MSant
NES Member
and if you leave with it, it becomes a carry onLet it sit for a while and it becomes carrion. Yummy. Jack.
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and if you leave with it, it becomes a carry onLet it sit for a while and it becomes carrion. Yummy. Jack.
Yes, MA specifically excludes deadly force for property crimes. Also, in 1985 the Supreme Court found in Tennessee v. Garner that an officer may not use deadly force when pursuing a fleeing suspect "unless the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.” Since then I believe most states that didn’t already prohibit citizens firing on fleeing felons have extended the ruling in Tennessee v. Garner to include citizens performing a citizens arrest. In this respect I think Texas is an outlier.I don’t know about Texas but in MA the answer is unequivocally no. You cannot shoot a fleeing thief. He is fleeing and under normal circumstances poses no threat of grievous bodily harm to you and using lethal force against him makes you the aggressor. You cannot deadly force to protect or retrieve stolen property.
Yeah, retreat to where you keep your guns.I was talking to a guy a couple weeks back about guns. He said you have to retreat in your own house. I told him that was wrong and got the old “it’s not wrong. The guy that taught my safety course is a retired trooper and he said you have to retreat.”
ok dude, do whatever you want.
No, that comes before. Everyone should be prepared for what happens after before anything happens.Yep, that comes after the threat is neutralized, when thoughts turn to drop pieces vs remote burial options.
Horrible advise.I don't really see why it's so difficult. In a home invasion sort of situation, it's literally your word against a dead attempted murderer. Why anyone ever says something other than a variation on "I was in fear of my life. I did not feel I could get away without being killed due to my bad knee (insert literally any random excuse here), boggles my mind. "Yeah that submitch wanted my flat screen. I blasted his face off!" just doesn't seem too smart, I don't care what state you're in.
Read it again.Texas penal code:
My reading of this is that trespass during the nighttime is a justification for deadly force.
Better have that lawyer's number on a loved one's phone with instructions to call. LEOs are NOT going to let you keep your phone or probably even use it to call anyone. They will confiscate it to send it to their forensic people to find proof that you were pre-disposed to kill someone and use that info for an indictment and conviction.Bottom line, expect to be arrested in a valid self defense scenario where you have acted appropriately and within the law.
Have your selected criminal defense lawyer on your phone’s VIP contacts list and keep your mouth shut. If pressed for a statement indicate you will need to take some time to gather your thoughts and will provide a full statement in the near future after consulting with your attorney.
Best way to deal with it, BE the intruder.
Shit, shower and shave?Best way to deal with it is to follow the Triple-S rule.
Shit, shower and shave?
Better have that lawyer's number on a loved one's phone with instructions to call. LEOs are NOT going to let you keep your phone or probably even use it to call anyone. They will confiscate it to send it to their forensic people to find proof that you were pre-disposed to kill someone and use that info for an indictment and conviction.
Shoot.
Shovel.
Shut up.
And I'm not really kidding. Go look at the crime stats. Let's say somebody breaks into your home - ARMED and with full knowledge that there are people present there. It's an almost 100% certainty that person is not a newbie to crime. In fact they're more than likely already a hardened criminal - or - one of those kids who has been torturing cats since they were 5 years old and they're trying to graduate to humans.
Point here is: it's EXTREMELY unlikely if you pop the guy between the eyes - that you're killing some poor soul who was just trying to turn their life around.
So now let's say their body turns up in a shallow grave in the woods, half decomposed after floating in a river for a week, or the half coyote-eaten body is found by a hiker. As long as you removed the bullet - and nobody sees you hauling the body out of your house or dumping the body - and everybody in your family who was home at the time it happened can keep their friggin mouth shut........... when the cops find that body - and figure out who the corpse belongs to - which they will if the person is in the system - which he will be because of what I said above.......... it's also EXTREMELY unlikely any sort of resources will be expended to try and solve why said body is out in the woods.
I would also point out that in the age of Covid, Antifah, BLM, and the just general all-around shitshow our society has become , things are not "normal" any more. Resources are strained - police are under pressure...... dedicating time and money to figuring out why a douchebag met a douchebag's end is not something that will rise to the top of the list on where to spend precious budget dollars.
So in the end - your main determinant on whether or not you can "get away" with something like this are:
- your own conscience.
