SW 686 Plus light primer with strain screw all the way in

[ttk9801]

Hi,

When I got my SW 686+ new, I experienced light primer issues a lot. So I sent it back to SW and it got better. However I still get light primer quite often (I only shoot double action). Later I learned that you can tighten the strain screw in the font of the bottom of the grip. So I checked it, it is dead tight already.

I can send it back to SW again but I am curious what is the actual problem in terms of the hardware? When I peek into the cylinder sideway to see the firing pin, I see it only protrude a little bit (like 1 mm or less). Is that the problem?

Thank you for any comments.

 

[T-Unit]

Is this issue consistently there regardless of the ammo being used? First thing to question is the ammo, but if you've tried multiple brands you can rule out ammo as the root cause.

After that you'll want to start looking at the gun. 1mm sounds like enough depth, it's force not being transferred that could be the issue. Do the sides of the hammer look like they're dragging on the hammer slot? Is the transfer bar moving into position properly? You say this only happens on double action, so it could be that you need a heavier spring, of course that increases trigger pull weight.

 

[BTSDOG]

Check out this site, i believe they have some good vids....

Revolver Cylinder Shims Endshake Crane and Yoke Shims

TriggerShims Brand Manufactures End Shake Bearings / Cylinder and Yoke - Crane Shims for Colt, Ruger, Smith and Wesson, Taurus, Dan Wesson and other Revolvers

triggershims.com

 

[Retired-LEO]

Both responses above are what I would recommend checking and doing if necessary.

They both gave you very good advice!

 

[EddieZoom]

Shooting commercial or reloads ?

If u are a reloader, switch to Fed primers.

If this is a new gun and you haven't messed with it (springs, strain screw) then S&W needs to make it right...send it back.

 

[drgrant]

You shouldn’t need federals on anything that isn’t a tweaked out racegun. My 686-5 did this, I sent it to smith and they fixed it. I forget what they replaced….

 

[Knob Creek]

Does this happen in Single Action or Double Action? If in Double Action are you stacking the trigger?

 

[whatluck]

have you done a timing and lockup test?

 

[milktree]

I had that problem on mine, but only after I put in a low power hammer spring.

When I put the stock one back in the problem went away.

This sounds like a light hammer spring.

 

[meh]

Since you bought it new and it isn't really fixed, you're going to want to send it back so that they can make it right. Having said that, you might still check the lock up and end shake to see what's up.

End shake: the cylinder should not be able to move forwards and backwards appreciably.

The importance of endshake. – www.GrantCunningham.com

Lock up issues shouldn't cause light strikes, but I always check lock up on DA revolvers by trying to advance the cylinder all the way around without dropping the hammer. Sometimes that's not going to happen, but when pulling the trigger slowly, you should at least be able to hear the locking lug drop in to the slot on the cylinder before the hammer falls. My son bought a new 686+ recently that failed this test on 2, maybe 3, out of the 7 charge holes. S&W fixed it.

 

[ttk9801]

@T-Unit @BTSDOG @Knob Creek @whatluck and all
Thanks to everyone who provided comments. I will look into the info.

The issue happens with all ammo factory ammo and my hand load. I use CCI primer in reloads. I think that I get more light primer with reloads. I will probably need to get a few boxes factory ammo and give them try.

The cylinder is kind of tight, i.e., it does not move back-and-forth. When I sent it for repair to SW last time, I think they either scratched my cylinder or replaced my original cylinder with a new "used" one because there are many scratch markings on the cylinder.

I do not shoot single action so I do not know if it happens in single action. I can try next time in the range. (There are a few reasons that I do not shoot single action: (1) I do not enjoy the extra step in shooting (2) there is no time for putting the gun in single action when needed in emergency situations (3) I wanted to get comfortable with double action, which I did.).

I have not done a timing or lockup test.

I never changed anything of my gun.

Revolvers are supposed to be reliable and ready to go any time. That is what I learned before I got the revolver. My other handguns can take any crapy ammo (including hand loads) with no issue. I am disappointed at revolver and SW. It defeated all my believes. This solid piece of metal should just work, as they say, but it does not sometimes.

I remember that one of the motivations of purchasing this gun is to leave it on my night stand. I never allowed it due to the reasons that you all already know.

