What's your favorite underappreciated or forgotten firearm?

Oh Jeeze...

HK P7
Webly Fosbery
Gyrojet
Mateba Unica 6
Dardick 1500 (or any of them)
HK P9
Boberg XR9/45
Kriss Vector
Nagant 1895
Savage Stevens half-semi-auto rifle


yea, Beretta Cougar/PX4 are pretty cool, but only a little bit weird.
 
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Oh Jeeze...

HK P7
Webly Fosbery
Gyrojet
Mateba Unica 6
Dardick
HK P9
Boberg XR9/45
Kriss Vector


yea, Beretta Cougar/PX4 are pretty cool, but only a little bit weird.
I feel like the P9 and the CZ 52 pistol share some similar lines, in a good way. The P9 has some of that early 90s rounded design, smoothing over the brutalist angles on the bloc 52.

I am a former Kriss Vector owner (10mm, white). It was wonderful to shoot, but the charging handle isn’t ambi and requires a short, firm pull. As a lefty, reaching over the top of the hand guard (or under) and pulling backward was awkward, and switching hands just to charge the gun felt weird.

If it had an ambi or swappable handle, I’d still have it.
 
I feel like the P9 and the CZ 52 pistol share some similar lines, in a good way. The P9 has some of that early 90s rounded design, smoothing over the brutalist angles on the bloc 52.

I am a former Kriss Vector owner (10mm, white). It was wonderful to shoot, but the charging handle isn’t ambi and requires a short, firm pull. As a lefty, reaching over the top of the hand guard (or under) and pulling backward was awkward, and switching hands just to charge the gun felt weird.

If it had an ambi or swappable handle, I’d still have it.

I think the P9 is awesome because it has a roller delayed blowback action and a weird-as-f*** combination cocker/decocker lever.

The CZ52 is on my list of "stuff to get" because it's roller locked (rather than roller delayed) and these differences make for "oh, that's interesting!"

Also, the CZ52 looks weird. It looks like it came out of cold war era soviet block country. I like that weird.
 
I think the Ruger P345 is my favorite under rated hand gun. They sometimes show up for under $400 in the classifieds.
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Great find—this is exactly what I was looking for from this thread! The cam-based recoil system allowing for polymer frame rails seems unique—everything else I can think of has some sort of metal integrated into its frame rails. Thanks for sharing, I’ll enjoy this rabbit hole.
 
I think the P9 is awesome because it has a roller delayed blowback action and a weird-as-f*** combination cocker/decocker lever.

The CZ52 is on my list of "stuff to get" because it's roller locked (rather than roller delayed) and these differences make for "oh, that's interesting!"

Also, the CZ52 looks weird. It looks like it came out of cold war era soviet block country. I like that weird.
Couldn’t agree more—I went to Czechia a few years ago and fell in love with the place. The design choices on the CZ 52 bring me back—I always keep an eye out for C&R eligible copies, plus a 9mm conversion barrel.
 
This is the Troy equivalent of the pump action rifle. And they take Ar mags.
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What a bummer this needs to exist for misguided compliance reasons - I feel like I saw one of these for sale at Precision Point Firearms in Woburn a few years back. Caught my eye, but not a buy.

I wonder how it shoots…
 
P90. Make the scifi and stargate jokes, but aside from the offset, the gun just works. 50 rounds with a transparent magazine in easy line of sight, yes please.
Worst gun I ever owned. You get peppered with powder when shooting it. Black dots on your face. Ammo is crazy expensive. Even to reload it. The ammo is for a very narrow problem. I lost money when I got rid of it.
 
Glock 32 in .357 Sig. I also have .40 cal and 9mm drop in barrels. like 3 guns in one
I know they'll probably never do it but I really want them to make a gen 5 - 32. It just sucks now that the ammo is so expensive I should have bought it all up during covid I bought a few thousand rounds because it was actually kind of cheap in relative terms but I'd like to have a hell of a lot more than that. .357 Sig is absolutely rape even at dealer cost in a lot of cases. Nice shooting cartridge though. It's like ++P++ 9mm. You feel it but the muzzle flip is way lower than 40 is.
 
