I’ve read a lot about what kind of SHTF gun you should have and I only seem to come across the debate between an AR or an AK47. I never hear about the versatility that a shotgun has such as the Mossberg 590 or similar. To be realistic if a SHTF scenario were to ever happen I highly doubt that any of us would be on the front lines so why not consider a shot gun. With the newer slugs on the market and better shot why not. Opinions.
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Shotguns
- Thread starter ignium
- Start date
+1 and a shotgun is also too short range for my liking. If the SHTF I don't want any zombies getting within buckshot range of my family.
I would vouch for the AK, not because it's a better gun in any sense, but rather because it's more rugged. Personally, shotguns fine for home defense, but for a SHTF the only thing going for it is the intimidation factor (due to lots of rumors regarding shotguns). Low Capacity, expensive ammo, low range, heavy kick, and low manuverability are some key reasons not to depend on the Shottie for SHTF.
A lot depends upon which "S", which "F", and your positive relative to the resulting fecal matter dispersal.
Your tool box should contain as many tools as you can reasonably afford to obtain and be able to use effectively. There is no one tool which can perform all tasks with the same efficiency. You should try to match the tool with the task.
The shotgun is certainly a formidable weapon when used by a skilled practitioner within the limitations of both. But it is more short-range than a rifle. You should have one or more in your arsenal but when possible, try to match it to the situation.
Your tool box should contain as many tools as you can reasonably afford to obtain and be able to use effectively. There is no one tool which can perform all tasks with the same efficiency. You should try to match the tool with the task.
The shotgun is certainly a formidable weapon when used by a skilled practitioner within the limitations of both. But it is more short-range than a rifle. You should have one or more in your arsenal but when possible, try to match it to the situation.
Mossberg actually makes a SHTF shotgun package. http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=28§ion=products
Its a little on the gimmick/cash in side, they came out after the Katrina situation. But sealed in a waterproof tube and with a few goodies in there its not a bad idea, plus they're fairly cheap with the Mariner usually under $400.
The shotgun argument has been dragged out here many times before. People often dismiss shotguns, especially compact pistol grip models, but to me its a lot easier to put down a charging attacker at close range with a buckshot blast fired from the hip. Especially if they're in your house.
Its a little on the gimmick/cash in side, they came out after the Katrina situation. But sealed in a waterproof tube and with a few goodies in there its not a bad idea, plus they're fairly cheap with the Mariner usually under $400.
The shotgun argument has been dragged out here many times before. People often dismiss shotguns, especially compact pistol grip models, but to me its a lot easier to put down a charging attacker at close range with a buckshot blast fired from the hip. Especially if they're in your house.
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One who is seriously considering preparing for SHTF scenarios needs to spend some time thinking about which scenarios that could be encountered, prioritizing them by likelihood and then outlining a plan to prepare for the situation. Living in New England, we have a much higher chance of running into weather related scenarios – blizzards, Nor’easters, etc. – and these scenarios would not require you to flee your house with your bug out bag hiking across vast tracks of land with your family.
So in other words it doesn’t matter that 100 rounds of 12ga shells weighs more than 100 rds of 5.56 or 7.62x39. If you hunt in MA in MA with a shotgun, then stocking up a few hundred rounds of different kinds of shot shells and a spare barrel makes sense because it’s a weapon that you already use, are familiar with and can be leveraged - if necessary - during a SHTF scenario. Since most of us don’t have all the disposable income we want, we are forced to use the weapon that we already have for recreational shooting, hunting and/or competition.
I’d also ignore the ‘short range’ comments….what kind of scenario do you see yourself planning for where you need to reach out farther than 100 yards to protect your homestead from raiders? Look at all the recent scenarios and arguably the worst was Katrina, where we never heard stories that people were perched on rooftops shooting more than shotgun range to protect their homes. Do your research (check out Ammo Oracle) and you will find that FBI stats reveal SWAT snipers have averaged 78 yard shots over the last 20 years. What makes you think you need more range? Hell – if you shoot someone from more than 30 feet, you’re going to be in court trying to justify it – and anything over shotgun range doesn’t have much of a prayer in court.
