Smith & Wesson Model 686P or Model 627?

[WSCJonathan]

I've been going back and forth for a while and I've finally come to the conclusion that my next purchase is going to either be a 4 inch Model 686P or a Model 627. I've seen and held them both in person and I still can't quite make up my mind. It is going to exclusively be a range and home defense gun so size and weight won't be an issue.

More is always better, so I like the idea of 8 shots instead of 7. The only drawback I can see to that is there is only one manufacturer that makes a speed loader for the 627 and they aren't cheap. Is one more or less shot really going to make that much of a difference at a range or for personal defense?

The 627 is a "Pro Series" but I'm not quite sure what that means. I couldn't tell much of a difference between the two triggers but I'm not an expert and I've never shot a revolver before so I'm kind of a noob when it comes to them. For what it is worth I've read nothing but good things about both of the triggers. Just wondering if anyone who has shot both can shed some light on it for me.

The only other thing that really stood about between the two other than the 627 was just a little bit bigger (being a N frame) were the finishes. The 627 I checked out was the 5 inch version with the wood grips on and it was gorgeous. It has a "Silver Matte" finish and while it was more attractive it didn't seem like it would be as rugged or durable as the "Satin Stainless" finish on the 686P. Would there be a difference in wear between the two?

Any information about either gun would be really helpful. I have a feeling this is going to be the first of many revolver purchases. There is something about them I love, but can't quite put my finger on.

 

[eisenhow]

More is always better, so I like the idea of 8 shots instead of 7. The only drawback I can see to that is there is only one manufacturer that makes a speed loader for the 627 and they aren't cheap. Is one more or less shot really going to make that much of a difference at a range or for personal defense?

Do you mean the 7-shot 686? I'd use moon clips, not speed loaders, with the 627. The 686 ad 627 are both great guns. Personally if I was getting a 686 I'd get a 6-shot. There are a lot more speed loader options for the 6-shots than the 7-shots. If you ever decide to start competitive shooting the 6-shot would be better (than the 7-shot) for most games. Good luck with your search.

 

[WSCJonathan]

I know you can use moon clips, but it isn't something I'm all that interested in. Sure, they are great for competitions but I have no intention in using either gun for matches/competition of any kind. A couple of speed loaders for the range/house is good enough for me.

 

[chinalfr]

The 627 with 5" and wood grip is Performance Center gun from S&W website. If you do comparing revolver from performance center and the regular line of revolver, it's like comparing apples and oranges. IMO, I will shell out the extra for a Perfomance Center revolver.

 

[eisenhow]

The 627 with 5" and wood grip is Performance Center gun from S&W website. If you do comparing revolver from performance center and the regular line of revolver, it's like comparing apples and oranges. IMO, I will shell out the extra for a Perfomance Center revolver.

There are "regular", "pro series", and "performance center" lines. I've got a "pro series" 686SSR. It's nicer than a stock 686. Knowing what I know now I'd buy a regular one and send it out to a gunsmith for the same or less money and have a better revolver. I don't have any personal experience with the PC line.

 

[chinalfr]

There are "regular", "pro series", and "performance center" lines. I've got a "pro series" 686SSR. It's nicer than a stock 686. Knowing what I know now I'd buy a regular one and send it out to a gunsmith for the same or less money and have a better revolver. I don't have any personal experience with the PC line.

After the S&W tour, I'm impressed with the PC line. Every PC firearm go through a series of professional gun smiths hand work and inspection. I can't explain it in word, but live S&W plant tour will let you experienced it.

I will gladly spend the extra on S&W PC line.

 

[drgrant]

IMO the 7 shot is a bastard child type of gun and I'd never buy it. Get the 627 or stick with a regular 6 hole 686.

-Mike

 

[WSCJonathan]

The people over at S&W Forums like the 686P a lot. No one said a negative thing about it. In the end I'm going with the N Frame 627. The 686 is a great gun and the 627 is an amazing gun. From what everyone was saying anyway. Can't go wrong with either in the end.

