Somerville police officer wounded after ‘unintentional discharge’ of gun

drgrant said:
I've been trying to find the video of the two guys sitting in the cop truck and the gun fires and then the guy asks the other guy "You just see that, right? it was in The holster I wasn't touching it and it fired!" Etc. One of the appendices says that the video actually exists
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It does exsist, I have seen it.
 
You guys aren't wrong and I'm not trying to argue with you, there's definitely possibilities of actual AD's. I'm just saying that when actual negligence occurs whether is intentional or not most people will try to play it off as an accident. Regarding if the P320 is actually safe or not you couldn't pay me to carry one IWB.
 
Ron Jablonski said:
You guys aren't wrong and I'm not trying to argue with you, there's definitely possibilities of actual AD's. I'm just saying that when actual negligence occurs whether is intentional or not most people will try to play it off as an accident. Regarding if the P320 is actually safe or not you couldn't pay me to carry one IWB.
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I think for most cases the gun is actually pretty safe I think these incidents involving weird combination of factors. One of the things that's problematic is they don't really seem to say whether the guns involved are pre or post recall. The post recall P320 is infinitely more stable internally
 
PATRON said:
OOPS dropped my donut.
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wiggum-donuts.gif
 
Can I ask a dumb question? If the possibility for an AD is so great with the p320 then why don't more departments ditch them and go with something like a Glock or m&p? I'm also a big fan of the p226/229 and when carrying OWB the weight argument in null and void and the DA/SA argument is easily bypassed with minimal training. I'm not a cop but I have shot some of their qual courses with a p226 no problem.
 
Ron Jablonski said:
Can I ask a dumb question? If the possibility for an AD is so great with the p320 then why don't more departments ditch them and go with something like a Glock or m&p? I'm also a big fan of the p226/229 and when carrying OWB the weight argument in null and void and the DA/SA argument is easily bypassed with minimal training. I'm not a cop but I have shot some of their qual courses with a p226 no problem.
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Probably because Sig ballwashed them a certain way and they sucked for the contract. Then whoever made that decision has to go back to (upper echelon) people and admit they
made a mistake and eat a big turd. Good luck with that happening. [laugh]

ETA: Also even if you ignroe the cost of the gun consider the cost of retraining. IMHO for marginal to horrible shooters, a P320 is easier to shoot than a Glock or an M&P. So now you have to make them learn a little moar skills to even qual.

Also I wouldn't say that its "so great" I would hazard a guess its more in the realm of "non zero possibility". You take a PD with 100 people on it carrying guns hundreds of hours
and that turns into 1 incident a year or something avg thats not a high fail rate but still enough to be alarming. I think Somerville has had it happen more than once and I think Cambridge might be up to 2 now or something, lol.

This whole thing is pretty bad though I'm surprised it hasnt come to a head sooner. I think the only reason it hasnt is because the millutary version (M17, M18 etc) has a safety and the safety lever, if engaged, blocks up the whole works when its "on" which cuts the issues off at the pass.
 
drgrant said:
Probably because Sig ballwashed them a certain way and they sucked for the contract. Then whoever made that decision has to go back to (upper echelon) people and admit they
made a mistake and eat a big turd. Good luck with that happening. [laugh]

Also I wouldn't say that its "so great" I would hazard a guess its more in the realm of "non zero possibility". You take a PD with 100 people on it carrying guns hundreds of hours
and that turns into 1 incident a year or something avg thats not a high fail rate but still enough to be alarming. I think Somerville has had it happen more than once and I think Cambridge might be up to 2 now or something, lol.