Thanks again!

 

[meh]

The issue happens with all ammo factory ammo and my hand load. I use CCI primer in reloads. I think that I get more light primer with reloads.

FWIW, I wouldn't give much thought to what ammo you're using. I think it was Dr. Grant who pointed out above that it's not relevant unless your gun is tuned to have a lighter trigger pull than stock. Any stock revolver should set off any loads as long as the primers are properly seated. I mean possibly you could have some problems if the primers aren't fully seated. If they aren't fully seated, the hammer strike is cushioned a bit by knocking them into place. Conversely, sometimes mashing them in might move primer compound out from under the anvil, but then that's a dud that doesn't go off no matter how many times you strike it. Having said that, a good reason to buy factory loads and demonstrate the problem with them is so you can focus on them when you communicate the problem to S&W. Reloads are a distraction you don't need in the conversation.

 

[ttk9801]

FWIW, I wouldn't give much thought to what ammo you're using. I think it was Dr. Grant who pointed out above that it's not relevant unless your gun is tuned to have a lighter trigger pull than stock. Any stock revolver should set off any loads as long as the primers are properly seated. I mean possibly you could have some problems if the primers aren't fully seated. If they aren't fully seated, the hammer strike is cushioned a bit by knocking them into place. Conversely, sometimes mashing them in might move primer compound out from under the anvil, but then that's a dud that doesn't go off no matter how many times you strike it. Having said that, a good reason to buy factory loads and demonstrate the problem with them is so you can focus on them when you communicate the problem to S&W. Reloads are a distraction you don't need in the conversation.

Excellent comment, will do as suggested! Thanks

 

[BTSDOG]

you say the cylinder does not move back and forth ? S&W may have shimmed it too far foward and the primers end up being a tad too far away from the firing pin. There should be a vid on that shim site that shows how to measure the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone. You can actually shim the cylinder a little further back so that the primers end up a little closer to the firing pin. Also, is this a newer gun where the firing pin floats in the frame with a spring ? Your firing pin channel could be gunked up with munge from over the years, or the spring might be a little too stiff. Wolfe Springs makes a firing pin kit with a slightly longer pin and a reduced spring. This may help your problem......

 

[ttk9801]

you say the cylinder does not move back and forth ? S&W may have shimmed it too far foward and the primers end up being a tad too far away from the firing pin. There should be a vid on that shim site that shows how to measure the gap between the cylinder and the forcing cone. You can actually shim the cylinder a little further back so that the primers end up a little closer to the firing pin. Also, is this a newer gun where the firing pin floats in the frame with a spring ? Your firing pin channel could be gunked up with munge from over the years, or the spring might be a little too stiff. Wolfe Springs makes a firing pin kit with a slightly longer pin and a reduced spring. This may help your problem......

Thank you for the info. I do modify my guns but only to those that work but I want better performance. I am hesitate to "repair" any new guns that do not function as designed because (1) there may be a risk taking matters into my own hands (2) I paid for its basic functions. That said, I am very curious about the reason for the malfunction so that I can learn things. We investigate all proposed ideas. Thanks

 

[Amputee Marksman]

My biggest bitch about S&W is the last 2 firearms I sent in for repair they never told me what they did. It used to be S&W would return a slip that basically indicated what parts were replaced and any adjustments etc. Now it seems they don't which makes it hard to figure out how to proceed when the repairs do not fix the problem.

 

[Retired-LEO]

Hi,

When I got my SW 686+ new, I experienced light primer issues a lot. So I sent it back to SW and it got better. However I still get light primer quite often (I only shoot double action). Later I learned that you can tighten the strain screw in the font of the bottom of the grip. So I checked it, it is dead tight already.

I can send it back to SW again but I am curious what is the actual problem in terms of the hardware? When I peek into the cylinder sideway to see the firing pin, I see it only protrude a little bit (like 1 mm or less). Is that the problem?

Thank you for any comments.

Another option is to replace the firing pin with an APEX Tactical Firing Pin for $20 (including shipping)

It's very easy to do in under 15 minutes. The APEX filing pin is a hair longer, improving the strike.

It won't modify the trigger or pull weight; it just gives an improved trigger strike.