I think the Ruger P345 is my favorite under rated hand gun. They sometimes show up for under $400 in the classifieds.
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The P345 wouldn't suck so much if it wasn't larded up with all the safety bullshit if they had made it more like the P95 DC it would make a lot more sense and it probably would have sold five times the amount of units. They should have sold it as a pro series. Same with the SR9C etc. I can't stomach the gay pride flag that comes up when the gun is loaded.

These guns were a great idea but just poorly executed from that standpoint. Thats why it basically failed commercially.
 
Rifle- Krag Jorgensen. I think people overlook it due to the weak bolt, but the .30-40 Krag is nothing to sneeze at. Compared to all our intermediate calibers, it smokes them, so it's not incapable, just people figure for what a bolt action can be, it should be more powerful than .30-40. I doubt most would ever use or need that extra power. In terms of use, I think the cartridge box is more intuitive than stripper clips and I've always liked a magazine disconnect on a bolt action. Oh, and from what I read the bolt having just one locking lug makes it extremely smooth to operate.

Maybe the Mauser was a better rifle, but the Krag was just fine.

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Pistol- Zastava Tokarev

The biggest drawback is the sights, they are just plain like a GI 1911 type basic and they don't hit to POA. Other than that issue (which is fixed with aftermarket sights) this Tokarev is the most modern incarnation of Fedor's design, which itself was largely influenced by the 1911. The 7.62x25 is super fast, capable of defeating soft armor, but also very effective with modern hollow points making for a flat shooting, flat carrying pistol capable of engaging armored and unarmored threats equally. Even in a world of 17 round mags, the power of the 7.62x25 more than makes up for that lack of capacity.

Now if only mags were more available...

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The P345 wouldn't suck so much if it wasn't larded up with all the safety bullshit if they had made it more like the P95 DC it would make a lot more sense and it probably would have sold five times the amount of units. They should have sold it as a pro series. Same with the SR9C etc. I can't stomach the gay pride flag that comes up when the gun is loaded.

These guns were a great idea but just poorly executed from that standpoint. Thats why it basically failed commercially.
JFC, just dremel the LCI down and STFU about it.
 
JFC, just dremel the LCI down and STFU about it.
That's stupid because then you have this thing that's stuck there flapping around and still collecting dirt. I'm trying to remember who it was but at some point there was some company that actually made an insert. That's not even the biggest problem. It's just the flag that tells you it sucks. There's no decock only version and there's no version that doesn't have a f***ing mag safety and it either as far as I know. And I know you can defeat the mag safety but it's still stupid to have to do all that shit to a gun that should just have been offered that way to begin with. It wouldn't have cost them a million dollars or something to make another SKU. They would have been able to pay for it with the amount of guns they would have sold had they done so.

Ruger does this over and over, although at least with some of the newer guns they got the right idea by offering multiple variants. At least they're not (usually) pulling a Kel Tec, where they have tons of great ideas that usually have like that one massive design flaw that ruins the whole thing. 🤣 Although the ruger american was basically a pile of shit ergonomically. I had ruger fanbois even rejecting that pile.
 
I know they'll probably never do it but I really want them to make a gen 5 - 32. It just sucks now that the ammo is so expensive I should have bought it all up during covid I bought a few thousand rounds because it was actually kind of cheap in relative terms but I'd like to have a hell of a lot more than that. .357 Sig is absolutely rape even at dealer cost in a lot of cases. Nice shooting cartridge though. It's like ++P++ 9mm. You feel it but the muzzle flip is way lower than 40 is.
Unlike the .40, the .357 Sig is dying a death as I don't know of any LE agencies that still use it. Because of that the ammo price is only going to climb ever higher and even tho they're just a barrel change of a .40 away most people are not going to bother to do that due to the ammo cost.

