Storing Weapon In Vehicle

[mikerossi1976]

Not legal.

Is it legal to store an unloaded firearm in a vehicle? Is a full mag thats not in the gun but stored with the gun considered "Loaded"?

 

[KBCraig]

I have one of these. Great little box and you can wrap the cord around your seat mount. Then just tuck it away under the seat. Mine is always in my car under my drivers seat.

I use two when I travel by air, with the cables wrapped around the handle braces inside the suitcase. Gun, knife, and empty magazine go in one; ammo and two empty spare mags go in the other.

 

[KBCraig]

I bought the Stack On lock box at Tractor Supply. My only complaint is with the keys. The end that goes on your key ring is just plastic. Mine broke off my keyring, and I almost lost it.

Mine didn't break, but the keys were lost. Stack-On requires a copy of your DL, a notarized statement, and a copy of your original sales receipt before they'll sell you another key for ten bucks. Who the heck has the original receipt for a box bought five years ago?

Meh. The boxes are only $20 new. I bought two more when I lost the key to the first one; when I get around to it, I'll just drill that lock out and replace it.

 

[MisterHappy]

Is it legal to store an unloaded firearm in a vehicle? Is a full mag thats not in the gun but stored with the gun considered "Loaded"?

This should have been covered in your LTC class.

If you're TRANSPORTING, and the gun is not under your direct control, it must be unloaded (no ammo on the chamber(s) or in a mag inserted in the gun, and it must be locked in a container.

If you're STORING the gun must be in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant lock (trigger or cable lock). The lock is not acceptable for transport.

Massprudence indicates that the handgun not on your person be in a locked container, unloaded. That way, you're good for both storage and transport.


Now, whether, it smart to store a gun in an unoccupied vehicle......

 

[scooter]

This should have been covered in your LTC class.

If you're TRANSPORTING, and the gun is not under your direct control, it must be unloaded (no ammo on the chamber(s) or in a mag inserted in the gun, and it must be locked in a container.

If you're STORING the gun must be in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant lock (trigger or cable lock). The lock is not acceptable for transport.

Massprudence indicates that the handgun not on your person be in a locked container, unloaded. That way, you're good for both storage and transport.


Now, whether, it smart to store a gun in an unoccupied vehicle......

I believe what he wanted to know if the need came to store or transport a firearm in a car about where the ammo/mags be? Firearm should be locked in a container and the ammo/mags be stored separately in another locked container.

 

[GlockJock]

This should have been covered in your LTC class.
If you're TRANSPORTING, and the gun is not under your direct control, it must be unloaded (no ammo on the chamber(s) or in a mag inserted in the gun, and it must be locked in a container.
If you're STORING the gun must be in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant lock (trigger or cable lock). The lock is not acceptable for transport.
Massprudence indicates that the handgun not on your person be in a locked container, unloaded. That way, you're good for both storage and transport.
Now, whether, it smart to store a gun in an unoccupied vehicle......

But there are times when it's, unfortunately, necessary to "store" it in an unoccupied vehicle. Driving around on business, etc, and oops - you have to stop at the a)court ..b)school... c)anywhere else where you're prohibited/metal detector, like City Hall, etc. Sometimes life & timing takes us to "situations" where you can't take the CCW into a certain location for 2 minutes, but want/need it on you for the remainder of the 18 hours you're on the road, etc etc...
Also summertime - beach etc...Heading to the cape for a long day. You want to carry, but definitely not on the beach ...a G26 kinda leaves an extra, odd looking "bump" inside the Speedo, y'know?
("Excuse me - is that an extended mag or are you just happy to see me?")

 

[oppressed]

I have gone back and researched other threads on this subject. Almost every thread cites transport laws and class B storage laws when the question asked is about storage: "with a Class A license can I STORE a LOADED handgun in a lock box in my parked unoccupied car".

Only one stated that it was "massprudence" to store it unloaded, but where is the cited law? I have not seen anything yet that states you must store a handgun unloaded under the condition in quotes.

I am not saying that it is not good advice to not store it loaded because you can't trust the copper to know the law correctly.

