Scratch in savage 10 fcp-sr bore

[Straitshooter]

So i went an bought a new savage in 308, i gave the barrel a quick cleaning before shooting about 50 rounds down it. It shot ok giving me 1.5-1.75" groups at 50 and 100 yards consistantly with both Winchester and herters ammo. when i got home however i noticed scratches in the barrel close to the crown. They're very fine, definitely thinner than a hair, im worried that they might be thowing off the accuracy since theyre so close to the end of the barrel.

They dont look like tool marks to me. You can see one in the center of the land at the crown and 3 long ones to the right of it, along with a bunch of little chatter marks all around both sides of the land (all the silver dots). All those marks in the barrel are silver so none of them are fowlin buildup.

Will these marks wear down while the barrel breaks in, i do have ocd when it come to making sure my equipment is well maintained

 

[Straitshooter]

I cant post images for some reason so i guess i cant show u wat im talking about, thanks anyway

 

[Waher]

Use imgur.com to post an image link.

 

[Straitshooter]

Use imgur.com to post an image link.

Thanks

http://imgur.com/gallery/EqjzQ

 

[92G]

would worry about your barrel. keep shooting the rifle and collecting data. if it turns out to not perform then send it back to savage they will probably put a new barrel on it.

FYI my savage 10-FCP will launch pretty much any 168gr projectile well under 1MOA. it shoots the lighter stuff like 147gr somewhere around 3MOA. it's one of the most fun 308 bolt action rifles out there. the action was stiff as hell at first but smoothed out nicely. my only real grip is i wish the mags were a little cheaper. savage is a PITA when it comes to their mags.

 

[Straitshooter]

would worry about your barrel. keep shooting the rifle and collecting data. if it turns out to not perform then send it back to savage they will probably put a new barrel on it.

FYI my savage 10-FCP will launch pretty much any 168gr projectile well under 1MOA. it shoots the lighter stuff like 147gr somewhere around 3MOA. it's one of the most fun 308 bolt action rifles out there. the action was stiff as hell at first but smoothed out nicely. my only real grip is i wish the mags were a little cheaper. savage is a PITA when it comes to their mags.

I havent tried the 168's only 150's and 180's, its also really weird that i got the same size groups and 100 yards as i did at 50, all but a couple 3 shot groups were 1.5 almost exactly give or take a 1/16th of an inch or so, iv never seem that before, for wat its worth im using a p22 rimfire scope cause thats all i had, picking up a monarch 5 tomorrow and some match grade ammo gonna see what happens.

 

[Straitshooter]

would worry about your barrel. keep shooting the rifle and collecting data. if it turns out to not perform then send it back to savage they will probably put a new barrel on it.

FYI my savage 10-FCP will launch pretty much any 168gr projectile well under 1MOA. it shoots the lighter stuff like 147gr somewhere around 3MOA. it's one of the most fun 308 bolt action rifles out there. the action was stiff as hell at first but smoothed out nicely. my only real grip is i wish the mags were a little cheaper. savage is a PITA when it comes to their mags.

what do u use for a bench rest? Iv got a rolled up towl, worked really well for my 17hmr, maybe not so good for a 308 lol.

 

[mac1911]

I havent tried the 168's only 150's and 180's, its also really weird that i got the same size groups and 100 yards as i did at 50, all but a couple 3 shot groups were 1.5 almost exactly give or take a 1/16th of an inch or so, iv never seem that before, for wat its worth im using a p22 rimfire scope cause thats all i had, picking up a monarch 5 tomorrow and some match grade ammo gonna see what happens.

1.5" groups with herters or run of the mil hunting ammo
Not to bad. The scope might have some paralax issues?

What did you use for a cleaning rod?
Did you clean the bore before shooting it from the beginning?
Was herters the steel cased or their brass line.

Sometimes you really don't want to see Inside a barrel.