I am of the opinion that anyone who wants a high velocity 9mm that it's better than trying to hot rod 9mm +P++P+++P, but if that much power is actually required then 10mm beats the snot out of .357 Sig.

It's hard to say when a bottlenecked pistol caliber is a better choice. 5.7 is the rage now because of the low recoil and high capacity with some ability to defeat soft armor, but once you get around that and you study the effects on target with those projectiles it's a weak ass .22. .22 TCM ups the velocity even more, but is stuck in 1911s from the Philippians and has no support by the industry.

The two bottlenecks I see that have merits worth considering have been .32 NAA and 762 Tokarev. I already talked about the Tok, but .32 NAA is just an improvement over .32 and .380 ACP in every way, yet the industry didn't see its potential outside of a shitty NAA Crapdian. Any .380 can be converted into a .32 NAA, so it's not like it would have been all that difficult for them to make, just needd to get someone other than Hornady to make ammo.
 
That's stupid because then you have this thing that's stuck there flapping around and still collecting dirt. I'm trying to remember who it was but at some point there was some company that actually made an insert. That's not even the biggest problem. It's just the flag that tells you it sucks. There's no decock only version and there's no version that doesn't have a f***ing mag safety and it either as far as I know. And I know you can defeat the mag safety but it's still stupid to have to do all that shit to a gun that should just have been offered that way to begin with. It wouldn't have cost them a million dollars or something to make another SKU. They would have been able to pay for it with the amount of guns they would have sold had they done so.

Ruger does this over and over, although at least with some of the newer guns they got the right idea by offering multiple variants. At least they're not (usually) pulling a Kel Tec, where they have tons of great ideas that usually have like that one massive design flaw that ruins the whole thing. 🤣 Although the ruger american was basically a pile of shit ergonomically. I had ruger fanbois even rejecting that pile.
Crazy to think Ruger's most successful full size pistol design was the P series.

At some point Ruger is probably going to stop trying with the American and any super duty type full size pistol and just go all in with the Security Taurus G-Spot clones. It's when Ruger decides that they're not trying to make the next military sidearm or major police service pistol that they actually do a pretty bang up job.

I mean, I'm considering getting the Security 380 just to have a larger size .380 that's low recoil from the locked breech, so Ruger's probably going to get a sale from me with that.

Consider this: Ruger probably makes as many .380s as they do 9mm now. There's no market for the .380 in any capacity outside of civilian use, maybe as a backup gun for police, but Ruger keeps making them.

I'd rather see Ruger keep doing what it is in that regards than try (and fail) at being the next Sig or Glock.
 
Unlike the .40, the .357 Sig is dying a death as I don't know of any LE agencies that still use it. Because of that the ammo price is only going to climb ever higher and even tho they're just a barrel change of a .40 away most people are not going to bother to do that due to the ammo cost.

Outside of (some) feds and a handful of agencies here and there most didn't go for 357 sig. It basically was the air marshal round. 🤣

.40 is dying hard too. Even in LE. The only reason the ammo is still around is because the installed base of guns is gigantic. There are millions of the things around.

I am of the opinion that anyone who wants a high velocity 9mm that it's better than trying to hot rod 9mm +P++P+++P, but if that much power is actually required then 10mm beats the snot out of .357 Sig.

This is pure shitlogic because you can't make a 10 mm without having a widebody gun that's much heavier. The G32 is cross compatible with a 19 ergonomically. Nobody who likes 357 Sig is cross shopping it against the 10 mm that's absolute faggotry. I say that as someone who owns multiple G20s and has owned multiple G29s. Not the same. The guns are great but they are bricks. 357 sig also recoils differently.
 
Crazy to think Ruger's most successful full size pistol design was the P series.

