Survival finances?

[calsdad]

I don't think I have ever seen this addressed in this forum - but what if anything do people think about in relation to keeping themselves financially afloat during a SHTF situation? This would probably only apply to an extended bad period.

Do you just keep a ton of paper money on hand? How do you protect your investments from say a major depression? Is buying gold or silver a good idea? I know there are a lot of opinions on this subject - and it is a tough one to address. Storing up a ton of food to weather an extended bad spell is pretty straightforward - keeping your finances in order is much tougher.

 

[P-14]

Cash Is King

When upstate NY, VT, and NH had that ice storm in January 1998 that went all the way into Canada, people were without electricity in the winter for up to 3 weeks. Stores that had no power would not take credit cards because they couldn't verify the cards electronically.

Stores wanted cash for everything. And, without electricity, there were no ATMs working to give it to you.

 

[hikerlt]

paper money = fiat currency....especially the worthless dollar.

best buy now besides gold and silver is nickles....metal content is worth 135% of your cost from what I've seen posted...

Always good to have some cash on hand, but remember first the 3 B's - Beans, Bandaids, and Bullets...

ahh...here is the link....

http://www.survivalblog.com/2007/11/mass_inflation_aheadsave_your.html

 

[calsdad]

Maybe there are multiple levels to this.

1) Having enough cash on hand to weather a SHTF situation like the ice storm - things are screwed up - but they will get better. You just need enough cash on hand to get thru the bad time. Other than the usual economic condition you don't have to worry about your money or investments losing value

2) Long term economic decline. How do you survive thru that and preserve what you have? I have done some reading and have a basic understanding of how inflation essentially makes my savings worth less ( one reason why I buy ammo when I can - it will retain some value as a commodity if times are really tough - plus I can use if I need it).

Thanks for the survivalblog article - I hadn't heard of the nickels thing. I had read a few articles here and there about how it is now costing the govt. more to mint some coins than the coins are worth - I did not know about the earlier history though. Looks like I should start filling up ammo cans with nickels!.

So for long term wealth preservation what do you do? Hoard nickels? Buy gold and silver? Invest in overseas markets? Buy Euros? Rare coins? Do a little of each? I am familiar with the previous history of the govt confiscating gold - so that one could be risky depending on how bad things got.

 

[OnTheRoad]

First 2 things I did on 9/11: Filled the gas tanks and took a substantial amount of cash out of the bank. For the short term, especially if phone or data lines get compromised a credit card or ATM card is useless.

Complete decline of society? It won't happen overnight. Use your accrued wealth to buy long term hard commodities for the long run. Let the unwashed masses hoard cash and bling. When it's over and done with I'll stick with food, shelter, and defense. Barter will be every bit as valuable as precious metals. You can't eat silver.

 

[calsdad]

First 2 things I did on 9/11: Filled the gas tanks and took a substantial amount of cash out of the bank. For the short term, especially if phone or data lines get compromised a credit card or ATM card is useless.

Complete decline of society? It won't happen overnight. Use your accrued wealth to buy long term hard commodities for the long run. Let the unwashed masses hoard cash and bling. When it's over and done with I'll stick with food, shelter, and defense. Barter will be every bit as valuable as precious metals. You can't eat silver.

Agreed. My shelter is pretty well taken care of - if still in the midst of major renovation. Although the house has a mortgage - it is at an extremely good rate and I only have 10 years to go. Inflation in this circumstance is my friend. I have defense pretty well covered too - unfortunately my geographical location (in a suburb) might make it hard to actually make full use of it.

Food is the one thing that I don't tend to keep a lot of on hand - and this is mainly because of the typical man vs. wife thing - she doesnt understand why we should have say 6 months supply. I know this is common - I have read it on numerous other survival related sites. I keep working on it. That at least is one problem I could solve relatively quickly with a big shopping spree - given enough cash and warning if things were going bad.

Cash on hand for short term SHTF is also relatively easy - just have to have enough available to keep on hand.

I guess my biggest concern is the long term goal of preserving wealth during times of recession, inflation or even depression. Compared to most people I know I am pretty well prepared to make do with barter of services etc. during times like this. I have a workshop, tractor, tools, I know how to fix cars, do extensive home repair, my ammo supply is ok, etc. All of these are skills and supplies that could be used to barter with if needed.

This is just something I have become interested in because I keep reading all the doom and gloom economic reports about the falling dollar etc. Hard to know what is true I admit - but it pays to be prepared.

 

[Chris]

Food is easy. Buy a can of Survival food every so often and squirrel it away. I don't think the wife has any clue there are a dozen such cans in the basement. (^_^)

And when things really go bad, ammo is a good barter tool. If you do plan to squirrel away emergency cash, do it in smaller bills. Stores will only be able to change $20's for so long.... Save the larger denominations for fuel in a pinch.