While Red Dawn, Jericho and other TV shows/movies come up with great plots that get everyone excited, it is extremely unlikely that something that something that catastrophic would ever happen. So it makes much more sense to round out the firearms gear you already have for your hobby (whether it be a shotgun, AR or AK), then buy food/supplies/generators/etc. and if you still have money left over then you can build out your armory so you can handle everything that any movie maker could come up with.
So in other words it doesn’t matter that 100 rounds of 12ga shells weighs more than 100 rds of 5.56 or 7.62x39. If you hunt in MA in MA with a shotgun, then stocking up a few hundred rounds of different kinds of shot shells and a spare barrel makes sense because it’s a weapon that you already use, are familiar with and can be leveraged - if necessary - during a SHTF scenario. Since most of us don’t have all the disposable income we want, we are forced to use the weapon that we already have for recreational shooting, hunting and/or competition.
I’d also ignore the ‘short range’ comments….what kind of scenario do you see yourself planning for where you need to reach out farther than 100 yards to protect your homestead from raiders? Look at all the recent scenarios and arguably the worst was Katrina, where we never heard stories that people were perched on rooftops shooting more than shotgun range to protect their homes. Do your research (check out Ammo Oracle) and you will find that FBI stats reveal SWAT snipers have averaged 78 yard shots over the last 20 years. What makes you think you need more range? Hell – if you shoot someone from more than 30 feet, you’re going to be in court trying to justify it – and anything over shotgun range doesn’t have much of a prayer in court.
While Red Dawn, Jericho and other TV shows/movies come up with great plots that get everyone excited, it is extremely unlikely that something that something that catastrophic would ever happen. So it makes much more sense to round out the firearms gear you already have for your hobby (whether it be a shotgun, AR or AK), then buy food/supplies/generators/etc. and if you still have money left over then you can build out your armory so you can handle everything that any movie maker could come up with.
You make many good points although I think you are missing the true meaning of the SHTF.
IMO losing power for a week during a bad snowstorm is not the SHTF, that is life. The SHTF means outlaws roaming the street, burning house and cars everywhere, citizens fighting citizens just to survive, little water or food, and no court to prosecute the bad or good guys about how far away they were when they shot.
I have both an AK and a 12 ga., in most cases I will grab my AK first, the only reason I would probably take the shotgun would be if the bad guys were already in the house (even them maybe not). If they are outside or I am outside moving to another location it will be a rifle that I carry.
P-14
NES Member
If I'm bugging out like for Katrina, the first thing I reach for is the AK and a 1000 rounds in the 50 cal. ammo can. If I'm staying, I reach for the shotgun first.
Every fall Dick's puts shotgun ammo on sale and it's very cheap. I have a 50 cal. ammo can of slugs and a can of shot. The shot is good for clearing hallways and repelling all boarders using the deer barrel that is normally on the shotgun.
Every fall Dick's puts shotgun ammo on sale and it's very cheap. I have a 50 cal. ammo can of slugs and a can of shot. The shot is good for clearing hallways and repelling all boarders using the deer barrel that is normally on the shotgun.
Agreed, we should have defined SHTF. SHTF - to me - is what I outlined above and my definition of TEOTWAWKI is the outlaws roaming the street, burning houses - essentially the Light's Out and Katrina story.
I still believe that most people would have a tough time funding an arsenal that is solely purposed for SHTF/TEOTWAWKI. The Katrinas, LA Riots and other scenarios are so rare that most - including myself - will buy weapons they use for other purposes and may happen to be pretty well suited for most SHTF/TEOTWAWKI scenarios.
If I only had to choose a single long arm for SHTF/TEOTWAWKI, then it would be an AK since they are virtually indestructible, ammo is plentiful and it would be pretty well suited for a variety of roles. That said, my safe has some ARs, a Rem 700 in 30.06, muzzleloaders, shotguns and pistols - but no AK. Even though I don't own an my recomended SHTF/TEOTWAWKI long arm, I still feel quite well prepared for any scenario with my current arsenal.
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N.E. CHARTERS
Banned
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"If I need one there will be plenty laying around"
A pump action 12 Gage is the most versitile all around tool you can have.
bird shot, Buckshot and Slugs. You can even shoot flares in it.