At some point Ruger is probably going to stop trying with the American and any super duty type full size pistol and just go all in with the Security Taurus G-Spot clones. It's when Ruger decides that they're not trying to make the next military sidearm or major police service pistol that they actually do a pretty bang up job.

I mean, I'm considering getting the Security 380 just to have a larger size .380 that's low recoil from the locked breech, so Ruger's probably going to get a sale from me with that.

Consider this: Ruger probably makes as many .380s as they do 9mm now. There's no market for the .380 in any capacity outside of civilian use, maybe as a backup gun for police, but Ruger keeps making them.

I'd rather see Ruger keep doing what it is in that regards than try (and fail) at being the next Sig or Glock.
Ruger keeps making them because that's their primary market ....they don't (and likely won't) be able to sell shit to law enforcement so it would make sense that they're trying to sell to Joe/Jane average. This market craves cheap, sometimes weird shit. 380 provides low recoil. It's precisely the type of carry gun that can be sold to Joe Public's wife or elderly family members etc. Plus there's a dovetail there with jingoism- a lot of older gun buyers are all about the buy american thing, too. The other thing Ruger is good at is taking an idea that was poorly executed by somebody else and manufacturing it a lot better. The LCP series is the outcome of that.
 
To get back on topic though... I nominate the
Manhurin MR73. Probably the best DA revolvers ever made, outside of a Korth. It really sucks because years ago they were actually some cheaper used ones (like under a grand!!!) kicking around on GunBroker and I never bought one and all that's around now are the new imports from Beretta which are big money.....

The originals came in a variety of barrel lengths and configurations. I bet @frenchman has seen a few.

Most people deride French firearms but this is basically like the polar opposite of something like a chauchat....🤣 it's literally one of the best in class vs worse. The lockwork is clean and the guns are glock level durable for something as complex as a DA revolver is.


Old style (example)
00001_Revolver-Manurhin-MR73-Gendarmerie-3--.jpg

New import
20210525_141101.jpg
 
Outside of (some) feds and a handful of agencies here and there most didn't go for 357 sig. It basically was the air marshal round. 🤣

.40 is dying hard too. Even in LE. The only reason the ammo is still around is because the installed base of guns is gigantic. There are millions of the things around.
.40 is losing popularity in LE and IDK how popular it ever was for non-LE, but when the used .40's are $100 less next to used 9's, the average person who is buying their first gun is looking to spend as little as possible knowing they are going to shoot it little. Those .40s will sell along with a few boxes of ammo and the buyer will be happy they walk away paying less than they did for a 9mm and ammo because they're not gun people and don't know any better.

This is pure shitlogic because you can't make a 10 mm without having a widebody gun that's much heavier. The G32 is cross compatible with a 19 ergonomically. Nobody who likes 357 Sig is cross shopping it against the 10 mm that's absolute faggotry. I say that as someone who owns multiple G20s and has owned multiple G29s. Not the same. The guns are great but they are bricks. 357 sig also recoils differently.
This begs the question of what is it you are wanting from .357 Sig? You want it for a carry piece to run to the cigar store? A 9mm can do that just fine. You want it to go hiking in NH moose fukk and cum territory? 10mm or .45 is gonna be better for that.

There's almost no situation where .357 Sig becomes such a good choice it becomes worth paying triple what 9mm does and in the rare instances where .357 Sig actually is a superior choice to 9mm due to the extra power, that extra power pales in comparison to a larger caliber in a situation where carrying a larger gun is not an issue.
 
Runners up...

SW945... produced when S&W wasn't a joke at QC. Pick up an old SW945 and you might be impressed. It's basically a Twist on the 1911 it'll only failed commercially because of the 1911 existing. 🤣 that and Smith should have done a few things with the platform. I had one of the 4-in guns at one point and I sold it to a member here years ago hopefully he's still enjoying the thing.
Smith-and-Wesson-Model-945-Performance-Center-Cal-45-ACP_100985338_70986_159B49029030C3EE.jpeg
 
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