If you can, shop for Indian (as in from India) gold pieces. Traditional Indian gold is as pure as it gets and can usually be sold by weight. Good bling for the Mrs now and good investment when the chips are down. That 3 oz. neck chain can turn into a surprising negotiating tool. (^_^)

Some say to use old coins, but that market is getting out of hand. And, counterfeit silver coins are a problem. Gold is pretty easy to determine by volume and weight.

Dried and canned foods are also a good idea. Better still, learn to can your own vegetables. It's not hard and can provide you with a source of income. (canning jars are found in flea markets all the time)

Other services like welding, soldering, sewing, and such are likely to be sought out. If you have the tools and skills, find a means to continue it when things go sour and stock up on supplies.

 

[JAMMIN]

I have $10 million Ameros hidden in an offshore account

 

[springer]

paper money = fiat currency....especially the worthless dollar.

best buy now besides gold and silver is nickles....metal content is worth 135% of your cost from what I've seen posted...

Always good to have some cash on hand, but remember first the 3 B's - Beans, Bandaids, and Bullets...

ahh...here is the link....

http://www.survivalblog.com/2007/11/mass_inflation_aheadsave_your.html

You forget the most important "B" BEER. Whenever the SHTF booze will be priceless.

 

[KMaurer]

Gold? Money? Off-shore accounts? If you're in a survival situation are you going to be willing to give up food, water or medical supplies you stored to provide for yourself and your family in exchange for something that only has any value to the extent that someone else will accept in in exchange for valuable supplies they stored to provide for themselves and their families?

Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert, speak about Y2K:

I've heard that many people are hoarding cash and food just in case civilization collapses. My strategy is to hoard guns and ammo so I can take the cash and food from the people who didn't do a good job thinking through the "collapse of society" concept.

Ken

 

[calsdad]

Food is easy. Buy a can of Survival food every so often and squirrel it away. I don't think the wife has any clue there are a dozen such cans in the basement. (^_^)

And when things really go bad, ammo is a good barter tool. If you do plan to squirrel away emergency cash, do it in smaller bills. Stores will only be able to change $20's for so long.... Save the larger denominations for fuel in a pinch.

If you can, shop for Indian (as in from India) gold pieces. Traditional Indian gold is as pure as it gets and can usually be sold by weight. Good bling for the Mrs now and good investment when the chips are down. That 3 oz. neck chain can turn into a surprising negotiating tool. (^_^)

Some say to use old coins, but that market is getting out of hand. And, counterfeit silver coins are a problem. Gold is pretty easy to determine by volume and weight.

Dried and canned foods are also a good idea. Better still, learn to can your own vegetables. It's not hard and can provide you with a source of income. (canning jars are found in flea markets all the time)

Other services like welding, soldering, sewing, and such are likely to be sought out. If you have the tools and skills, find a means to continue it when things go sour and stock up on supplies.

I didn't know about the Indian gold thing. That is a good tip. I know that ammo is potentially a good barter tool - so in response to this and Ken's post: I have already "invested" in an "appropriate" amount of ammunition - and the matching firearms to go with that ammunition, so I can either barter - or do what Scott Adams suggested.

As far as the wife vs. food store thing - I keep working on that, occasionally I have to do the food shopping and when I do I usually come home with like 20 cans of soup and some other bulk supplies to get her used to it. I intend on building a storage room in the basement and when I do that I will start to accumulate some supplies there.

I had thought about the trading skills and services thing too - I have a couple of welders, a tractor, extensive carpenters and automotive tools - and I know what to do with them. I have already traded these skills for stuff before - so I think I am pretty much all set in that dept. As far as fixing my own stuff I would be pretty much self sufficient in bad times - and seeing how completely useless the vast majority of people I have met are at handyman type stuff I figure I am at a distinct advantage in that department.

 

[MrsWildweasel]

I guess as far as women go and having things on hand I am different, but I also live out in the sticks, where a grocery store isn't around the corner.
We have also been getting back into canning, and having a garden, which we can and freeze for the winter. We can easily live off what I have in the cupboards and freezers for quite awhile. I am working on my ultimate goal of having enough food put up for at least a year.
Hubby never had to convince me to stock up. We just always have.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I didn't know about the Indian gold thing. That is a good tip.

Are you talking about Indian gold jewelery or gold coins? Gold jewelery is going to be very hard to get accepted as "pure" and if you have to sell a small quantity, you'll have to let it go at a discount - and the price premium over metal content is going to probably be higher than gold coin when you buy it. A better option is probably a recognizable gold coinage - American Eagles; Canadian Maple Leafs and South African Krugerands all come to mind. The buy/sell spread on bullion coin is only going to be a few points; you'll be lucky to get more than half your $ back when on a buy a retail, sell at wholesale, round trip on jewelery.

