click to expand...

Many of us are NOT AR fans.

Such people have very little reason to care about .223 vs 5.56. I'm pretty ignorant about it myself, to tell the truth. I carried M16s and M4s for almost eight years and I had no idea there was a difference between M855 and M193 until just last year.

Not everyone is into the same things you're into.
 
wilson911 said:
Four months and you are going to slag a senior (to you) guy who asked a legitimate question? People can be enthusiasts without knowing a thing about certain guns.

You gotta know when to shit talk and when there's a legitimate quest for information.
Click to expand...
His sh*t talking was perfect.

I approve.

OP, you can ignore Wilson911.
 
Back to the OP
I"m not declaring expertise but the steel case is generally harder on the extractors, that may or may not matter to you, I suppose it depends on how much steel case you run.
M855 "green tip" is more expensive vs M193
M855 is 62grn vs M193 at 55grn

For plinking M193 55grn is going to be fine.
 
SCreign said:
Back to the OP
I"m not declaring expertise but the steel case is generally harder on the extractors, that may or may not matter to you, I suppose it depends on how much steel case you run.
M855 "green tip" is more expensive vs M193
M855 is 62grn vs M193 at 55grn

For plinking M193 55grn is going to be fine.
Click to expand...
Pretty good review of M855 vs M193 Here. Other than weight, the commonly understood key difference between the two is that M855 "green tip" projectiles contain steel penetrators, while M193 projectiles are conventional FMJ. Many ranges will not allow M855 use as the steel penetrators damage steel targets.
 
It’s not just you.. I always forget and and have to ask if you can shoot .223 out of 5.56 and 308 out of a 7.62x51..

i‘d say it’s diemntia.. but more likely just age and forgetfulnes.
 
Put your reading light on, these are long but good reads regarding steel vs. brass cased ammo in general.

www.pewpewtactical.com

The Truth About Brass vs. Steel Ammo

Should you shoot steel-cased ammo? Or simply stick with the more expensive brass-cased ammo? We go through the facts and set things straight with some simple rules to follow.
www.pewpewtactical.com www.pewpewtactical.com

That article references the Lucky Gunner Labs test which spanned 40,000 rounds.

www.luckygunner.com

Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo - An Epic Torture Test

This comprehensive 40,000 round brass vs. steel cased ammo torture test examines at key indicators of ammo performance and cost in AR-15 rifles.
www.luckygunner.com

As far as your first point (.223/5.56) you are correct. 5.56 can run at higher pressures (depending on how you test them) but rule of thumb is .223 can go in 5.56 guns, not the other way around. Headspace is more the issue. Then you have goldilocks and her .223 Wylde, she takes it all and does it well 😉

1:8 is quick enough to shoot the heavier pills accurately, so if you like a 62gr or a 69 or even in to the 70’s, you’ll be fine. 1:7 may be better for the 77 grainers but they group perfectly fine out of a 1:8. 1:9 is better for lighter projectiles and may not have a fast enough twist for those same 77gr. loads. No need for M855 unless you like ‘em. M193 or any 55gr. load will be fine. I shoot steel, but try to not shoot it exclusively. Direct impingement is a dirty system to begin with, and steel ammo tends to run dirtier in my limited experience.

That’s the cliff notes.
 
I've always leaned to brass cased ammo after an unfortunate encounter with Blazer aluminum cased ammo in my old Model 13 revolver back in the mid 1980's.....

I was shooting outside at Cape Ann Sportsman's club and remember having to bang my ejector rod on the wooden tables to get the cases out of the cylinder.... after that I stuck to brass cases only....
 
OP, go here and take some time with it.

Ammo Oracle

Firearm Discussion and Resources from AR-15, AK-47, Handguns and more! Buy, Sell, and Trade your Firearms and Gear.
www.ar15.com www.ar15.com
 
The M193 is accurate enough for general use and plinking. Before the Rona hit I got a bunch of cases of Lake City M193 for less than $300 a case. Wish I had bought a ton more.

The M855 or 62gr projectiles are more accurate than the M193 or 55 gr. in my AR. At 100 yards not so much but at 200 yards definitely.

It really depends on the length of your barrel and the twist.

I built my AR specifically for in close so it has a 14.5" inch 1:8. It's legal with a muzzle brake making the total length a little over 16". If I was doing it again I would go with 16" barrel just because you have a much larger selection than 14.5" and I don't think that extra 1.5" has any effects on in close maneuverability.
 
