small pistols

Coyote33

Coyote33

Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
34,705
Likes
14,034
Feedback: 3 / 0 / 0
OK, everyone claims something.

Smallest.
Shortest.
Lightest.
Thinnest.

Many claim the same thing.

What do people here think? What's important in a small pistol? Length? Weight? Thickness?

There are a few which are 1911 style, so they have a category for smallest 1911 style, of which I can only think of the Para and Springfield.

I'd like to keep it to .380 and above if possible with a few exceptions.

Here are some who make small claims:
Kahr (various models)
Kel-Tec PF9, P11
Springfield EMP
ParaOrdnance CCO, PDA, CCW, Carry
NAA Guardian
Rohrbach
Seecamp
Ruger LCP
AMT Backup


So, what am I missing, and anyone care to fill in with some dimensions and the various claims these guys make? Is it advertising hype, or what?

Thanks.
 
fie2.jpg


FIE Arms .38 spcl

Others make derringers too.
 
Must be:

  • Reliable/dependable/flawlessly functioning
  • Controlable with the ammo used
  • Reloadable? - perhaps during CQC
  • Engineered with adequate safe-guards to prevent AD/ND
  • Concealable (by implication of "small")

When I use target loads in the AMT Backup, it jams repeatedly. Factory ammo provides flawless performance.

My thoughts only.

Bob
 
The smallest 1911 style is the Colt .380 Govt Model (also variants like the Mustang etc.), in appearance anyway,(not to be confused with the pocket autos of 1903 and 1908) These look like minature 1911's sans grip safety, and are of locked breech design. Actually they are based on a Charles Petter design rather than J.M. Browning. They are nifty pistols and were produced from the early to middle 80's thru the late 90's. I have seen them at gun shows and in gun shops in varying degrees of condition. I had one but sold it, alas. [frown]

As to what pistol is right for you, I think the answer is very simple: the one that you can shoot the best and feels "right to you." If you don't have the opportunity to borrow or rent these guns to try out, you may have to go through a 'trial and error" period where you purchase a gun, try it for a few months, and if dissatisfied move on to another model.

Mark L.
 
I'm intrigued by the Rohrbaugh R9, smallest 9mm Luger to date.
I've never held one though and unless I move out of MA, I probably never will!
 
Are you talking pocket gun or belt carry? There is a huge difference between the two. There are a lot of smaller guns (e.g., Kahr K9, Sig 239, Glock 19) that work well for belt carry but are way too big for pocket carry. If you are going carry on your belt, then a compact gun has less compromises than a gun used for pocket carry. I'm going to assume that you meant pocket carry.

Coyote33 said:
What do people here think? What's important in a small pistol? Length? Weight? Thickness?
Click to expand...

Yes.

For pocket carry, length, weight, and thickness are all important. For example, the Glock 26 is short enough and perhaps light enough, but way too thick for my pockets. The Kahr MK9 is short enough and thin enough, but a bit heavy. The Kahr PM9 works for me as a pocket gun.

There are a few which are 1911 style, so they have a category for smallest 1911 style, of which I can only think of the Para and Springfield.
Click to expand...
Outside of the Springfield EMP, I don't know of a 1911 that is small enough to be a pocket gun.[/quote]

This thread has an awesome chart that compares the sizes of various pocket guns: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=35511
 
Well, I love my Ruger sp101 38/357. Easy to handle, very accurate, can be concealed easily, reliable, just a really great little gun. I have no regrets with this purchase at all. Oh yes, a dream to clean.

Personally for a .22 - I really like the Ruger MarkIII - and will probably get one.
 
A S&W Model 63 or 34 is a perfect little 22 revolver for some one who's older and new to shooting.

Easy to load, clean and operate. You don't have a slide to pull back, no jams, no stove pipes, not fussy about what you feed them, light weight, nice small grip and their just as accurate as a semi if you use it in single action..
 
Smallest 9mm at the time it was built.

I own a Star M43 9 mm it was the smallest at the time . Unfortunately it weighed about the same as a 1911 government. It makes a good club when you run out of bullets.[grin]
 
Last edited:
Although a bit out of the parameters. I have to give a big thumbs up on the Keltec p3 (in .32). It has performed perfectly for a number of years. Tough, durable, tiny, light, ugly and plastic and 100% functional. Anywhere you could clip a folding knife you could clip this on you. Truly a go anywhere, any type of clothing, no excuse to not have it on you at all times piece.
 
M1911 said:
The Kahr PM9 works for me as a pocket gun.
Click to expand...

+1 I pocket carry a Kahr PM9 as well and I like it the best out of the different models I've tried. They are harder to find in Mass, but with a little time you should be able to find one. I would suggest a trigger job on it though to smooth it out a bit, but overall it's a very controllable 9mm
 
Been keeping an eye out for Kahrs but never see them on the shelves. I'm interested to see how the PM9 feels in my fat bastard hands. Any idea who carries them retail? Can't search from work (weapons sites are bad, you see).
 