 

[dwarven1]

Food is easy. Buy a can of Survival food every so often and squirrel it away. I don't think the wife has any clue there are a dozen such cans in the basement. (^_^)

Is this a particular brand, or are you just referring to things like canned meat in general?

I think I'm going to start another thread on "how to start stocking food". I really have no idea what to stock that can be rotated into your normal food supply.

 

[MrsWildweasel]

Is this a particular brand, or are you just referring to things like canned meat in general?

I think I'm going to start another thread on "how to start stocking food". I really have no idea what to stock that can be rotated into your normal food supply.

Canned food in general. Store what you eat, and eat what you store.
Go to amazon.com there are some good books out there to give you some guidelines. One of the best I picked up was Making the Best of Basics by James Talmage Stevens.

 

[dwarven1]

Here's the new thread.

 

[fubar]

Back to Finances -

TEOTWAWKI may not be too far off. While some of are prepared to forage the wasteland with our Jeeps , AR15's , 3 day assault packs loaded down w/ water filters and magnesium fire starters ... and enjoy it .... I think it'll happen slower and less obviously.

We could be seeing the Perfect Storm of national and International events. What if we see the Baby Boomers vote in taxes that swamp us so they get their Social Security promises honored ? Hillary elected . Gun Bans and Green party tax fines for evil gasoline users , Local land taxes doubling , the potential Really Big Flood of Illegal Immigrants from Mexico , with the Lefties giving them big hugs and free housing on the tax dollar , and the actual value of the US dollar seems to be in a sorry state - how bad can it get ? ... and one or two unseen catastrophes - OPEC shutting us off in favor of China , an actual coordinated campaign of terrorism instead of the schmucks we see in the papers , Fill in the blanks however you see fit - ending with people caught in the strangle hold of no way to pay the Taxman , the Home heat company the landlord/mortgage/insurance man ... and still eat food.

Some of out parents and grandparents still don't put money in banks , save tinfoil and tin cans , and remember the refugee's from the Dust Bowl of the Great Depression. Have we learned anything from those days ?


I am trying to find ways to see potential problems in that light and do something about it. And still not become a paranoid recluse.

The Wife and I don't like our kitchen. We live in a 1770's wood house. We are moving the kitchen into a different room over the winter. ( I am a carpenter who does a lot of Kitchen remodeling ). It's a good idea for the building and will be a genuine improvement.

It'll put a fireplace in our kitchen , and move existing water lines into a much more contained area of the low cellar under me. Here's the Survival Forum/Finance connection :

My home was built originally with no indoor plumbing , no heat system except wood fires.
Moving the water lines & kitchen to this better location gives me the option of shutting down all the heat in the building except one room. Cutting my heating requirements to one room out of 7 - with a wood stove in that room. If fuel oil doubles or worse , I'll be okay. But I expect we'll be reading about people freezing to death.

My mortgage is close to being done - 10 years , really. But if necessary I could actually pay it off right now - forfeiting my savings in trade. ...

As a carpenter , my work - & tax burden - could see a shift from a paycheck to barter , or cash only : " What ? reported Income ? I have been out of work .... Sorry Mr. taxman. "
Of course I would never lie to the .gov in order to feed my family.

And the prohibitive cost of ammo led me to buy a Dillon 550 and I have been acquiring dies and components for every centerfire variety I use. For the savings of course , but it's nice to know I will be able to shoot recreationally in the event that the SHTF politically or socially ....

Anyhow. I am flexing my brain to plan and act along these lines .... hopefully all it'll be is a new kitchen , more skill at my job and less expensive ammo and more finely tuned attention to my savings accounts ..

 

[calsdad]

I guess as far as women go and having things on hand I am different, but I also live out in the sticks, where a grocery store isn't around the corner.
We have also been getting back into canning, and having a garden, which we can and freeze for the winter. We can easily live off what I have in the cupboards and freezers for quite awhile. I am working on my ultimate goal of having enough food put up for at least a year.
Hubby never had to convince me to stock up. We just always have.

I didn't really mean this as a commentary on women in general - but I have read the whole " I want to make preparations , but my wife thinks I am nuts and it is unnecessary" thing a number of times on different web sites. People who live in the country have a different perspective I think than those who live in the city or suburbia. Actually from my experiences when I was single I think women in general tend to keep less food on hand than men do. I remember when I was single I would do a full weeks worth of shopping or more at a time - I knew a few single women whose kitchens pretty much contained only enough food to feed the cat for a few days.

 

[Twigg]

This thread hes me thinking more about SHTF finances. Yeah, a supply of petty cash is one good idea and society will take some time to collapse completely but just the same, I'd like to start setting some precious metals by just in case.

Where can one buy gold chains by weight ? I've only found them advertised by the inch on the internet.

When I went looking for silver and gold coins things got even more confusing. First I'm not really interested in "Proof sets" or uncirculated and/or rare coins. I like the idea of bullion grade coinage.