Also, in the case of a pickup truck, is a lockable glove box sufficient for AMMO storage? I know it isn't good enough for gun storage.

Thanks for letting me beat the dead horse some more. I really would like to know the best answer so I can comply.

With the change of the law doing away with class A/B designation does it change anything? Maybe there is a hangup there.

 

[Len-2A Training]

There is no difference in MGL wrt the requirements on what constitiutes "storage" between having an LTC-A or LTC-B.

The only thing that a LTC-A allows you to do (wrt transportation) is carry loaded on your person (maybe, if unrestricted).

A (former) CO was convicted for illegal storage when he left his loaded handgun in his glove box in a parking lot. He claimed that he locked the glove box. Everyone agreed that he locked the car and the judge ruled that a locked car is not a "locked container".

FOPA has specific requirements on transporting ammo, however MGL has NONE. You do not have to lock it up anywhere in a vehicle. Out of sight, out of mind is best to avoid issues with lookie-loos calling police or police who start sniffing around for a crime, but there is nothing in MGL requiring anything more than no loaded mags (or ammo) physically in a gun during transportation (other than LTC-A/none carrying a handgun on one's person). There is a hunting law that implies that having any loaded long gun mags in a vehicle (even if NOT hunting) may be a law violation however.

 

[beaker]

Is it legal to store an unloaded firearm in a vehicle? Is a full mag thats not in the gun but stored with the gun considered "Loaded"?

Yes during transportation (in your car) as long as the gun is locked up in a container. The ammunition can be near the gun, stored with the gun, just not in the gun when being transported in your vehicle.

 

[Palladin]

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131c

 

[oppressed]

Guys, the questions being posed are for storage and the answers you keep giving regard transportation. The question I have pertains to storage of a handgun in a vehicle in a lock box loaded. Class A handgun, not shotgun or rifle.

Am I asking the wrong question because nobody differentiates between storage and transportation?

 

[jasons]

Not legal.

It's perfectly legal to store a loaded firearm. Transport (aka "Carrying in a vehicle") is different but that's not what the OP is asking about.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131L

Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user.

Nothing in there says it needs to be unloaded.

 

[Phil731]

After reading it, the way I understand it, is that it's ok for me to store my gun in my trunk as long as it's in a locked case and unloaded?

 

[jasons]

After reading it, the way I understand it, is that it's ok for me to store my gun in my trunk as long as it's in a locked case and unloaded?

Technically it doesn't have to be unloaded for storage. Once you get in the car you're then "carrying in a vehicle" and it has to be either unloaded and locked up or in your direct control. (Assuming you're talking about a pistol, and assuming you have an LTC-A. Transportation rules are a bit different for long guns and "lesser" licenses.)


This is the TRANSPORT law:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131c


This is the STORAGE law:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section131L



For what it's worth, I keep one of these in each of my vehicles for the rare occasions that I have to go somewhere where I can't carry: http://www.gunvault.com/nanovault-200.html. You can find them (or something very similar) at pretty much any gun shop in the country.

 

[DONALDG-HOG]

Get a smaller pistol, put it in your front pocket. What gun? I worked in a secure facility years ago and used to take the slide and barrel off and bring the frame in locked in a box, which was then locked in the coat room. I currently use a small box that I screwed into the floor- really only for random trips into my kids school.

 

[Terminator03]

Guys, the questions being posed are for storage and the answers you keep giving regard transportation. The question I have pertains to storage of a handgun in a vehicle in a lock box loaded. Class A handgun, not shotgun or rifle.

Am I asking the wrong question because nobody differentiates between storage and transportation?

You question was very clearly answered in several different ways on the previous page. The bottom line is that if you are "storing" the gun in your car, whether driving or not, it is in your best interest to have the mag separate from the gun (or cartridges out of a revolver) - period. If you decide to leave one in the pipe, and a mag inserted, while it sits in your driveway, it probably won't make a difference either way, but anywhere off your own property is a gray area, and you risk getting jammed up for having a loaded firearm that is not under your direct control. I'm really not sure where the confusion lies. As Len pointed out there is no legal requirement to even lock the ammo up, but obviously having it out of sight is a good idea. The only part that is slightly a gray area (to me) with regard to transport is whether its ok to have the mag locked in the same box as the "unloaded" gun.