 

[M1911]

More is always better, so I like the idea of 8 shots instead of 7.

Not always. If you want to shoot some disciplines you may not be able to do so with 7 or 8 shot revolvers. For example, for IDPA you need a 6 shot revolver. For me, the competitive aspect of IDPA has made me a far better revolver shooter today than I was when I started using the revolver in IDPA last November.

The only drawback I can see to that is there is only one manufacturer that makes a speed loader for the 627 and they aren't cheap. Is one more or less shot really going to make that much of a difference at a range or for personal defense?

Speedloaders are very important. HKS speedloaders just suck, and Comp III or Jetloaders are a whole lot better than Comp Is.

 

[M1911]

I will gladly spend the extra on S&W PC line.

I won't.

I have a 629 V-Comp, which is a Performance Center gun. I also have a plain Model 66 that I sent off to a good revolver gunsmith for an action job. If you dry-fire my V-Comp and then my Model 66, you'll never pick up the V-Comp again.

 

[WSCJonathan]

M1911, I hear ya. I know about the 6 shot revolver rule. I'm not planing on doing any IDPA shooting soon, if ever. I know it is a good point to bring up in case someone isn't familiar with the rules but it is going to be a range and home defense gun and not a competition gun. I plan on using speed loaders and not moon clips. I know that 5 Star makes good loaders for the 627 but they aren't cheap. It was just more of a thought than a concern. I know there are more options for the 686 than the 627.

I liked the 5 inch PC Model 627. I dry fired it and a 686 back to back and couldn't tell much of a difference. I know it is a LE and comes in a fancy case with two sets of grips but that doesn't justify the expense to me over a 686, 686P, or 4 inch 627. I am new to revolvers but that's just what I thought at the time.

 

[M1911]

M1911, I hear ya. I know about the 6 shot revolver rule. I'm not planing on doing any IDPA shooting soon, if ever. I know it is a good point to bring up in case someone isn't familiar with the rules but it is going to be a range and home defense gun and not a competition gun.

I've got three k-frames. Only one is a game gun. When I carry one of the other two, I use the same speedloaders. The basic skills carry over.

IMO, revolvers require more practice under stress to become proficient than semi-autos. It is hard to master the trigger control, it is easy to short stroke the trigger, and it is very easy to fumble the reloads. I've been shooting my 66 in IDPA for the past 8 months or so, usually at least two matches per month. I practice my reloads in my basement at least once per week. And at the match on Saturday I still fumbled two reloads, dropping the rounds at my feet. What I'm trying to say is that for home defense you might want to consider participating in some action shooting game, as it will greatly improve your skill with the revolver.

I plan on using speed loaders and not moon clips. I know that 5 Star makes good loaders for the 627 but they aren't cheap.

5 star speedloaders appear to be basically metal versions of the HKS speedloaders, and as a result they suck. Really.

HKS and 5 star require you to insert the rounds into the chamber, secure the cylinder, and turn the knob. They depend upon gravity for the rounds to drop into the chambers. In addition, the HKS speedloaders allow the rounds to jiggle a lot, making them harder to line up with the charge holes. The 5 stars look pretty, but I wouldn't use them if you gave them to me for free.

In contrast, the Safariland comp I, comp III and JetLoader hold the rounds more securely. They don't require you to turn a knob - just push in to the cylinder. They then trip and use spring tension to force the rounds into the chambers. I can hold my revolver horizontally and reload with a comp I, comp III or jetloader. Furthermore, they don't require you to secure the cylinder or have the gun pointed downwards while reloading, giving you more options for your reloading technique. The comp I, comp III, and jetloaders are faster and easier to use than HKS-style speedloaders, IMO.

So for me, the availability of proper speedloaders is a huge deal because when you only have 6 rounds, reloading speed is very important.