I'm not interested in buying bags of nickels and trying to sell them for their metal content. Sounds complicated.

Again searching on the interweb produces lots of hucksterism and not much substance. I tried the U.S. Mint but all their silver coins and a lot of the gold are marked as "not available".

Can anybody recommend reputable coin dealer preferably in Ma. or at least in this part of the country ?

A trusted on-line dealer would be my second choice.

A shop or website you have personally used would be best, I've done the "Google" thing and am looking for personal recommendations from NES members.

You guys haven't steered me wrong yet.

 

[Migmojo]

I like the idea of saving nickels, just rolled abunch of coins up, maybe I'll put them aside.I bought some gold coins years ago while watching one of those sales shows on saturday afternoon. With the price of gold now I wish I had bought more.

 

[springer]

Can anybody recommend reputable coin dealer preferably in Ma. or at least in this part of the country ?

I buy mine at Bob's coins in Chelmsford.

 

[Twigg]

This thread needs a bump.

Anyone buying siliver bullion ?
Might not be of much use for short term emergencies but if things get really ugly...

Also considering the investment side of this as well. It might not appreciate very fast but it's not going to lose value either.

 

[doobie]

Anyone buying siliver bullion ?
Might not be of much use for short term emergencies but if things get really ugly...

Also considering the investment side of this as well. It might not appreciate very fast but it's not going to lose value either.

I have a few oz. of silver and am trying to buy about 2 oz a month. plus I plan on renting space in my house/property priced in silver...

I just feel like it has real value as compared to green backs which have no value other than what we say it's worth.

Nice thing about silver is that it has a very unique sound when you bounce it on a table or other surface.

 

[rapture]

I've never been a big believer in banks, so I tend to keep a lot of cash stored up in my safe. When I was a kid, I started collecting coins. The shop I went to also sold 1oz bars of silver for $4 per bar, so over the years, I've acquired quite a collection of silver bars and silver and gold coins as well as moderately priced silver and gold jewelry. I've always been quite handy, and have worked as a gas/diesel mechanic fixing anything from cars and trucks to small engines such as gas powered chain saws and the like. Being a mechanic and all around handyman, I've also acquired quite a set of tools, and the knowledge to use them. I've always believed that knowledge is a commodity. I'm a big fan of hard copies, so I tend to buy a lot of books, both new and used, and I print every e-book and military manual I download. I figure, if TSHF and power and communications become interrupted, people won't be able to just google instructions on how to fix a broken generator, and that's when my knowledge and expertise will become a huge commodity. Granted, people need to take their preparedness into their own hands. I just hope that what I may lack in my safety net, I can use either cash, precious metal or knowledge and expertise to barter for.

 

[Admin]

Always good to have some cash on hand, but remember first the 3 B's - Beans, Bandaids, and Bullets...

Just my .02

If society crumbles it will be barter and trade. Gold is gold. If I am trying to keep my family alive for the next 12 months I am not going to take gold in exchange for my ammo or food. Unless you want to look like Mr. T gold will do you no good.

 

[doobie]

Just my .02

If society crumbles it will be barter and trade. Gold is gold. If I am trying to keep my family alive for the next 12 months I am not going to take gold in exchange for my ammo or food. Unless you want to look like Mr. T gold will do you no good.

The future King of NH may only take gold

 

[dwarven1]

Just my .02

If society crumbles it will be barter and trade. Gold is gold. If I am trying to keep my family alive for the next 12 months I am not going to take gold in exchange for my ammo or food. Unless you want to look like Mr. T gold will do you no good.

Very true, Derek - you cannot eat gold. However, there will always be fools who think that a dense, highly ductile, very pretty metal is inherently worth something... and THAT is why you should have it on hand - to buy stuff with from people who will take it, hoping that it will be worth something "when things get back to normal". Some excellent reading about barter can be found in Pat Frank's novel Alas, Babylon.

 

[doobie]

Very true, Derek - you cannot eat gold. However, there will always be fools who think that a dense, highly ductile, very pretty metal is inherently worth something... and THAT is why you should have it on hand - to buy stuff with from people who will take it, hoping that it will be worth something "when things get back to normal". Some excellent reading about barter can be found in Pat Frank's novel Alas, Babylon.

The only gold I own is from heirloom jewlery. I hope to never have to find out what they are worth to someone else; well I guess except to get them appraised for insurance purposes.

 

[matt]

Just my .02

If society crumbles it will be barter and trade. Gold is gold. If I am trying to keep my family alive for the next 12 months I am not going to take gold in exchange for my ammo or food. Unless you want to look like Mr. T gold will do you no good.

I have to agree. At the point $$'s become worthless the things that will matter are food, fuel, and shelter (and the means to protect those assets). Things will turn to food for labor, with skilled manual labor topping the food chain.