If you take a bore scope and look at my 1942 remington 513t you would not think it could shoot sub 2 moa
Same with a few of my other rifles. I have a 1903a3 that you can still see the tooling marks on top of the lands. Although with a good bullet it's a great shooter.
Give it some time....if it doesn't tighten up with some decent match ammo then maybe reconsider?
I would like to know what the acceptable accuracy standard is from Savage on this model. I never see anything on the web site with that info.
Like one of the ARs I bought had a .75 MOA accuracy guaranty with Federal gold medal match shot from the manufactures test bench...

 

[Straitshooter]

1.5" groups with herters or run of the mil hunting ammo
Not to bad. The scope might have some paralax issues?

What did you use for a cleaning rod?
Did you clean the bore before shooting it from the beginning?
Was herters the steel cased or their brass line.

Sometimes you really don't want to see Inside a barrel.

If you take a bore scope and look at my 1942 remington 513t you would not think it could shoot sub 2 moa
Same with a few of my other rifles. I have a 1903a3 that you can still see the tooling marks on top of the lands. Although with a good bullet it's a great shooter.
Give it some time....if it doesn't tighten up with some decent match ammo then maybe reconsider?
I would like to know what the acceptable accuracy standard is from Savage on this model. I never see anything on the web site with that info.
Like one of the ARs I bought had a .75 MOA accuracy guaranty with Federal gold medal match shot from the manufactures test bench...

Iv been using a carbon fiber rod with brass jags, i did clean the bore before, and i was using brass ammo.

I tried some match ammo in 165 Hornaday, still 1.5" groups with the new scope. I keep getting 2 shots close together with 1 farther off. In one 5 shot group i shot with 180 gr herters 3 were within an inch and 2 were grouped just below almost making 2 seperate groups together they measured 1.75" but apart they were under an inch.

 

[mac1911]

Iv been using a carbon fiber rod with brass jags, i did clean the bore before, and i was using brass ammo.

I tried some match ammo in 165 Hornaday, still 1.5" groups with the new scope. I keep getting 2 shots close together with 1 farther off. In one 5 shot group i shot with 180 gr herters 3 were within an inch and 2 were grouped just below almost making 2 seperate groups together they measured 1.75" but apart they were under an inch.

I think you are having same problems I have.
Consistent head placement behind the scope and breath control..
Over the past 8 years shooting old surplus rifles in matches have seen just how much action screw tightness affects accuracy. Learned for the most part I was over tightening action screws.
Keep at it.
Again I wish the manufacture had a base line on their rifles... although I'm thinking savage accuracy specs are not as tight as we would like to think.
Also I'm pretty sure they use button rifled barrels.

They drag a mandrell/cutter through the barrel bore with pressure/force so it would not take much for some marks to be left...?

 

[Straitshooter]

I think you are having same problems I have.
Consistent head placement behind the scope and breath control..
Over the past 8 years shooting old surplus rifles in matches have seen just how much action screw tightness affects accuracy. Learned for the most part I was over tightening action screws.
Keep at it.
Again I wish the manufacture had a base line on their rifles... although I'm thinking savage accuracy specs are not as tight as we would like to think.
Also I'm pretty sure they use button rifled barrels.

They drag a mandrell/cutter through the barrel bore with pressure/force so it would not take much for some marks to be left...?

Ive been loading one shot into the barrel by hand, but now that mention it the best groups ive gotten have been when ive shot from a magazine. One test showed that out of a hot barrel 1.5" was pretty normal. Gonna keep testing this weekend.

thanks for the help guys.

 

[mac1911]

Try some good old fashion 168 gn match...
Federal Gold Medal Match, hornady, Norma, black hills?
Also I have found over the years reloading for the surplus rifles that if a change bullets the barrel seems to need 5-6 shots to "season" or get used to the different bullet..?

Also that model has a thinner barrel than the "target" or HS models.. it may not do we well once it's a little warm?

Also playing with action screws can help. Although you need to have a good starting point.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/savage-action-screw-torque-tuning/

Until you start playing with the action screws you won't know if it helps. I was very shocked just how much my accuracy and consistency my old ruger showed when I finally to the time to try adjusting the screw.
I went from tight has to be good to 15inlb shrinking my groups more than 1/2..