A pump action 12 Gage is the most versitile all around tool you can have.
bird shot, Buckshot and Slugs. You can even shoot flares in it.
lemonlime571
Army Veteran
I read this and bought an AK today........ Need more high cap mags though.....
The main problem with the Ak is the lack of fragmentation and the not so fast mag exchange due to the design, yes with enough practice you can do it well, but an AR is faster, more accurate and the bullet fragments with exceptional stopping power as long as the range, twist rate and muzzle velocity are all within design parameters. The 7.62x39 round makes a hole keeps on going, and going which is good if your poking through cinder walls, not so good if there are good guys on the other side of the bad guys( like defending your house). JMHO.
For where I live, the AK is the perfect gun. Seconded by a very powerful high capacity handgun. and third for me would be the 12 shotty.
Over penetration has always been a big concern when it comes to using a rifle for home protection. Much like there are different bullet types for AR use to avoid it, I'm sure there are some ammo types such as hollow point Wolf or other soft point ammo that will allow an AK or SKS to be used for home defense.
I have 6 long guns. They all could have their place, assuming I am "Bugging In" , or based from my truck ...
12g Rem 870 with wooden furniture and an improved cyclinder bore. - bedroom at night.
12g Mossberg 500 w a folding stock & pistol grip and a sling - over the shoulder , and good for foraging Inside of buildings for medicine , Hostess products , beer ...
AR15 with red dot & BUIS's & a 4 pack of mags on belt/Jack Bauer bag + one in rifle = 150 rounds that'll pierce an ear at 100 yards.
AK ( Wasr-10 ) in case I want to crawl through a swamp to get where I'm going and kill everyone I meet when I get there ( if they are , like , really bad people ).
Winchester 1896 44 mag Scout - will kill deer , Yeti , little whales.
Ruger 10/22 for the littler local critters to feed upon.
I pretty much aquired these guns over time for just these reasons , and because they are fun as hell to shoot. But I got the AK in recognition of Gov. Patrick getting elected.
If I had to take just one as a Do it All Gun : Bushmaster ( with cleaning kit , there's already a spare parts kit in the handle ).
12g Rem 870 with wooden furniture and an improved cyclinder bore. - bedroom at night.
12g Mossberg 500 w a folding stock & pistol grip and a sling - over the shoulder , and good for foraging Inside of buildings for medicine , Hostess products , beer ...
AR15 with red dot & BUIS's & a 4 pack of mags on belt/Jack Bauer bag + one in rifle = 150 rounds that'll pierce an ear at 100 yards.
AK ( Wasr-10 ) in case I want to crawl through a swamp to get where I'm going and kill everyone I meet when I get there ( if they are , like , really bad people ).
Winchester 1896 44 mag Scout - will kill deer , Yeti , little whales.
Ruger 10/22 for the littler local critters to feed upon.
I pretty much aquired these guns over time for just these reasons , and because they are fun as hell to shoot. But I got the AK in recognition of Gov. Patrick getting elected.
If I had to take just one as a Do it All Gun : Bushmaster ( with cleaning kit , there's already a spare parts kit in the handle ).
I very much agree with this statement as sometimes you cannot chose your "backstop".For in the house it's the 12 ga. for me.If it was a flee my house situation...I'll take my Sprigfield Socom w/scope.We're not allowed to have evil AK's in CT.
![[crying]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/006.gif "Crying [crying]")
I have several shotguns, but the one I have next to my bed is a Mossberg 500 pistol-grip pump. Weapon light and laser attached, the mag tube is loaded with TAP 00.
Its my home defense gun. Its just makes sense. I mean, my carry pistol is never out of arms reach, but a compact shotgun can really turn a bad situation around.
Its my home defense gun. Its just makes sense. I mean, my carry pistol is never out of arms reach, but a compact shotgun can really turn a bad situation around.
Twigg
NES Member
Its not so much the neighborhoods, it who's going to be coming out of an area scavenging for food & supplies in the event of a bonafide disaster.
Even when one lives out in God's country one can expect trouble.
I've got plans for another shotgun or two in the works since all I've got (for shotguns) are a couple'a Fuddguns, an O/U & a pump. I'm thinking along the lines of a Sagia or an 870 set up for HD.
