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What is 'good shooting'?

weekendracer

weekendracer

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I got to shoot with 2 of the top ranked shooters in the country the other day. We did drills and worked on techniques they use to 'perfect' their trade. I'm pretty good with a pistol, these guys were crazy to watch shoot. The amount of brass in the air for a semi-auto pistol was inspiring to watch. When I can incorporate what they showed me, I'll be a happy shooter.

At the end of the day, the final drill was 5 shots, 5 seconds, 25 yards, 5 or 7 inch target (I forget) (5 inch target would really round out the drill though: 5, 5, 25, 5) from the holster. That seems to be 'the' test right now for 'good' shooting. I would have passed the drill with a 6 or 8 inch target, but I failed and had almost an entire second left. Back to the whole 'fast is fine, accuracy is final'.

Discuss.
 
weekendracer said:
I got to shoot with 2 of the top ranked shooters in the country the other day. We did drills and worked on techniques they use to 'perfect' their trade. I'm pretty good with a pistol, these guys were crazy to watch shoot. The amount of brass in the air for a semi-auto pistol was inspiring to watch. When I can incorporate what they showed me, I'll be a happy shooter.

At the end of the day, the final drill was 5 shots, 5 seconds, 25 yards, 5 or 7 inch target (I forget) (5 inch target would really round out the drill though: 5, 5, 25, 5) from the holster. That seems to be 'the' test right now for 'good' shooting. I would have passed the drill with a 6 or 8 inch target, but I failed and had almost an entire second left. Back to the whole 'fast is fine, accuracy is final'.

Discuss.
Click to expand...
You are absolutely correct when you say, "fast is fine, accuracy is final".
Doesn't matter how fast you're going, if you can't hit what you're trying to hit.
Speed will come naturally with experience, hit the damn target!
Sounds like a great experience though, to be in the company you were in.
 
looser38 said:
You are absolutely correct when you say, "fast is fine, accuracy is final".
Doesn't matter how fast you're going, if you can't hit what you're trying to hit.
Speed will come naturally with experience, hit the damn target!
Sounds like a great experience though, to be in the company you were in.
Click to expand...

With the caveat that there is “good enough” accuracy (dependent on range and target), when you can start on speeding up.
 
PappyM3 said:
With the caveat that there is “good enough” accuracy (dependent on range and target), when you can start on speeding up.
Click to expand...

Every round I fired would have been a 5 ring hit on a standard target. I blame the new pistol, give me my old USP and I probably could have done it. Still getting used to Glock trigger after 15 years of the USP.

edit: so yes, 'good enough' counts, but not for me that day :(.
 
I always kinda wonder this as well.

I'm pretty much basing it off youtube videos of people shooting, but some of those people outline steel targets seem big.
I know the smaller circle ones are probably more ideal.
 
I can't reconcile a time when I'll take a 25yd shot at another human with a pistol. Ergo, I'm not too worried about 5 shots in 25 seconds on that plate.

BUT, that type of PRACTICE translates to better close-up shooting.

So I'm 100% +1 on practicing it. It's like running one-hole drills at 7 yards. Although with those there is NO time limit.
 
Just curious, are those top ranked shooters using over the counter ammo or are they using special light loads to manage recoil for better follow-up shot placement?
 
Orion2k said:
Just curious, are those top ranked shooters using over the counter ammo or are they using special light loads to manage recoil for better follow-up shot placement?
Click to expand...

Same bullets I was shooting, Glock 47 with grip tape. I think it comes with a Glock match grade barrel as part of the package. Don't know if they have anything else done to their guns. Looking at the box, Winchester Ranger LE ammo, 147 grain. Maybe at competition they use different ammo, but not that day.
 
There are certainly classes of competition that will use far from stock guns and custom ammo that meets a minimum power factor standard. What exactly people use will depend on the event and rules for each division.

That said a good shooter (from an accuracy and speed perspective) is good because they practice. Top tier shooters put A LOT of lead downrange each year and they dry fire etc at home. If you want to be that level you have to love, live and breathe the hobby just like any other skill.
 
Dennis in MA said:
I can't reconcile a time when I'll take a 25yd shot at another human with a pistol. Ergo, I'm not too worried about 5 shots in 25 seconds on that plate.

BUT, that type of PRACTICE translates to better close-up shooting.