 

[jasons]

....but anywhere off your own property is a gray area....

It's really not gray at all. Storage is storage whether it's on your property or not. If you're thinking about Reyes, the only thing "gray" was whether or not he had his firearm properly stored as per section 131L.

A couple key tidbits from Reyes (emphasis mine):

This court concluded that G. L. c. 140, § 131L (a) and (b), the firearm storage statute, was not unconstitutionally vague, in that the text, legislative history, related statutory and regulatory provisions, and other secondary materials establish a common understanding and practice regarding the secure storage of firearms in locked containers, against which to measure conduct proscribed under the statute [248-254]; further, this court concluded that a locked motor vehicle itself could not, as a matter of law, constitute a securely locked container [254-255], but that the adequacy under the storage statute of a locked glove compartment in a locked motor vehicle was a question of fact properly decided by the fact finder at trial

and

This court concluded that G. L. c. 140, § 131C (a), the firearm carrying statute, does not apply once a person leaves a motor vehicle and a firearm in it; consequently, at the trial of a criminal complaint charging improper carrying of a firearm arising from the defendant's having left a firearm in his locked motor vehicle, the evidence was insufficient as a matter of law to sustain the defendant's conviction.

Here's more on Reyes for those interested:
http://masscases.com/cases/sjc/464/464mass245.html

 

[spt_1955]

Zero accessibility with these options. Try a biometric and a cable. On floor behind passenger seat. There are youtube videos if you look.

Skulen iz besd lefd tu teechuz.

Agree with biometric or at least electronic if accessibility is a need.

I have 2 of these (one of which I got in NES classifieds for $30) and they are cheaper than biometric.

http://www.amazon.com/Stack-On-PC-6...sim_hi_12?ie=UTF8&refRID=1JCH65JF87BNSEYZCJYZ

The original question only asks about leaving in car while going into a prohibited place. The keyed Stack-on is a fine low cost option for that particular need. Just remember that any of these options will only defer a smash and grab or maybe even a quick teenage joyride. Your car gets stolen assume you are losing your firearm also.

 

[CTpatriot]

I take mine into work with me and lock it in a file cabinet that only I have the key to.

I also have that stackon lock box in my trunk with the cable wrapped around the trunk hinge for when I go to to the post office.

i carry in post offices, probably because i feel the risk of getting found out is miniscule compared to the benefit of safety.

 

[Palladin]

It's really not gray at all. Storage is storage whether it's on your property or not. If you're thinking about Reyes, the only thing "gray" was whether or not he had his firearm properly stored as per section 131L.

A couple key tidbits from Reyes (emphasis mine):


and



Here's more on Reyes for those interested:
http://masscases.com/cases/sjc/464/464mass245.html

so was Reyes retried?? what was the outcome?

Conclusion. In sum, although we reject the defendant's constitutional claims, we nevertheless reverse his conviction under the carrying statute and direct a verdict in his favor based on the insufficiency of the evidence. Additionally, we reverse the defendant's conviction under the storage statute due to the judge's deficient jury instructions, and we remand the case to the District Court for retrial on the complaint charging a violation of G. L. c. 140, § 131L (a) and (b).

So ordered.

 

[jasons]

so was Reyes retried?? what was the outcome?

From our friends at Comm2A:

The SJC determined the Mr. Reyes was entitled to a directed verdict of not guilty on the charge of carrying in a vehicle. They also reversed the storage conviction based upon insufficient jury instructions and remanded that case to the district court for further proceedings. The court failed to adopt Comm2A's position that a locked vehicle itself constitutes a secure container. Although the locked trunk of a vehicle meets the statutory definition of a secure container, the locked passenger compartment of a vehicle does not even though a locked trunk can be opened from the interior of most modern automobiles. Comm2A's brief was submitted by attorney Keith G. Langer.