Until then, its the AK and sidearms.
My solution is to buy several of everything. That way, you're never unprepared.
Palladin
NES Member
1. .45cal Glock 30 w/laser
2. 12ga Mossberg 500 w/ pistol grip, 18" & 28" barrels
3. 10/22 Ruger
4. .30cal M1 carbine w/30 rd mags
5. Fully automatic 10kw nat gas standby generator. Large enough to do entire house. As long the gas flows, I have power.
Not so concerned about Katrina type situations. I'm in the suburban woods. More concerned about lack of electricity, etc. Watch George Carlin's piece on what would happen in the US without electricity...THEN we'd all be trying out the weapons.
2. 12ga Mossberg 500 w/ pistol grip, 18" & 28" barrels
3. 10/22 Ruger
4. .30cal M1 carbine w/30 rd mags
5. Fully automatic 10kw nat gas standby generator. Large enough to do entire house. As long the gas flows, I have power.
Not so concerned about Katrina type situations. I'm in the suburban woods. More concerned about lack of electricity, etc. Watch George Carlin's piece on what would happen in the US without electricity...THEN we'd all be trying out the weapons.
When I think about what kind of weapons I would need I just think back to the stories of New Orleans where people were being shot at crossing bridges .... A real life situation that could occur and its likely you will not be able to stay in your residence 100 percent of the time.
Its the AR or the AK because you can bet your sweet bippy the low lifes are not always going to be taking shots at 30 feet. They certainly are not worried about going to court over it either. I like the AR becuase for one thing its easier to break in half (2 pins) and put in a back pack and I would have my 9mm anyway for short range immediate use.
The other thing about the AR is less recoil when you need to shoot without preperation. Stationary position with control AK all the way.
Just my .02 cents!
Its the AR or the AK because you can bet your sweet bippy the low lifes are not always going to be taking shots at 30 feet. They certainly are not worried about going to court over it either. I like the AR becuase for one thing its easier to break in half (2 pins) and put in a back pack and I would have my 9mm anyway for short range immediate use.
The other thing about the AR is less recoil when you need to shoot without preperation. Stationary position with control AK all the way.
Just my .02 cents!
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Prepare for:
Devastating Floods and Hurricanes
Earth Quake
Major Biological contamination
Extended Drought
Dirty Bombs Aftermath
Destruction by a terrorist of a nuclear power facility
Just about any of these will send the looters and scum to your door step while the military and police are occupied in the immediate area. Even if you happen to be in the midst of all of it your gonna need a plan because none of those put together by FEMA or Home Land Security are worth a SH_T. Hell you would be lucky if you could even use the roads to escape in MA.
Devastating Floods and Hurricanes
Earth Quake
Major Biological contamination
Extended Drought
Dirty Bombs Aftermath
Destruction by a terrorist of a nuclear power facility
Just about any of these will send the looters and scum to your door step while the military and police are occupied in the immediate area. Even if you happen to be in the midst of all of it your gonna need a plan because none of those put together by FEMA or Home Land Security are worth a SH_T. Hell you would be lucky if you could even use the roads to escape in MA.
"It can't happen here"
I'm sure Sean Taylor lived in a "bad" neighborhood.........NOT.
I live in a sleepy metro-west bedroom community yet there was a woman stabbed to death in broad daylight in the middle of a mall parking lot. They were looking for the suspect when I arrived home from work and helecopters were circling the area.
Ignorance is bliss. It can also be deadly.![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
I'm sure Sean Taylor lived in a "bad" neighborhood.........NOT.
I live in a sleepy metro-west bedroom community yet there was a woman stabbed to death in broad daylight in the middle of a mall parking lot. They were looking for the suspect when I arrived home from work and helecopters were circling the area.
Ignorance is bliss. It can also be deadly.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Seems to me when and if a disaster does occur the low life scum know where the best pickins are going to be and its not the bad neighborhoods where they might just run into one of their own. You can bet most of the inner city households will be packing.Maybe it was the scouts or the military but I just like to be prepared and from what I am seeing going on around the world its not over the top to think outside the box a little.
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