The AR15

[Golddiggie]

10+ years ago the best way to get an AR with exactly what you wanted was to at least build/assemble the upper yourself. Now, you can often customize an upper via the seller's site to be "close enough".

I bought my first AR complete from store. Over the years I've replaced a good number of parts on it. I've also built full ARs over the years. Picking the lower I wanted, either factory or an 80, and either buying a complete upper or doing it myself.

I'm in the group of people that enjoys building them, as well as doing additional customization (such as Cerakote). IMO/IME it's not that difficult to get the important parts of high enough quality to build a solid AR yourself. Having really good tools to work with makes that process easier and better (IMO/IME). Of course there are some easy tricks to putting a lower together. There are enough videos, and threads/posts here going over all of that. IMO no need to buy a book for that. Well, unless you NEED a book to assemble/take care of your AR.

@tuna AR pistols are FUN!! I have both an AR15 (5.56 and 300blk uppers) and AR10 version currently. Running MAGAZINES (not clips ya mook ) through them can be a blast. Even more so with compensators on the barrels.

 

[Trafficdiver]

My AK can do all of that but it's got a bigger bang at the end.

 

[paul73]

a kit from PSA for about $350

there are many threads about it here, and generally it is not a great idea to have your first build to be one from psa or similar cheaper grade vendors.
i personally think they have improved lately, in last 3-4 years to become almost OK, but psa, bear creek etc manufacturers still can deliver you a lemon, and to deal with it on your very first build may become overwhelming, especially if it goes on a non-matching lower.

great it worked out well for you. now it`s time to get a better one, like cmmg dissent or other buffer-tube-less design to see how cool is that.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

Nobody in any sane frame of mind is going to go 9000-10,000 rounds with ANY AR without cleaning and lubing it.

I find these "torture tests" to be more than offensive.

People usually buy whatever tier gun they can afford and with today's modern machining, the vast majority of those ARs will perform more than adequately for any given circumstance.

I'd rather have 10 "poverty tier" rifles for the same money than 2-3 Gucci (overpaid advertisement) guns, any day of the week.

As I've stated before, "Quantity has a Quality all its own"

Agreed as I mentioned when I responded to @paul73 post

These torture tests are basically showing people that these rifles run, so for the idiots that feel they need to buy a Gucci gun because it will be more reliable than most other mid grade builds these videos debunk that.

I too would rather have 5 PSA rifles than only one Noveske or another overpriced Gay rifle nonsense but to each their own

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

My AK can do all of that but it's got a bigger bang at the end.

AK's are great if you don't mind dealing with the retarded way to mount an optic and the weight

 

[paul73]

Agreed as I mentioned when I responded to @paul73 post

These torture tests are basically showing people that these rifles run, so for the idiots that feel they need to buy a Gucci gun because it will be more reliable than most other mid grade builds these videos debunk that.

I too would rather have 5 PSA rifles than only one Noveske or another overpriced Gay rifle nonsense but to each their own

yeah, but a lot of such youtubers form completely wrong expectations. well, whatever.

noveske is even less evil, the ultimate BS would be sig and their bs products that go for $xK prices and, well, are severely underwhelming inside.
but, people will still pay like $2K+ for shit like m400 and then will expect it to performs some kind of a miracle that it will, of course, not.

 

[Uzi2]

there are many threads about it here, and generally it is not a great idea to have your first build to be one from psa or similar cheaper grade vendors.
i personally think they have improved lately, in last 3-4 years to become almost OK, but psa, bear creek etc manufacturers still can deliver you a lemon, and to deal with it on your very first build may become overwhelming, especially if it goes on a non-matching lower.

great it worked out well for you. now it`s time to get a better one, like cmmg dissent or other buffer-tube-less design to see how cool is that.

Oh PLEEEEASE!!!

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

yeah, but a lot of such youtubers form completely wrong expectations. well, whatever.

noveske is even less evil, the ultimate BS would be sig and their bs products that go for $xK prices and, well, are severely underwhelming inside.
but, people will still pay like $2K+ for shit like m400 and then will expect it to performs some kind of a miracle that it will, of course, not.

I've never bought a Sig AR, but I've heard the same underwhelming things about them but from the guys I know that have them they work ok.

Expectations should be what they are, a fairly accurate but reliable shooter under normal circumstances

A lot of new AR owners don't know shit and just fire away and put it away for a year then bring it out again without lubing it up

Freezing it or burying it in sand or repeatedly dropping it on a hard surface can mess up any rifle no matter how much it costs.

Rob Ski does all sorts of gay shit to rifles and stamps them a failure if they don't have a hiccup before 5k rounds

 

[Trafficdiver]

AK's are great if you don't mind dealing with the retarded way to mount an optic and the weight

Optic? What's that?

As for the weight, I agree. I'll be terribly tired looting my enemies after stopping them from being my enemies.