If you can make it to Wayland some time, I'll take you to my range, show you three different techniques for reloading revolvers, and let you try HKS, Comp I, Comp III, and JetLoader speedloaders.

 

[saltydude]

I have both & these days they pretty much just collect dust. Reason being is USPSA never made provisions for a revolver class to accept more that 6 rounds. When I shoot revolver I always grab the 625. Fast loading moon clips & easily makes major. It does'nt seem to be an issue for you but thats my hang up.
The 686P is a good range gun but unless you have the cylinder cut for moon clips it's a real hassle to reload quickly.
Traditional 7 shot speed loaders (the plastic ones anyway) absoulutely suck & should never have been manufactured in the first place. The holes are so tight & close together the thin walls end up cracking in no time flat. This causes the rims of the caseings to get hung up & a whole slew of other problems.

 

[WSCJonathan]

5 Star might not be as good as Safariland, S. L. Variant, etc. but it doesn't matter because they don't make 8 shot loaders. If they did I would certainly take your advice and buy a few. If I have to live with a good, but not great loader that is made in the USA so be it. 9 out of the 10 or so reviews/posts I’ve come across seem positive. I'm not using it for competition so saving a few tenths of a second aren't going to matter. Not enough to consider another gun anyway. Especially one with two less shots.

Sure, those same tenths of a second might matter for home defense purposes but I look at it this way. One, if six or even eight shots doesn't eliminate a threat or buy me enough time to get to another firearm I'm in some serious trouble. Two, having two extra shots before you have to reload is a time saver to begin with. Either way I'll make sure to build up enough muscle memory so that no matter which gun/loader/strip/or whatever I go with I’ll have practice loading and unloading.

 

[finest]

I could not decide between the 6 shot 686 or the 8 shot 627 so after getting a 686 for a good price. i then found a nice 627 pro series for short money a few months later.i find myself using the 627 more becauseof the speed of using the moon clips.

 

[sploosh]

are there matches allowing 8 rounds ? how many rounds are allowed for semi-auto matches?

 

[M1911]

5 Star might not be as good as Safariland, S. L. Variant, etc. but it doesn't matter because they don't make 8 shot loaders. If they did I would certainly take your advice and buy a few. If I have to live with a good, but not great loader that is made in the USA so be it. 9 out of the 10 or so reviews/posts I’ve come across seem positive. I'm not using it for competition so saving a few tenths of a second aren't going to matter.

Dude, it isn't tenths of a second. For me, it is more than a second longer, probably two, and far more likely to wind up with 6 rounds on the ground at my feet. And we're not talking about winning a competition, we're talking about your life.

Seriously. Have you tried them? I have. I'm offering you the option.

Given the option between an 8-round revolver with HKS versus 6 rounds with Comp III or JetLoader, I'd take 8-round with moon clips. Wait, you don't like those either. I'd take 6 rounds with Comp IIIs or Jetloaders long before I'd take an 8-round revolver with HKS.

I've done this under pressure. A lot. Have you?

Come to the range with me and try it for yourself. Then you'll have direct experience to tell me I'm full of it. Heck, I'll even bring a moon-clip gun along for fun. And, I'm nicer in person than online...

 

[fencer]

Welcome to the forum. Both are fine revolvers and you will be very happy with either.

I have a 4" 686 and it is an absolute joy to shoot. Buy what makes you happy. You won't regret it and you will probably end up with a safe full any way.

Enjoy your new wheel gun! Start saving for your next one!

 

[M1911]

are there matches allowing 8 rounds ?

ICORE

how many rounds are allowed for semi-auto matches?

That depends on the discipline and the division.

 

[WSCJonathan]

Finest, any differences stand out between the two? Other than 6 vs 8 anyway. Trigger, accuracy, feel, etc... Any info would be greatly appreciated!

 

[WSCJonathan]

Dude, it isn't tenths of a second. For me, it is more than a second longer, probably two, and far more likely to wind up with 6 rounds on the ground at my feet. And we're not talking about winning a competition, we're talking about your life.