This whole thing is pretty bad though I'm surprised it hasnt come to a head sooner. I think the only reason it hasnt is because the millutary version (M17, M18 etc) has a safety and the safety lever, if engaged, blocks up the whole works when its "on" which cuts the issues off at the pass.
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That makes sense, I was also wondering why these types of stories have been coming out from the military as much as they have from PD's all over the country. Long story short, I like my d*ck so no p320 appendix carry for me, I'll stick with hammer fired DA/SA.
 
stinx said:
It’s actually Milwaukee not Mi.
www.wisn.com

MPD guns fired on their own twice in 6 months

The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320.
www.wisn.com www.wisn.com
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from the article:
When he got back to his office, Groszczyk wrote, he noted the gun's safety lever spring was not present in Parks' gun.
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So either it was never installed, removed post delivery to the end user or it was never returned for recall.
 
stinx said:
Minneapolis police have on video A320 discharging while a detective was walking his hands full of stuff the holstered gun went off.additionally there is a department in the middle of the country that has on video a officer on a traffic stop and it’s caught on the dash cam as he’s walking towards the violators car his hands in plain sight the gun goes off in the holster. A gentleman in Hillsborough New Hampshire had his holster 320 go off the police report clearly indicate based on the damage of the holster the gun was in its holster when discharged and there’s more you just need to know where to look for it
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Interesting - do you have links to these videos?
 
I'm sure it's the guns fault, because it's one of those automatic guns which go off on their own and kill lots of people. All guns are really dangerous. Heck, even revolvers go off on their own if their trigger pull is less than 20 lbs, especially if the owner takes off the revolver's safety.






[devil]
 
Ron Jablonski said:
That makes sense, I was also wondering why these types of stories have been coming out from the military as much as they have from PD's all over the country. Long story short, I like my d*ck so no p320 appendix carry for me, I'll stick with hammer fired DA/SA.
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Military model has the external safety.
 
If I was a judge hearing a case involving a gun that "just went off", I'd have the gun loaded and chambered and placed on a table. If it doesn't
"go off" in 24 hours I'd dismiss the case.
 
While inadvertently shooting yourself can happen on top of mechanical failure which has been known to happen. Those Sigs were firing when you take the safety off… Probably why you should pointed at yourself at any point.

I’m still having a hard time seeing how you shoot yourself with a holstered weapon other than those really shitty plastic Sig holsters… What I didn’t like about them I if you bought the one with the night sights you had a file out your holster to make it fit in that was the advice they gave you… That sounds like liability right there.
 
MGnoob said:
I’m still having a hard time seeing how you shoot yourself with a holstered weapon other than those really shitty plastic Sig holsters…
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See below.
drgrant said:
... Glock NDs where cops catch falling glocks, get shirt and raincoat lanyards stuck in trigger guard, etc.
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Also:
main-qimg-eb2f8b93f6edbf322ea278e21b795b66-lq
 
MGnoob said:
. Those Sigs were firing when you take the safety off… Probably why you should pointed at yourself at any point.
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I’ve never heard this before. All the cases I’ve seen where of the gun in a holster and going off without touching the gun at all.
 
drgrant said:
ETA: Also even if you ignroe the cost of the gun consider the cost of retraining. IMHO for marginal to horrible shooters, a P320 is easier to shoot than a Glock or an M&P. So now you have to make them learn a little moar skills to even qual.
Click to expand...

I have owned and shot all 3. I'm not sure I agree with you on this. Honestly I can't say one is easier to shoot than the other. Compared to a hammer fired DA/SA or SAO they are all much easier to operate.

The real problem is not the skills required to qualify rather we have lower the bar so much when it comes to common sense and smarts to get the job.
 
ddraper said:
I have owned and shot all 3. I'm not sure I agree with you on this. Honestly I can't say one is easier to shoot than the other. Compared to a hammer fired DA/SA or SAO they are all much easier to operate.

The real problem is not the skills required to qualify rather we have lower the bar so much when it comes to common sense and smarts to get the job.
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Lol I realize that's subjective/nuanced. and also now realize I shouldn't have been that elaborate. My main point was really that there's side costs in a PD switching guns.
 
The world would be a safer place if everyone just carried CZs.
  • Double action / single action
  • Firing pin block
  • Decocker
  • The smaller one (Compact model) has a loaded chamber indicator as well. CZs01.jpeg
 
I like CZs but these kinds of guns are not suitable as duty guns in 2022. Maybe a P10C, F.
 
drgrant said:
I like CZs but these kinds of guns are not suitable as duty guns in 2022. Maybe a P10C, F.
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no one would want to carry such a brick all day.
and, there are already plenty of glocks to choose from.
 

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