 

[drgrant]

I too would rather have 5 PSA rifles than only one Noveske or another overpriced Gay rifle nonsense but to each their own

That's never how the math actually works though. EG- nobody actually does that. Like I've not met a gucci level owner that only had one gun. And more often than not those kinds of guys will have multiples of mid and high end shit or a mix of all tiers.

 

[Uzi2]

That's never how the math actually works though. EG- nobody actually does that. Like I've not met a gucci level owner that only had one gun. And more often than not those kinds of guys will have multiples of mid and high end shit or a mix of all tiers.

Maybe so, but they'll never say that their low, or mid tier rifles perform just like their Gucci guns......it's beyond their capacity to be honest about it. They thrive on the "brag".

 

[drgrant]

Maybe so, but they'll never say that their low, or mid tier rifles perform just like their Gucci guns......it's beyond their capacity to be honest about it. They thrive on the "brag".

Actually the ones that i know don't really give a shit about any of that. They bought them because that's what they wanted. Sometimes its literally that simple.

I find that most of the loudest are not shooting that much anyways. The manic collector weirdos in this region are off the chain. The noisiest skinflints and hi brow types are not actually shooting their shit that much.

 

[cockpitbob]

A good gunsmith is good at finding springs that went "ting" and silently landed elsewhere in the room. A great gunsmith never lets a spring get away.

 

[Mesatchornug]

This mediocre gun butcher has this on hand

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[Uzi2]

Actually none of the ones that i know don't really give a shit about any of that. They bought them because that's what they wanted. Sometimes its literally that simple.

I find that most of the loudest are not shooting that much anyways. The manic collector weirdos in this region are off the chain. The noisiest skinflints and hi brow types are not actually shooting their shit that much.

The manic collector weirdos in your region are more driven by each and every prohibitive law being passed on a regular basis than anything else.
I don't own any Gucci guns, but I could shoot a different mid every day of the month and not shoot the same one twice.

 

[LakeTrout]

These torture tests are basically showing people that these rifles run, so for the idiots that feel they need to buy a Gucci gun because it will be more reliable than most other mid grade builds these videos debunk that.

I agree with the point you’re making about reliability in those conditions. But I will say that the greater reliability argument of the Gucci guns is that the parts are of higher quality, better grade steel, better quality control, etc. so that they are less prone to failure due to parts breaking. Not better in terms of reliability due to sticking it in the mud. In fact, lower tolerance cheap guns are probably more reliable there.

 

[Golddiggie]

Optic? What's that?

As for the weight, I agree. I'll be terribly tired looting my enemies after stopping them from being my enemies.

How easily can you convert an AK from one caliber, barrel length, or really any other configuration to another? With the AR platform you can have one lower and dozens of different uppers in multiple calibers without any trouble. How about just changing out a barrel? Without things like a hydraulic press and cutting/drilling out pins?

The AK's are only now getting options for mounting optics, or other items that aren't crap. Then again, most of those aren't accurate enough to benefit from an optic.

 

[SHOCKNAWE]

That's never how the math actually works though. EG- nobody actually does that. Like I've not met a gucci level owner that only had one gun. And more often than not those kinds of guys will have multiples of mid and high end shit or a mix of all tiers.

Sure I can agree with this, I was just using that point as an example for the discussion.

I got some really nice builds that I don't "Need" and I got a pair of beaters that I run hard but work just as good.

 

[drgrant]

The manic collector weirdos in your region are more driven by each and every prohibitive law being passed on a regular basis than anything else.
I don't own any Gucci guns, but I could shoot a different mid every day of the month and not shoot the same one twice.

Sure there's some sewer level IQ retards that are in that category but that's not who im talking about. And it's not just an MA thing either. Or let me put it this way, these guys aren't like "Z0mgz Maur0n healey bweaaah" etc. They are people where I would have to stop them and I'm like just "buy what you want because even if I tell you the smart play you're not going to do it anyways. And you're going to stare at/pet the gun more than shoot it. " Actually that's probably just an archetype nationally but you tend to notice it more often if you sell guns in a region where people have money. The archetype also follows a few different ethnicities but I'm not going to get into that because it's way too perilous.

 

[Uzi2]

How easily can you convert an AK from one caliber, barrel length, or really any other configuration to another? With the AR platform you can have one lower and dozens of different uppers in multiple calibers without any trouble. How about just changing out a barrel? Without things like a hydraulic press and cutting/drilling out pins?

The AK's are only now getting options for mounting optics, or other items that aren't crap. Then again, most of those aren't accurate enough to benefit from an optic.

There's been millions put in a grave by non optic fitted AKs over the past 70 years.....which is the true reason for owning one in the long run.

 

[cockpitbob]

All this is one reason I delayed decades before getting into ARs. With a Remington 700, you're not changing barrels and options for stocks, triggers and scope mounts are limited. An AR is like Mr. Potato Head. Buy a stripped lower and suddenly you have thousands of options to decide from.

