Love Machine
NES Member
I tried the 165 grain bullet, white box Winchester. Seems to get rid of all the snappy 180gr issues, the gun is now really pleasant to shoot.
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Went shooting with the .40 Shield today
- Thread starter Love Machine
- Start date
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Love Machine
NES Member
But I can totally understand them. The 180gr bullets produced all of the OMG 40 experience, the 165 are like a totally different gun, on par with the 9mm.
Love Machine
NES Member
Dude, my right wrist is ****ed up. I can DISTINCTLY notice the snappiness.
I bought a 40 before I became addicted to the internet.....I never knew the 40 had so many problems.
I like my gun , Smith and Wesson 4013 tsw with Hogue grip....the internet ruined it for me.
If you guys want some nice loads with out the "snap" reload your own ammo you can do a nice heavy bullet with a light charge or a light bullet with a heavy charge.
I like my gun , Smith and Wesson 4013 tsw with Hogue grip....the internet ruined it for me.
If you guys want some nice loads with out the "snap" reload your own ammo you can do a nice heavy bullet with a light charge or a light bullet with a heavy charge.
dcmdon
NES Member
I have to grab at this red meat. I can't take it.
Nobody says .40s hurt their wrist. What (the smart ones of us anyway) we say is that the extra performance is not worth the extra recoil. Especially in small guns.
I shoot 1 to 2 times a week. I'm fairly good at dealing with recoil. I own and shoot a .460 XVR and .44 magnum on a regular basis. Recoil (within reason) doesn't bother me.
But . . and its a big but. When I compare how fast I can shoot a small 9mm with a comparable small .40. I am SOOOOO much faster and more accurate wit the 9mm that the choice is clear for me.
If you don't understand that defensive shooting means throwing as much lead down range as fast as possible, with reasonable accuracy, then you don't have a basis to compare. I don't care if you can "take" whatever caliber you like to shoot. What matters is how fast you can shoot it with reasonable accuracy.
I have been able to compare the G26 and G27 side by side. My split times with the 26 are nearly one half what they are with the 27.
On the extreme small end of the scale, the Kahr PM9 is a decent shooting little gun. The PM40 is miserable. There is a reason you see so many nearly new subcompact .40s on the used market.
On the large end, especially the Gen 4, the G22 is a very pleasant gun to shoot in .40. And can be shot very quickly.
I happen to own a Brazos limited gun. And it is great fun to shoot in .40. But it weighs about 40 ounces.
To the OP. I'm glad you like it. If it works for you, that's awesome.
Nobody says .40s hurt their wrist. What (the smart ones of us anyway) we say is that the extra performance is not worth the extra recoil. Especially in small guns.
I shoot 1 to 2 times a week. I'm fairly good at dealing with recoil. I own and shoot a .460 XVR and .44 magnum on a regular basis. Recoil (within reason) doesn't bother me.
But . . and its a big but. When I compare how fast I can shoot a small 9mm with a comparable small .40. I am SOOOOO much faster and more accurate wit the 9mm that the choice is clear for me.
If you don't understand that defensive shooting means throwing as much lead down range as fast as possible, with reasonable accuracy, then you don't have a basis to compare. I don't care if you can "take" whatever caliber you like to shoot. What matters is how fast you can shoot it with reasonable accuracy.
I have been able to compare the G26 and G27 side by side. My split times with the 26 are nearly one half what they are with the 27.
On the extreme small end of the scale, the Kahr PM9 is a decent shooting little gun. The PM40 is miserable. There is a reason you see so many nearly new subcompact .40s on the used market.
On the large end, especially the Gen 4, the G22 is a very pleasant gun to shoot in .40. And can be shot very quickly.
I happen to own a Brazos limited gun. And it is great fun to shoot in .40. But it weighs about 40 ounces.
To the OP. I'm glad you like it. If it works for you, that's awesome.
I understand that, and that may be true... at the range in a controlled situation.
I'd bet the farm if an attacker was attacking me and running at me at a distance of 20', i won't even have a chance to get the gun above my hip, and i'll probably be fending the perp off with the other hand, there is no possible way split times will mean anything when i wont even be able to pick up my front site, let alone barely get it above my hip. At that point it's a free for all and split times will be the same with any caliber.
Maybe in a different scenario like a shootout from a distance where we are both behind cover going back and forth with shots this may be a big help, but id say this scenario, while possible, would be very rare for a normal civilian to be engaged in. But yes, we should be prepared for everything i suppose.