Don't know if your adjusting your scope while testing?
I,learned to leave it alone once I'm hitting with in a inch or two of the aiming point.

 

[92G]

what do u use for a bench rest? Iv got a rolled up towl, worked really well for my 17hmr, maybe not so good for a 308 lol.

typically prone off a bipod. otherwise shoot off vanguard sticks or a sandbag.

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I havent tried the 168's only 150's and 180's, its also really weird that i got the same size groups and 100 yards as i did at 50, all but a couple 3 shot groups were 1.5 almost exactly give or take a 1/16th of an inch or so, iv never seem that before, for wat its worth im using a p22 rimfire scope cause thats all i had, picking up a monarch 5 tomorrow and some match grade ammo gonna see what happens.

i wouldn't even bother shooting groups with crappy glass. it's not worth the cost of the ammo or time. there's simply no way to judge a rifle without quality optic and rings. get yourself some good glass and the 10 FCP will reward you.

of note, pretty much every savage rifle I know has the rail loosen up after shooting. they don't loctite the screws. would degrease and loctite if you intend to shoot it.

my experience has been that literally any 168gr BTHP will shoot well from the 10-FCP. i played around w the 175's for longer range (i.e. beyond 800 yards) but inside 600 or so i would say they're usually a wash. the lighter bullets like 147gr simply will not get the most of the rifle/optic. the ballistics of that projectile sucks in comparison.

 

[bman940]

I think you are going to be very happy with the MONARCH 5 from Nikon. I have been using 2, a 3-15 and 4-20 this deer season. I was using my 3-15 BDC while hunting in OK this year and I was amazed at the light gathering capabilities after the sun had set. I could have easily harvest at 160 class buck but it was 20 min after legal shooting time so I just watched him graze and chase doe's until I was out of light. The ED glass is definitely worth every penny. Once I get a chance to Chrono my load I'll add a custom turret to the scope. I used the 4-20 on a Bergara .308 in Kansas last week with huge success. A buck and doe down with one shot at just over 300 yards.

http://i1216.photobucket.com/albums/dd363/bman940/IMG_7494.jpg

 

[Straitshooter]

typically prone off a bipod. otherwise shoot off vanguard sticks or a sandbag.

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i wouldn't even bother shooting groups with crappy glass. it's not worth the cost of the ammo or time. there's simply no way to judge a rifle without quality optic and rings. get yourself some good glass and the 10 FCP will reward you.

of note, pretty much every savage rifle I know has the rail loosen up after shooting. they don't loctite the screws. would degrease and loctite if you intend to shoot it.

my experience has been that literally any 168gr BTHP will shoot well from the 10-FCP. i played around w the 175's for longer range (i.e. beyond 800 yards) but inside 600 or so i would say they're usually a wash. the lighter bullets like 147gr simply will not get the most of the rifle/optic. the ballistics of that projectile sucks in comparison.

ok so i ended up getting the prostaff 5, with the adjustable paralax and all the bells and whistles. I tried some 165 hornady sst, and tried different holds and shouldering positions and what not. I finally found a holt that got the best results and the best group i got was, wait for it... 1.5 in lol... every...single...time. 6, 3 shot groups. Got some 168 amax and 175 federal gold gonna try it sunday.

 

[mac1911]

ok so i ended up getting the prostaff 5, with the adjustable paralax and all the bells and whistles. I tried some 165 hornady sst, and tried different holds and shouldering positions and what not. I finally found a holt that got the best results and the best group i got was, wait for it... 1.5 in lol... every...single...time. 6, 3 shot groups. Got some 168 amax and 175 federal gold gonna try it sunday.

Are you cleaning the barrel between each test runs?
Have you checked the torque of the action screws.
Is the barrel supposed to be free floated with the stock it came with?
If you getting 1.5" groups consistently that's a start.
How about some pictures of your groups.
Ammo used and such.
If your testing multiple ammo types at one time try shooting them round robin style and see how that works.