KilgoreTrout said:
Been keeping an eye out for Kahrs but never see them on the shelves. I'm interested to see how the PM9 feels in my fat bastard hands. Any idea who carries them retail? Can't search from work (weapons sites are bad, you see).
Click to expand...

In MA? No one. They can't pass the AG's regulations.
 
Then why is the PM9 on one of the rosters linked at the GOAL site? Is that roster out of date?

Sorry if this is a noob question.
 
KilgoreTrout said:
Then why is the PM9 on one of the rosters linked at the GOAL site? Is that roster out of date?

Sorry if this is a noob question.
Click to expand...

Yup, it is a noob question. If you read paragraph 3 on the Approved Firearms Roster, you will see that is says the following:
Massachusetts licensed firearms dealers should note that the transfers of handguns are also subject to the Attorney General’s Handgun Sales Regulations, 940 CMR 16.00, et seq. Firearms on this Approved Firearms Roster do not necessarily comply with the requirements of the Attorney General’s Handgun Sales Regulations. Information about those regulations, as well as the Enforcement Notice may be obtained from the Office of the Attorney General and may be accessed on the website of the Attorney General (www.ago.state.ma.us).”
Click to expand...

Being on the EOPs Approved Firearms Roster is necessary but not sufficient. The handgun most also meet the Attorney General's regulations:

http://www.mass.gov/?pageID=cagoter...t&f=government_Regulations_940CMR16&csid=Cago

Specifically, Kahr pistols do not meet 16.05:

(2) It shall be an unfair or deceptive practice for a handgun-purveyor to transfer or offer to transfer to any customer located within the Commonwealth any handgun which does not contain a mechanism which effectively precludes an average five year old child from operating the handgun when it is ready to fire; such mechanisms shall include, but are not limited to: raising trigger resistance to at least a ten pound pull, altering the firing mechanism so that an average five year old child's hands are too small to operate the handgun, or requiring a series of multiple motions in order to fire the handgun.

(3) It shall be an unfair or deceptive practice for a handgun-purveyor to transfer or offer to transfer to any customer located within the Commonwealth any handgun which does not contain a load indicator or magazine safety disconnect.

(4) 940 CMR 16.05(2) shall not apply to handguns which have a hammer deactivation device. 940 CMR 16.05(3) applies only to handguns that have a mechanism to load cartridges via a magazine.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
I have a NAA Gaurdian .32 also. It will be up for sale as soon as I clean it. While it's convenient to carry, it's a bear to shoot. If I don't enjoy shooting it I'll never get proficient with it and I don't believe in carrying something you can't shoot well.
 
flhri03 said:
I have a NAA Gaurdian .32 also. It will be up for sale as soon as I clean it. While it's convenient to carry, it's a bear to shoot.
Click to expand...

I have one of those too. I probably haven't put 100 rounds through it, for just the reason that you describe.
 
mark056 said:
The smallest 1911 style is the Colt .380 Govt Model (also variants like the Mustang etc.), in appearance anyway,(not to be confused with the pocket autos of 1903 and 1908) These look like minature 1911's sans grip safety, and are of locked breech design. Actually they are based on a Charles Petter design rather than J.M. Browning. They are nifty pistols and were produced from the early to middle 80's thru the late 90's. I have seen them at gun shows and in gun shops in varying degrees of condition. I had one but sold it, alas. [frown]

As to what pistol is right for you, I think the answer is very simple: the one that you can shoot the best and feels "right to you." If you don't have the opportunity to borrow or rent these guns to try out, you may have to go through a 'trial and error" period where you purchase a gun, try it for a few months, and if dissatisfied move on to another model.

Mark L.
Click to expand...

Very expensive way to go, but yes, you are 100% correct.[grin]
 
I've been pocket carrying a kahr mk9 for many years now. It is a bit heavy and I'd love to try a PM9 but I haven't found anything else comparable for pocket carry. When I lived in Florida, I used to carry a keltec p32 which was great for pocket carry except that I could barely hit a man-sized target at 21' in a range setting with it (me, not the gun) so I sold it to a MAFer after moving to the PRoMA.
 

Similar threads

Gunsmiths for pistol slide and frame work
Replies
11
Views
417
DW357
DW357
Identify this pistol?
Replies
2
Views
368
cfwii1979
cfwii1979
Tisas pistols
Replies
22
Views
2K
Tallahassee
Tallahassee
Resealing Old Pellet Pistols
Replies
3
Views
973
paulleve
paulleve
How does a short barrelled rifle differ from a pistol?
Replies
10
Views
828
KBCraig
KBCraig
Back
Top Bottom