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Love Machine
NES Member
I really have nothing more to add. With 165gr ammo my Shield is as controllable as my Glock 19.
dcmdon
NES Member
Have you ever shot a controlled course with a timer to compare? Not flaming, just asking. Did you do a quantitative comparison?
Don
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So based on this, you don't practice two handed defensive shooting?
Love Machine
NES Member
You know what, I should do that. If I get done with work early today, I'm gonna download a shot timer for my iPhone and take both guns out for a timed course.
dcmdon
NES Member
That's great. Real data is always good.
How similar are the guns? Are they both shields?
When you time your shots, don't count the time from the beeper to the first shot. Since that variable has nothing to do with recoil.
Get the split times between 1and2, 2/3, 3/4, etc.
Don
How similar are the guns? Are they both shields?
When you time your shots, don't count the time from the beeper to the first shot. Since that variable has nothing to do with recoil.
Get the split times between 1and2, 2/3, 3/4, etc.
Don
413guy
NES Member
did you put an apex trigger in yours? just curious Im thinkinging I'm gonna in mine. will have to try the 165 grain ammo and see if it doesn't feel nicer. thanks for posting your results.
Of course I do, along with 99.9% of the people here. But let's be honest here, it wouldn the the first time the gun owners population was led in the wrong direction when it comes to realit, maybe half the time people should be taught how to shoot from the hip? Plus, If i starting shooting from the hip I'm sure my club would have some negative things to say.
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Find a different club. If you can be sure all of your shots are ending up in the berm, through your intended target it shouldn't matter
fencer
NES Member
I hear what Don is saying about split times and control. But my goal is to not have to shoot twice.
This is one reason the .mil is looking to replace the M9 and also the reason that most in the .mil that get to choose a side arm avoid 9mm.
Like many of us, I own handguns in lots of different calibers. When shooting at targets that are not paper you can see, hear and feel the difference between 9mm and .40 cal.
I often carry a PM9 but when I can I would rather carry a .40 or a .45
This is one reason the .mil is looking to replace the M9 and also the reason that most in the .mil that get to choose a side arm avoid 9mm.
Like many of us, I own handguns in lots of different calibers. When shooting at targets that are not paper you can see, hear and feel the difference between 9mm and .40 cal.
I often carry a PM9 but when I can I would rather carry a .40 or a .45
The reason people hate .40 - http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/261187-Why-are-people-anti-40?
The .40 was invented backwards and many of us haven't found a good use for it. EC has a cool post about it if I could find it. There is nothing "wrong" with the round and even the most critical people on here will tell you that it is a good round even tho they hate it.
The .40 was invented backwards and many of us haven't found a good use for it. EC has a cool post about it if I could find it. There is nothing "wrong" with the round and even the most critical people on here will tell you that it is a good round even tho they hate it.
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I like my 40 and being the velocity nut that I am, my favorite load uses 135gr pills and full load of Longshot. Talk about A snappy load. I was getting over 1500 fps with my Sig, but I have not chrono'd my Shield.
Dean
Dean
In my experience competing with .45, .40 and 9mm, my 7 yard splits (all A hits) are the same with all three, between .15 to .18. How hard you grip the gun with your weak hand is the overwhelming factor that determines splits. If you can get to the point where you are pulling the trigger as fast as you possibly can with all good hits, then you've negated any caliber differences.
Love Machine
NES Member
I had David Santurri do a trigger job on it.
I've always believed a big part of the hate for .40 is mental, it's not necessarily performance or how it feels to shoot. If your bothered by something mentally it's natural to hate it, people need to get over their fears and man up.
jaypap
NES Member
I always believed a big part of the hate was a joke so there would always be ammo left on the shelf for me.
Oh by the way nothing good comes from a .40.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
fencer
NES Member
Nah ... I love my 229 in 40. I have a 9mm barrel for it that I hardly ever use.
I always believed a big part of the hate was a joke so there would always be ammo left on the shelf for me.
Oh by the way nothing good comes from a .40.
Kind of similar situation with the .270 Winchester; always seems to be on the ammo shelf, even during the worst darks days.
I wouldn't use it either, 9mm conversion barrels suck more than .40 does. The P229 is also a decent platform for the .40. It was designed for that cartridge. I owned 2 of them in .40 at one time.
Most of it is because people are sick of seeing newbs getting swindled into sucking for a .40 by gun shop commando shitbirds who think its the next best thing to sliced bread.
-Mike