So I'm 100% +1 on practicing it. It's like running one-hole drills at 7 yards. Although with those there is NO time limit.
Click to expand...

Does it hurt to get gooder? :D
 
Cap said:
Lucky gunner has a pretty good video series on various drills and "par" times. Your drill reminded me of the 5x5 drill - 5" circle, 5 yards, 5 shots, 5 seconds, 5 times (6 times).


View: https://youtu.be/BCRkcse4WY0
Click to expand...


That drill is for 'competent' level, according to the video. The drill we shot was for filtering out people like me from people like them. Several of us passed the test. I'm still butthurt over it.

The point of my post is people asking 'what's good' for a 'group' or 'time'. It's the first time I've heard of this drill and I didn't cut it, so let's set the bar high for 'good'. If you can do the 5 at 25, you are hands down better than 'good' with a pistol.
 
Orion2k said:
Just curious, are those top ranked shooters using over the counter ammo or are they using special light loads to manage recoil for better follow-up shot placement?
Click to expand...
Many of the top shooters became that way by rising to the pointy part of the pyramid in USPSA, which means a minimum power factor of 170 (weigth in grains * FPT / 1000).

This is full power ammo in in a ParaOrd pistol:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_r-c2KEgz0


My ammo reached the pinnacle of shooting when it came in 5th (I think, not sure about the exact number) at the USPSA Nationals in 2011. I could not make it because of some religious activity in NY disrupted flight schedules, however, my ammo was pre-shipped since it exceed the 11lb airline limit. I told a friend who did make it "find my ammo and give it to someone whose ammo did not make it". It ended up with Travis who used it for the match.
 
Last edited:
I shoot in pits. If I can expediently unload a magazine into a 20 gallon barrel at 40 yards I am effective with that pistol. If I can generally do so out of only my left hand at 20 yards even better (am right handed). Outside of that that is purely marksmanship.
 
I think 5 shots into 5” circle at 25 yards is pretty darn good , hitting different 5” targets with in a time limit much better.
 
Always good to challenge yourself.
When Im dry firing and practicing a lot, I get pretty fast and accurate.
When I slack off, my skills erode.
Its a very perishable skill.
A slide mounted red dot made a difference for me when when I was practicing a lot.
I am also faster and more accurate with 9MM then .45ACP
My score on the Appleseed Patriot Pistol course was from highest to lowest:

P320 9MM with a Romeo 1 red dot. 469
P226 (Mk25) 9MM 440
P220 .45 ACP 360
Out of a possible 500
 
SJan said:
Who?
Click to expand...

If I could remember their names, they were on the BP pistol team. One was at some point top 5, the other was top 15 (edit at some recent point), I'm terrible with names. They said it was similar to IDPA or the top tier of IDPA, something like that.
 
My views on developing skills has changed as I get older. Good shooting to me now? I'll use various metrics designed by instructors like: Mike Pannone, Steve Gilchrest, Todd Green, and Brandon Wright, or running USPSA classifiers to see where I'm landing. If I'm in the 80 to 90% on a classifier standard then I think thats 'good shooting'

I used to strive towards that top tier performance, but now I am more concerned with developing more skills in other areas. My pistol training has reached diminishing returns, and I feel like my time is better served putting towards areas of my life that are lacking. Could I pull off 5 rounds at 25 in 5 seconds? Probably pretty close, but i am not spending the time to get and extra second or two when I can spend that learning another skill or getting in shape.

I am firmly in the 'specialization is for insects' camp now.
 
A fun drill:

Set up a self-resetting mini-popper at the end of a 100 yard range
Line everyone up at 20 yards.
One shot each person; anyone who misses leaves the line.
Move the line back 10 yards and repeat in 10 yard increments until you are all the way back to the 100 yard line.
Goal is to make your final shot a hit from 100 yards.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
A fun drill:

Set up a self-resetting mini-popper at the end of a 100 yard range
Line everyone up at 20 yards.
One shot each person; anyone who misses leaves the line.
Move the line back 10 yards and repeat in 10 yard increments until you are all the way back to the 100 yard line.
Goal is to make your final shot a hit from 100 yards.
Click to expand...

I'd do the same thing with milk jugs. Shot at them until they were too far away then move them back closer, start over. The competition with someone else, you take turns, kinda like horse. Granted, that was in the desert with no one around for miles.
 

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