- the flapping gums of whoever else lives in the house with you and was present at the time it happened.
- your own ability to STFU
- the likelihood that anybody is going to report hearing a gunshot. I can tell you that in my sleepy suburban neighborhood I occasionally hear loud noises that just might be a gunshot. I don't bother to report it. I've used powder-charge nailsets - and no cop ever showed up at my house. This includes sometimes at later hours (I was inside). Also - pretty much everybody is in bed by 11pm. Shoot the guy ONCE inside the house - probably a 99% chance nobody is going to do a damn thing about that gun shot noise they *might* hear.
- your ability to dispose of the body without getting caught. This is probably the thing with the highest likelihood of getting your ass in trouble. Better really think it out.
As you can tell - I've actually thought this out.
Please don't break into my house.
OR, you could just move to a state with castle doctrine
And as Shakespeare said “Aye, there’s the rub”. Even living out in the country like I do (my nearest neighbor is 1/4 mile away) it’s amazing what the neighbors hear and ask questions about. You’re also assuming that old Laquecious was acting on his own and didn’t have a buddy outside that you didn’t see. Nope, as far as I’m concerned, the only time you should shoot is when you are truly in fear for your life. And in that case you won’t be worrying about the legal implications of your actions, you’ll just be trying to stay alive.And it will remain unknown. As long as everybody keeps their mouth shut.
And as Shakespeare said “Aye, there’s the rub”. Even living out in the country like I do (my nearest neighbor is 1/4 mile away) it’s amazing what the neighbors hear and ask questions about. You’re also assuming that old Laquecious was acting on his own and didn’t have a buddy outside that you didn’t see. Nope, as far as I’m concerned, the only time you should shoot is when you are truly in fear for your life. And in that case you won’t be worrying about the legal implications of your actions, you’ll just be trying to stay alive.
Megan types better than I do - beak or claws?I love it when company comes. If my daddy shot someone who came to visit, he'd have a lot of 'splanin to do. Megan.
Best post is here. Most of this thread is just fodder…Bottom line, expect to be arrested in a valid self defense scenario where you have acted appropriately and within the law.
Have your selected criminal defense lawyer on your phone’s VIP contacts list and keep your mouth shut. If pressed for a statement indicate you will need to take some time to gather your thoughts and will provide a full statement in the near future after consulting with your attorney.
Either or. I do have to remember to go into my cage and take a dump first and am limited to 10 minutes on the keyboard. Daddy is so afraid that I will shit on it, but somehow tends to forget that he ruined one himself by dumping a martini into it. Megan.Megan types better than I do - beak or claws?
At some point someone made me aware we have a "Castle Defense" LAW in MA.
Pt IV, Title II Chapter 278 section 8a
Then, someone else told me that was taken out of the law 18 - 24 months ago.
Considering the arresting powers of this recent "someone", I thought it prudent see if I could find change, nope, can't find it.
Any of you experts here heard of this?
LEOs are not lawyers. I know they do a tough job, but acknowledging errors is not a strong suit..Yeah, retreat to where you keep your guns.
Still sharp as a tack, Jack!
Old and Busted: Shoot/Shovel/Shut-UpBest way to deal with it is to follow the Triple-S rule.
Give the phone the Tom Brady treatment and your computers the Hillary treatment.Better have that lawyer's number on a loved one's phone with instructions to call. LEOs are NOT going to let you keep your phone or probably even use it to call anyone. They will confiscate it to send it to their forensic people to find proof that you were pre-disposed to kill someone and use that info for an indictment and conviction.
Wrong. Best advice is to STFU and say absolutely nothing. Only your name. Anything in addition to your name is f*cking stupid.I've taken too many firearms and hunting safety classes.
Best advice I've seen on this topic is that this is what you say to the responding officers:
"They forced me shoot to stop the threat."
And then you ask for your lawyer and STFU.
Give the phone the Tom Brady treatment and your computers the Hillary treatment.
what "you" forgot to report is that as he was fleeing he shouted he was going to get a gun and 3 buddies and come back and kill you and rape your wife and your dogI don’t know about Texas but in MA the answer is unequivocally no. You cannot shoot a fleeing thief. He is fleeing and under normal circumstances poses no threat of grievous bodily harm to you and using lethal force against him makes you the aggressor. You cannot deadly force to protect or retrieve stolen property.