As broccoli said, for plinking just get cheap stuff. Just realize your point of impact on cheap and light plinking ammo may be a good bit off from your zero with whatever else you zeroed with.

M855 is pretty crappy. A little better ballistic coefficient than M193 and it would break apart cinder block cover quicker than M193, but that’s about it. It is highly dependent on fleet yaw (angle of the bullet when entering tissue) in order for it to fragment. Otherwise it just ice picks through without causing anymore damage than a 22lr. Further, because of the way the bullet is made, the steel penetrator is not always perfectly aligned and leads to fliers. Military M855 can be sub 1.5 MOA, but it only needs to be 4 MOA according to specs. M855 is not worth the extra price. People incorrectly think that the steel penetrator is amor piercing.

M193 is less dependent on yaw from a terminal ballistics standpoint, but it does lose velocity quicker than M855. It’s great for plinking though.

M855A1 is a huge step up from either M193 or M855, but any you buy would have fallen off a truck.

With a 1:8, you can shoot anything from 40gr varmint loads all the way up to 77gr bullets. I think you’ll find that 69gr match loads shoot the most accurately for you. You’re not even limited to 77gr though. Depending on your barrel length, you can even shoot 80gr and 85gr loads if you hand load them instead of using a magazine. 1:8 is my favorite twist for precision.

So, more about twists: people will generally see 55gr bullets being more consistently accurate in 1:9 twist barrels than in 1:7 twist barrels. But the lighter bullets in faster twists aren’t automatically less accurate. What happens is that as the bullet is spun faster and faster, any balance inconsistencies in the bullet will show themselves more in the way of larger groups. Optimally to maximize precision for a given bullet, you want a stability factor of at least 1.5, but not much more. But if you have a good quality light match/varmint bullet, it should still be precise no matter the twist. There are a few websites that have online tools for calculating the stability factor of the bullet you’re shooting, if you know your muzzle velocity.

But in the end, all this talk is pretty moot for plinking. Buy some M193 or Wolf as cheap as you can, and have fun.
 
steel case ammo is dirty, and the main issue is it has a weird gas pressure curve, where it has a very high initial port pressure, but the pressure drops abnormally quickly, so for the end user steel case ammo seems to be low pressure ammo, so in cold weather and under gassed rifles you can run into ejection and cycling problems.

people saying steel case is harder on extractors and ejectors is a myth, it is not measurably harder on parts than brass cased ammo.

Steel case ammo often has bimetallic bullets, which are hard on barrels and will wear barrels out faster than copper jacketed ammo
 
appraiser said:
I know .223 is the cousin of 5.56, and 5.56 can be of a higher pressure than .223 ....

So much so that many people will say not to run 5.56 in a rifle marked .223

X for civilian M for Military right?

now tell me about 193 vs 855

In your run of the mill entry level AR with a non chromed barrel , say a 1 in 8 twist rate what would be the best plinking ammo?

Does Steel Core ammo cause any more wear to the barrel than non steel core?

Steel case vs brass cased pro's and cons?

This is a subject I am completely in the dark about and I'd like to be able to give a proper answer if asked about it.
Click to expand...
You want to look into the chamber differences over the years.

What 223 was originally intended for

What the military changed to make it work for them

The actual ammo/chamber pressure is not a huge difference and I think the several ways they test for chamber pressure create confusion and different data and results.



The real danger between “223 and 556”
Your typical old school 223 chamber had short throats because in 223s hay day a 1/12 twist and a 50 grain bullet was heavy for cal:
M193 55 grain bullet would find itself jammed into the riffling in the short throat/lead causing the “high pressure”
Problems

M193 vs M885 opinion only
M193 i like better and has been much more accurate than any pressed together 3 piece M885 bullet , sure looking to punch through some light armor M855

Steel case vs brass …. The steel cased ammo is soft as shit , maybe just maybe just might where on the extractor a bit quicker

If your worried about wear and can afford that much ammo to wear out your barrel buy a spare upper

X from what I have come to believe is what they label 193 or 855 spec ammo that did not meet one of the lot testing criteria
Someone who I know worked at Lake City she was there from 1961-1985 said this
Most lots are rejected for 3 common reasons
1. They fail the velocity test
2. Sealant
3. Bullet pull out test
Its not unsafe or “bad” ammo its just failed mil spec testing

Good luck
 
I keep buying the M855 because apparently my X95 likes it better. My AR I'm hoping to shoot 100+ yards so hopefully I'm not just throwing money away.
 

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