(http://www.comm2a.org/index.php/55-projects/100-reyes)

They over-rode (directed verdict of not guilty) the BS conviction on the transport charge (since he was not in fact "carrying a firearm in a vehicle,") and sent the storage charge back to district court for a retrial. As far as I know that retrial never happened, not sure if the charge got dropped or if it's still pending or what.

 

[Parker Duofold]

You'd think the police would have better things to do other than jamming up lawful gun owners...like pulling people over for not having their headlights on during intermittent rain.

 

[scooter]

You question was very clearly answered in several different ways on the previous page. The bottom line is that if you are "storing" the gun in your car, whether driving or not, it is in your best interest to have the mag separate from the gun (or cartridges out of a revolver) - period. If you decide to leave one in the pipe, and a mag inserted, while it sits in your driveway, it probably won't make a difference either way, but anywhere off your own property is a gray area, and you risk getting jammed up for having a loaded firearm that is not under your direct control. I'm really not sure where the confusion lies. As Len pointed out there is no legal requirement to even lock the ammo up, but obviously having it out of sight is a good idea. The only part that is slightly a gray area (to me) with regard to transport is whether its ok to have the mag locked in the same box as the "unloaded" gun.

It is my understanding that the mag or ammo is not to be locked together in the same container. I personally do not want to be the test subject for an interpretation

 

[jasons]

It is my understanding that the mag or ammo is not to be locked together in the same container. I personally do not want to be the test subject for an interpretation

There's nothing in the MGLs that says you can't store ammo in the same locked container as the firearm, or for that matter even in the firearm. (Again we're talking storage here, not transport. There is a difference.) Even in Reyes the court had no issue with the fact that the stored gun was loaded, their issue was that, in their opinion, the car itself wasn't a locked container.

With that said, if you'd rather store the ammo separately for whatever reason that's OK too.

 

[Downwind]

At a GOAL SEMINAR I was told :

While you are in the vehicle, the firearm is in a TRANSPORTATION situation.

As soon as you leave the vehicle the firearm is considered to be in a STORAGE situation. (even if you step out of the vehicle for a second)

Hope this helps

DOWNWIND

 

[mikerossi1976]

This should have been covered in your LTC class.

If you're TRANSPORTING, and the gun is not under your direct control, it must be unloaded (no ammo on the chamber(s) or in a mag inserted in the gun, and it must be locked in a container.

If you're STORING the gun must be in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant lock (trigger or cable lock). The lock is not acceptable for transport.

Massprudence indicates that the handgun not on your person be in a locked container, unloaded. That way, you're good for both storage and transport.


Now, whether, it smart to store a gun in an unoccupied vehicle......

I'm positive it was covered in my LTC class, but that was like 5 years ago and I have a hard enough time remembering yesterday...The point of my question was that sometimes, at work, ive "stored" my carry gun in one of those Bulldog safes. Sometimes id take the mag out and put it in my pocket, sometimes id unload the mag and stick it all in the safe and on a few occasions ive taken the mag out and placed it next to the gun (in the safe). I dont want to break the law and was looking for a refresher.

 

[MisterHappy]

Laws are laws

The reason I coined "Massprudence" is just for this sort of crap - Storage / Transport / Carry

If the gun is not under your control in a vehicle, unload and lock it up, This way, you're good whether transporting or storing. Mag and ammo can be in the same container as the gun, and you're still good.


It exceeds the storage law, but you're good if you put it in gear.

 

[GlockJock]

i carry in post offices, probably because i feel the risk of getting found out is miniscule compared to the benefit of safety.

This! (+1)
Carry everywhere every time, unless you're facing a walk thru a metal detector or wanding, etc. Carry in post offices, schools, anywhere and everywhere. Concealed means concealed. And I don't know about you but I, personally, steadfastly refuse to put myself into a situation where the very last thing I see on this planet is the muzzle of a gun, and I refuse to have my very last thought be "Dammit! I wish I HAD carried in this post office" - the one that is now under attack my some f*ckin Jihadist wannabe or some a*shole with a private grudge (after being told by the Postmaster that he has to work Christmas Eve instead of spending it with his family, etc. )

In this God-forsaken sh*thole of a state that treats legal citizens worse than it does a Gary Sampson, Ben LaGuer, et al? If you abide by EVERY single friggin RIDICULOUS law, rule, law, etc you might as well just melt your weapon down or sell it for scrap metal and carry a big stick (or is THAT also against some friggin CMR, etc? Actually, now that I think of it, it is. Maybe spitballs as your CCW?)