Seriously. Have you tried them? I have. I'm offering you the option.

Given the option between an 8-round revolver with HKS versus 6 rounds with Comp III or JetLoader, I'd take 8-round with moon clips. Wait, you don't like those either. I'd take 6 rounds with Comp IIIs or Jetloaders long before I'd take an 8-round revolver with HKS.

I'm being a little facetious because it is a moot point. 5 Star makes speed loaders for the 627. No one else does (HK, Safariland, etc...). If you own a 5 Star speed loader and you are telling me straight up they suck then you think they suck. If that is the case it doesn't change the fact that from what I have read you would be in a very small minority. Are they the best speed loaders made for any type of revolver in the world? No, and I never said they were. In the end they are the best of the limited options. I'm looking to save a little time at the range, nothing more, and nothing less. If Safariland decides to make 8 shot speed loaders I'll be happy to buy them. If they are as awesome as you say they are I'll personally send you a PM with my thanks. Until then it is comparing apples to nothing.

There isn't anything wrong with moon clips. They are probably a more viable home/personal defense option than any brand of speed loader. I'll try them and if I like them a lot I'll invest in a bunch and the tools you need to load/unload them effectively. I don’t see the need for them in a range gun. In the end I might be wrong. I’m sure lots of 627 owners never use them because they aren’t participating in any type of shooting competition.

I had one small sentence/point about how there are more, and apparently better speed loaders for the 686 as opposed to the 627. It is by far the least important aspect of how the guns differ to me.

 

[M1911]

I'm being a little facetious because it is a moot point. 5 Star makes speed loaders for the 627. No one else does (HK, Safariland, etc...). If you own a 5 Star speed loader and you are telling me straight up they suck then you think they suck. If that is the case it doesn't change the fact that from what I have read you would be in a very small minority. Are they the best speed loaders made for any type of revolver in the world? No, and I never said they were. In the end they are the best of the limited options.

No, I don't own 5-star speedloaders. I have read their web site and read reviews of them. They are basically a metal HKS speedloader. They appear well crafted. But the problem with HKS speedloaders is not the craftsmanship -- HKS speedloaders work as designed. The problem is that the design sucks, and as a result both HKS and 5-star suck, IMHO.

Come on out to the range. I'll bring HKS, Comp I, Comp III, and JetLoader. You can try them yourself. More first person information is better. I'll show you why I think they suck and why I think it is important. You can decide that I'm full of it. Or not. I'll even pay for the ammo.

I'm a firearms instructor certified to teach NRA Basic Pistol. I'm classified as Sharpshooter in the SSR division (speedloader revolvers) in IDPA, which means I'm not great, but not bad either.

I'm looking to save a little time at the range, nothing more, and nothing less.

Really?

It is going to exclusively be a range and home defense gun so size and weight won't be an issue.

So you're convinced you won't have to reload in a home defense situation?

There isn't anything wrong with moon clips. They are probably a more viable home/personal defense option than any brand of speed loader. I'll try them and if I like them a lot I'll invest in a bunch and the tools you need to load/unload them effectively.

It isn't a big investment. In fact, you may spend less on moon clips than you would on speedloaders. Looking at Brownells, JetLoaders cost $25 each. I've got 6. Safariland Comp Is are $14, and Comp IIIs are $20. HKS are $15. And 5 star are $20.

In contrast, moon clips are $1 to $2 each and you can get a moon clip stripper for less than $20. I love moon clips. Far easier to reload than speedloaders, cartridges don't get hung up in chambers, and they are great for retrieving your brass on the range.

I know you have your heart set on something else, but come on out and challenge (or confirm) your assumptions with first hand knowledge. I'll bring a 19, two 66s, a 625 with moonclips, and Performance Center 629.

Oh well. I've made the offer. Nothing more I can do.

 

[WSCJonathan]

Honestly, I appreciate the offer and you obviously know a lot more about this stuff than I do. I just think that for whatever reason we aren't seeing eye to eye.