Do you have other rifles you shoot consistently better ?

 

[bman940]

Short of dropping $ on a bedding/action job and perhaps a new barrel I think maybe you are wringing the most out of that particular rifle. If you want to put $ into custom work I would start with a new platform. I have had a number of Savage rifles going back to the 80's and I still have a single shot .223 that is .3 MOA with good ammo. Savage rifles today are much better then even 20 years ago but as with most things you get what you pay for.

 

[92G]

ok so i ended up getting the prostaff 5, with the adjustable paralax and all the bells and whistles. I tried some 165 hornady sst, and tried different holds and shouldering positions and what not. I finally found a holt that got the best results and the best group i got was, wait for it... 1.5 in lol... every...single...time. 6, 3 shot groups. Got some 168 amax and 175 federal gold gonna try it sunday.

step 1 is to have someone else shoot it. one day i was convinced my rifle was shooting 2-3 MOA then i let my wife shoot some groups and her shots were consistently touching. it was annoying but helpful. i switched from cursing the rifle to cursing myself on that particular day.

would also consider getting some federal match 168gr or 175gr BTHP. another load that works great in my 10 FCP-SR is the PMC 168gr OTM. it's cheap and shoots well under 1 MOA.

see mac1911's suggestions above as well.

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Short of dropping $ on a bedding/action job and perhaps a new barrel I think maybe you are wringing the most out of that particular rifle. If you want to put $ into custom work I would start with a new platform. I have had a number of Savage rifles going back to the 80's and I still have a single shot .223 that is .3 MOA with good ammo. Savage rifles today are much better then even 20 years ago but as with most things you get what you pay for.

with the right shooter and ammo, the savage 10 FCP should be sub MOA. savage cannot build a magazine, stock or action to save their life, but they can definitely build a barrel. most likely cause of larger groups is human. if the human element is truly eliminated and the gun still shoots 1.5MOA, then the gun needs some work. IMO first step would be to tweak the stock tension.

 

[Aaron[MA]]

My 10P-SR is all over the place with lighter 14Xgr bullets, but balls on with 168 & 175 gr.
It came with 4rd mags. Found out last year the 10rd mags from the FCP work. Only $58/ea ;/. Had to have 'em though!

 

[mac1911]

My 10P-SR is all over the place with lighter 14Xgr bullets, but balls on with 168 & 175 gr.
It came with 4rd mags. Found out last year the 10rd mags from the FCP work. Only $58/ea ;/. Had to have 'em though!

10p does that have the heavy barrel?
I think that's one down side to savage to many variants of the same model.
I have been looking into getting back to bolt guns and savage is on that list...I'm LH so,my choices are limited.

 

[mac1911]

ok so i ended up getting the prostaff 5, with the adjustable paralax and all the bells and whistles. I tried some 165 hornady sst, and tried different holds and shouldering positions and what not. I finally found a holt that got the best results and the best group i got was, wait for it... 1.5 in lol... every...single...time. 6, 3 shot groups. Got some 168 amax and 175 federal gold gonna try it sunday.

What rings and what base... are you using a torque wrench ?

 

[Straitshooter]

step 1 is to have someone else shoot it. one day i was convinced my rifle was shooting 2-3 MOA then i let my wife shoot some groups and her shots were consistently touching. it was annoying but helpful. i switched from cursing the rifle to cursing myself on that particular day.

would also consider getting some federal match 168gr or 175gr BTHP. another load that works great in my 10 FCP-SR is the PMC 168gr OTM. it's cheap and shoots well under 1 MOA.

see mac1911's suggestions above as well.

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with the right shooter and ammo, the savage 10 FCP should be sub MOA. savage cannot build a magazine, stock or action to save their life, but they can definitely build a barrel. most likely cause of larger groups is human. if the human element is truly eliminated and the gun still shoots 1.5MOA, then the gun needs some work. IMO first step would be to tweak the stock tension.