Point is, carry always. Car, not in car, etc. And who is going to "raid" your vehicle and discover your "illegally stored" weapon? If the car is stolen, there was never a firearm in there, right? You lost that later in the evening (cuz you were so rattled at having your car stolen earlier)...
The whole "well, yeah, but I don't wanna risk losing my LTC cuz of the law and.."

As opposed to losing your LIFE because der Fuhrer told you that you're not allowed to save yourself from the wingnut at Virginia Tech that day? Or the wingnut at (etc etc etc).

Eff the Massachusetts BULLSH*T.
If you have to stay here, forced to live here for various reasons (wife/job/business/can't afford a move/etc), you do NOT have to DIE here at the hands of some paroled criminal (Amy Lord) because some lunatic lawmakers tell you to "just leave your big, ugly, nasty, scary, self-defense weapon locked up securely at home" etc.

I'm NOT dying because some disgusting, despicable pig like a DeLeo or Feinstein says it's time for me to die. Concealed means concealed - even if it's "concealed" in your parked vehicle outside the Post Office or Boston Garden.

 

[dcmdon]

Fun sarcasm. Unload and put in a lock box is the safe bet. In MA anyway.

You don't need to unload it if:
1) you will be putting it on your person once you get in the car.
2) Its close enough to be considered under your direct control. Some will say that this is a grey area. So take this one with a grain of salt. But if you are putting it on your person when you get in the car, you absolutely do not need to unload it.

Don

 

[dcmdon]

This! (+1)
Carry everywhere every time, unless you're facing a walk thru a metal detector or wanding, etc. Carry in post offices, schools, anywhere and everywhere. Concealed means concealed. And I don't know about you but I, personally, steadfastly refuse to put myself into a situation where the very last thing I see on this planet is the muzzle of a gun, and I refuse to have my very last thought be "Dammit! I wish I HAD carried in this post office" - the one that is now under attack my some f*ckin Jihadist wannabe or some a*shole with a private grudge (after being told by the Postmaster that he has to work Christmas Eve instead of spending it with his family, etc. )

In this God-forsaken sh*thole of a state that treats legal citizens worse than it does a Gary Sampson, Ben LaGuer, et al? If you abide by EVERY single friggin RIDICULOUS law, rule, law, etc you might as well just melt your weapon down or sell it for scrap metal and carry a big stick (or is THAT also against some friggin CMR, etc? Actually, now that I think of it, it is. Maybe spitballs as your CCW?)

Point is, carry always. Car, not in car, etc. And who is going to "raid" your vehicle and discover your "illegally stored" weapon? If the car is stolen, there was never a firearm in there, right? You lost that later in the evening (cuz you were so rattled at having your car stolen earlier)...
The whole "well, yeah, but I don't wanna risk losing my LTC cuz of the law and.."

As opposed to losing your LIFE because der Fuhrer told you that you're not allowed to save yourself from the wingnut at Virginia Tech that day? Or the wingnut at (etc etc etc).

Eff the Massachusetts BULLSH*T.
If you have to stay here, forced to live here for various reasons (wife/job/business/can't afford a move/etc), you do NOT have to DIE here at the hands of some paroled criminal (Amy Lord) because some lunatic lawmakers tell you to "just leave your big, ugly, nasty, scary, self-defense weapon locked up securely at home" etc.

I'm NOT dying because some disgusting, despicable pig like a DeLeo or Feinstein says it's time for me to die. Concealed means concealed - even if it's "concealed" in your parked vehicle outside the Post Office or Boston Garden.

One of the best rants ever.

- - - Updated - - -

To the OP.

Let me challenge your premise. Why do you need to remove it at work? If its too big, get a smaller gun.

A mousegun in a pocket holster will never be "made".

Don