 

[Uzi2]

All this is one reason I delayed decades before getting into ARs. With a Remington 700, you're not changing barrels and options for stocks, triggers and scope mounts are limited. An AR is like Mr. Potato Head. Buy a stripped lower and suddenly you have thousands of options to decide from.

"Variety Is The Spice Of Life" as the saying goes.

Having interchangeable parts is highly beneficial in most any circumstance. Pull two pins, throw on another upper or change out a lower and back in action.

 

[PappyM3]

There's been millions put in a grave by non optic fitted AKs over the past 70 years.....which is the true reason for owning one in the long run.

If I lived in Burkina Faso or Moldova, I’d own an AK for that reason.

 

[Uzi2]

If I lived in Burkina Faso or Moldova, I’d own an AK for that reason.

Or Chicago or LA, Houston, or Oakland, St Louis, or NYC, or DC, or any other major city in the U.S.

 

[G4Y4HK]

Actually the ones that i know don't really give a shit about any of that. They bought them because that's what they wanted. Sometimes its literally that simple.

I find that most of the loudest are not shooting that much anyways. The manic collector weirdos in this region are off the chain. The noisiest skinflints and hi brow types are not actually shooting their shit that much.

I flinted (again) and got a radical upper that does 5 inch groups at 50 yards. At least it works reliably and slings lead. Good backup for close in work.

 

[Golddiggie]

Or Chicago or LA, Houston, or Oakland, St Louis, or NYC, or DC, or any other major city in the U.S.

Right, but 5.56/.223 is more common in THIS country than 7.62x39. When the blue helmets start taking over towns, you'll be able to [easily] resupply your ammo from them. If we lived in a country vulnerable to Russia (or China) then the ak calibers would be more desirable. Luckily, we don't.

Also, plenty have been given dirt naps with the AR calibers. Plus, you can (as you mentioned) two pins and turn that room clearing short barreled build into a sniper setup (20"+ barrel if you want) in moments. The only reason I'm getting a new lower for my 6.5 Grendel upper is because the lower for my PWS upper won't be shared (due to the way the PWS upper is held together).

BTW, those Sig ARs use a proprietary barrel nut on them. My former manager's son bought one a while back and then he decided to change out the Sig handguard (trapped too much heat) for a Midwest Industries model. The Sig tool was OOS everywhere. Since it was an unique pattern, none of my existing tools would fit. Ended up using Mongo (~20"+ pipe wrench) to remove the barrel nut.

For most ARs, you just need a way to hold the upper and/or barrel, in a vice in order to work on/assemble it. A good number of handguard makers now have barrel nuts with flats on them for standard wrenches (PSA uses a 1-1/8" wrench). It's gotten to the point that I'm not even using the AR armorer's wrench I bought over a decade ago. IMO, what you use to keep the upper in a vice is the most expensive tool you'll get for putting ARs together. Well, that can't be used for OTHER things at least. All my wrenches, except for the Midwest handguards, are general use tools.

BTW, have you guys seen the cost of even halfway decent ak's lately? Seriously, you can get a MUCH better AR for that much money. Gone are the days were ak's were less money for similar quality (IIRC). Just like the days of sub $100 SKS'.

 

[peterk123]

you do not have one? why?

I have two. I just never built one up.

 

[tuna]

@tuna AR pistols are FUN!! I have both an AR15 (5.56 and 300blk uppers) and AR10 version currently. Running MAGAZINES (not clips ya mook ) through them can be a blast. Even more so with compensators on the barrels.

Gotcha.
They're CLIPS. I use them to load my magazines. This is my favorite thing about the AR, is irritating people by properly using the word "clip". Almost as much fun as telling my wife I ordered a bunch of strippers for my 13 year old son and I.

 

[Golddiggie]

I have two. I just never built one up.

Only two??
You need at least more uppers there hoss. I have at least six uppers, with four lowers (currently, more lowers coming). I have another AR10 stripped upper that will eventually become completed. Just not anytime soon. Half the fun (for me at least) is figuring out WHAT I'm going to make/buy.

 

[Golddiggie]

Gotcha.
They're CLIPS. I use them to load my magazines. This is my favorite thing about the AR, is irritating people by properly using the word "clip". Almost as much fun as telling my wife I ordered a bunch of strippers for my 13 year old son and I.

View attachment 945987

Those are so pre-1970...
I had some of those, gave them away in a recent karma since I've never even put ammo on one of them. I just load up my magazines either at the range, or before going there. Not a one is 'pre-ban' and all are at least 20 round capacity. Some are even 40+ along with a D60. Since you're in NH, I hope you have some good capacity magazines.
I'm also typically not in such a rush that I feel the NEED to rapid load the magazines with rounds. I have enough of them on hand that I could load up pretty much as many rounds as I plan to shoot that session before heading out.