It definitely could be human error. I dont shoot large caliber rifles often, i can clover a 12 gauge at 100 yards with a slug barrel though and diring dummy round drills i dont seem to have a flinch with this new rifle, so i figured id see what i could check on the gun, it was those scratches in the barrel that concerned me the most though with accuracy. I got some federal 175 gr and hornady 168, im gonna try to shoot them with letting the barrel cool between shots to see if the groups tighten up.

 

[mac1911]

It definitely could be human error. I dont shoot large caliber rifles often, i can clover a 12 gauge at 100 yards with a slug barrel though and diring dummy round drills i dont seem to have a flinch with this new rifle, so i figured id see what i could check on the gun, it was those scratches in the barrel that concerned me the most though with accuracy. I got some federal 175 gr and hornady 168, im gonna try to shoot them with letting the barrel cool between shots to see if the groups tighten up.

Clover leaf with 12g get some sabot's with 30 cal bullets!
This scratch has got in your head.
Are your groups clustered around your aim point or are you loosing a shot or 2 up down left right?

Did you run the savage recommended barrel break in.
It's 40 rounds and a lot of cleaning
https://www.savagearms.com/firearms/proceduresbarrelbreakin/
If that scratch bothered you do not look in there with a bore scope!

What are you using for targets... I like the 1" red dots on the 1" grids. I can really center up well with those.

Also are you focusing on the target or the reticle. Focus on the reticle. Fundamentally it is your front sight.

I say bring the shot gun and shoot a few groups if your still clover leafing you shotgun groups you know you are lesser of the problem.

Is the barrel on this model their standard tapered barrel?
In the pictures it does not look like the HEAVY barrel.

The accustock doesn't seem to get great reviews other than its better than their non accustock.

 

[Aaron[MA]]

10p does that have the heavy barrel?
I think that's one down side to savage to many variants of the same model.
I have been looking into getting back to bolt guns and savage is on that list...I'm LH so,my choices are limited.

Yes. Heavy 16" bbl.
I guess it was some kind of special run.
This isn't mine, but here's a pic:

...if this works from my phone; can't preview...



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KMM696]

Accustock Torque Sequence

http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?265-Proper-Torque-Sequence-For-The-AccuStock

Another potential issue is the scope mount.

http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?155-Front-Scope-Mount-Screws


Savageshooters.com's 110 based rifle subforum would be a good place to ask around, too.

I got into Savages for the same reason, support for lefties. I was having similar accuracy issues as you with an older 10FLP. Shot okay, but not as good as I expected GMM to shoot. I had already replaced and bedded the stock - mine turned out to be the scope mount or rings. Took the one piece mount off, skim bedded the mount to the receiver, and then worked up from there with a torque screwdriver. That got me from 1.75 MOA to 1.25. Not sure if I needed the bedding on the mount, or just needed to put the thing together correctly.

 

[dcmdon]

I had a Savage FCP McMillan that would consistently put my 175 gr SMK hand loads within 1 MOA at 500 yards.

The barrel had a 6 inch section about halfway down that had tool chatter marks that would make you cringe. Savages are kindof known for that. People will tell you to not look inside a savage barrel with borescope or you will be frightened. But somehow they shoot.

 

[mac1911]

I had a Savage FCP McMillan that would consistently put my 175 gr SMK hand loads within 1 MOA at 500 yards.

The barrel had a 6 inch section about halfway down that had tool chatter marks that would make you cringe. Savages are kindof known for that. People will tell you to not look inside a savage barrel with borescope or you will be frightened. But somehow they shoot.

The method they use , dragging a forcing tool through the barrel can not be good for a "fine" finish.
It's a quick cheap method of making barrels...that still can deliver very good results.

I have this thing stuck in my head from my dad.
If you working class rifle and scope can hold 2" groups your ahead of the game.
Savage and marlin among others where in my dad's eyes blue collar guns...Savage has come a ways though and my dad would be impressed with what you can buy for 500-1200$ and get as good as they are.