This is my first revolver. I might love them to the point that I want to spend the time/effort/cost of competitive shooting. In that case I'll get a 6 shot revolver. It isn't what I'm interested in right now though.

I am trying to decide between two similiar range guns. Sure, it is also going to be a home defense gun. What gun isn't? If you had to defend yourself are you going to grab a bat/weapon or ANY gun at your disposal. If I fire off eight shots and the result looks like the scene from Pulp Fiction with the hand cannon I have bigger problems than an average speed loader in my pocket.

That's pretty much it, not who makes the best six shot revolvers or speed loaders for competitive shooting. I don't doubt for a minute you know your stuff.

 

[eisenhow]

are there matches allowing 8 rounds ? how many rounds are allowed for semi-auto matches?

ICORE

The 8-shot is also a good fit for steel challenge and knockdown steel like Walls of Steel.

WSCJonathan good luck with whatever you choose. If you end up going with the 627 give the moon clips a try. I think after you've tried them you'll find that you like them better than speed loaders. Also start saving your brass now. You may not reload and have no intentions of doing so. If you decide to load in the future you'll find that nobody leaves their .38/.357 brass behind.

Does the WSC in your user name happen to stand for Westford Sortsmens Club? If so welcome to the club!

 

[WSCJonathan]

Thanks Eisenhow, I'm 99% sure I'm going to order a 4 inch 627PC sometime in the next couple of weeks. I'll post some pics of it when it comes in.

I don't reload yet, but save all my brass for when I do. It is one of the reasons why I am interested in .357/.44 revolvers. I love how you can customize your own loads from soft shooting specials all the way up to flame throwing magnums.

WSC = Worcester State. I don't think I could even point out Westford on a map. Haha...

 

[TonyT]

You can use the 8 shot pro series S&W 627 with moonclips or load the rounds singly. The moonclips are ca $75 per 100 from Ranch Products. Monnclips provide for the speediest reloads with a revolver.

I've been going back and forth for a while and I've finally come to the conclusion that my next purchase is going to either be a 4 inch Model 686P or a Model 627. I've seen and held them both in person and I still can't quite make up my mind. It is going to exclusively be a range and home defense gun so size and weight won't be an issue.

More is always better, so I like the idea of 8 shots instead of 7. The only drawback I can see to that is there is only one manufacturer that makes a speed loader for the 627 and they aren't cheap. Is one more or less shot really going to make that much of a difference at a range or for personal defense?

The 627 is a "Pro Series" but I'm not quite sure what that means. I couldn't tell much of a difference between the two triggers but I'm not an expert and I've never shot a revolver before so I'm kind of a noob when it comes to them. For what it is worth I've read nothing but good things about both of the triggers. Just wondering if anyone who has shot both can shed some light on it for me.

The only other thing that really stood about between the two other than the 627 was just a little bit bigger (being a N frame) were the finishes. The 627 I checked out was the 5 inch version with the wood grips on and it was gorgeous. It has a "Silver Matte" finish and while it was more attractive it didn't seem like it would be as rugged or durable as the "Satin Stainless" finish on the 686P. Would there be a difference in wear between the two?

Any information about either gun would be really helpful. I have a feeling this is going to be the first of many revolver purchases. There is something about them I love, but can't quite put my finger on.

 

[WSCJonathan]

I just wanted to thank everyone who took the time to help answer my questions. It took some calling around and a special order but I was able to find one for a great price. $769 before tax at Four Seasons. They ordered two so there is still one left in the case for anyone interested.

Thanks again for all of the help.

Now it's time to hit the range!

 

[Keystone]

I just wanted to thank everyone who took the time to help answer my questions. It took some calling around and a special order but I was able to find one for a great price. $769 before tax at Four Seasons. They ordered two so there is still one left in the case for anyone interested.

Thanks again for all of the help.

Now it's time to hit the range!


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Purty