 

[mac1911]

I think as mentioned before to start over.
1. Remove everything
2. Clean everything.....copper solvent the bore.
3. Reinstall everything torque to specs.
4. Use some accurate ammo.
Then really focus on head position and focus on the reticle. Support the rifle just in front of magazine.

 

[dcmdon]

I think as mentioned before to start over.
1. Remove everything
2. Clean everything.....copper solvent the bore.
3. Reinstall everything torque to specs.
4. Use some accurate ammo.
Then really focus on head position and focus on the reticle. Support the rifle just in front of magazine.

Or hang out at the 200 yard range at your club. When you see someone shooting itty bitty groups, ask him if he could take a few shots with your rifle and see what you find.

In the mean time. Focus on

1) trigger squeeze
2) consistent head position behind the scope
3) breath control
4) NPOA.

If you don't know what NPOA is, then I'm definitely certain that you may be the problem.

Also, you are describing a 1.75 moa group. (1.75" at 100 yards)

10 years ago that would have been a pretty good group. But I think the Internets has distorted our perception.

First, what is group size? No, I'm not kidding? What is group size.

Some writers go out and shoot 10 - 3 shot groups and then select the best group and consider that to be what the gun is capable.

Others (myself included) shoot several 5 shot groups and then AVERAGE the size of the group.

Some do what I do, but throw out the best and worst as skew points.

The bottom line is that 1.75" for a is not bad. Especially considering the ammo you are using.

Which leads me to your ammo. Winchester What? Winchester Match, or white box from Walmart? Herters - pretty much all Herters is bottom of the barrel.

Go out and spend a few bucks on some Federal Gold Medal Match loaded up with 168 gr Sierra Match Kings and report back to us then. But before you launch the $2 apiece ammo down range, put 10 rounds or so of Herters through the barrel to foul it.

The bottom line is that if you are
1) relatiely inexperienced with precision shooting. If that's wrong, then I'm sorry I got that perception. I don't mean any disrespect. Do you own other guns that you are able to shoot sub moa?
2) using crappy ammo
3) using a scope of unknown quality.

Then 1.75 MOA is about right.

Don

 

[dcmdon]

Over the past 8 years shooting old surplus rifles in matches have seen just how much action screw tightness affects accuracy. Learned for the most part I was over tightening action screws.

Anyone who wants to shoot accurately needs an inch pound torque wrench. Once you have one, you will use it constantly. On a precision rifle its handy for scope rings, rail mounting on the rifle, action screws.

Having all of these screws properly torqued is very important. The scope and rail screws should also be loctited. On the action screws, once you find a torque that produces the best accuracy, the torque wrench allows you to consistently get back to that position after the gun is removed from the stock.

Try some good old fashion 168 gn match...
Federal Gold Medal Match, hornady, Norma, black hills?
Also I have found over the years reloading for the surplus rifles that if a change bullets the barrel seems to need 5-6 shots to "season" or get used to the different bullet..?

Also that model has a thinner barrel than the "target" or HS models.. it may not do we well once it's a little warm?

Also playing with action screws can help. Although you need to have a good starting point.

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/savage-action-screw-torque-tuning/

Until you start playing with the action screws you won't know if it helps. I was very shocked just how much my accuracy and consistency my old ruger showed when I finally to the time to try adjusting the screw.
I went from tight has to be good to 15inlb shrinking my groups more than 1/2..

Don't know if your adjusting your scope while testing?
I,learned to leave it alone once I'm hitting with in a inch or two of the aiming point.

Yup. Good accuracy and consistent torque on the action screws.

The FCP SR the OP has has a pretty thick barrel. (Savage lists it as a 9 lb rifle with their plastic stock) I shot my FCP at Sig (Advanced precision rifle. a great class) and we averaged about 100 shots per day. The barrel was pretty warm all day and it walked less than my pencil barreled Browning ABolt Micro will walk in 3 shots.