Which is a better house gun?

[vellnueve]

I don't think collapsible stocks are necessarily better. Collapsible stocks are best because they can be adjusted to suit an individual shooter - but in terms of manuverability they're not going to be better than a well-fit solid stock. All my shotguns have solid stocks and I don't see that changing.

i say shotgun if your lookin to make a big hole thats your gun. if you put in bird shot that takes care of any aiming issues

Birdshot at close range doesn't spread that much.

 

[whatluck]

I hear this a lot. I'm honestly curious about it rather than trying be an Internet d-bag . Do you know of any real world data that backs this up? I'm speaking of JHP handgun rounds compared to a 12 gauge inside a small room with normal drywall and wood stud walls. In a total missed shot I'm thinking you're screwed either way. With a through hit I would think that you'd remove enough energy from the shot to dramatically reduce any wall penetration.
I shy away from shotguns only from a lack of familiarity and the added challenge of maneuvering a long barrel into and through doorways. Not saying it isn't a solid choice, just not for me right now.

There's a web site dedicated to this very subject.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/

They test various ammunition vs drywall.

 

[appraiser]

I stand corrected. a fold over stock is even better IMHO.

and BTW the Boston cop that killed her kid walked away free as a bird and eventually got her job back

A Norfolk County grand jury has cleared a Boston Police officer in the freakish fatal shooting of her 15-year-old son, who was killed in their Norwood home in June when a bullet pierced a wall and struck him as he knelt beside his bed doing homework.

The grand jury returned a "no bill" Friday, according to documents on file in Norfolk Superior Court. In doing so, the grand jury ruled
that neither Boston Police Officer Sandra Harris nor Boston Police Detective Keith Turner, the companion with whom she was arguing just before the shooting, were criminally responsible for the death of Dwayne Harris.


http://masscases.com/cases/sjc/429/429mass14.html

 

[crazymjb]

I love my Knoxx stock as does everyone who tries my 870 with it.

Mike

 

[Old Glory]

This Remington 870 AIP Police Tactical and a SIG P220

[/IMG]

 

[drgrant]

unless you live alone, I am not a fan of handguns for close quarters defense in the home.

Handgun rounds penetrate walls and hit innocents on the other side
.

Not this canard again.

Sorry, but anything that is properly designed to kill a bad guy will also go through at least one wall. Plan accordingly, instead of coming up with bad solutions (eg, using birdshot and other inadequate ammo) to the problem.

-Mike

 

[whatluck]

Not this canard again.

Sorry, but anything that is properly designed to kill a bad guy will also go through at least one wall. Plan accordingly, instead of coming up with bad solutions (eg, using birdshot and other inadequate ammo) to the problem.

-Mike

According to Box O' Truth, anything that will put a person down will also go through 8-12 layers of drywall.

 

[dwarven1]

Max,
Best of your choices is the .45. Better would be a 20g. pump shotgun (for a person your size) loaded with O buck or OO buckshot. Ask yourself if you can focus well enough at 3am to aim, fire and hit your target with the pistol. The shotgun will give you a much bigger pattern & impact than a bullet .

I don't think it would be enough to be effective, Adam. Depending, of course, on the size of the home, I'd think that most shoots would be under 21 feet. Certainly any such shooting inside MY house would be!!

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot42.htm

This one was at 7 yards and the spread was about 9 inches.

Not sure how much good that spread is going to do. Not to mention the mess it's going to make of your home if you still miss. Nicole may be forgiving of shotgun damage but I'm not so sure MY wife would be!!

 

[TWtommers]

Not this canard again.

Sorry, but anything that is properly designed to kill a bad guy will also go through at least one wall. Plan accordingly, instead of coming up with bad solutions (eg, using birdshot and other inadequate ammo) to the problem.

-Mike

This is what makes sense to me.

Also, points for use of the word canard. Extra point for using it outside of aviation.

 

[atmay]

I have my Glock 22 (15+1, .40), my 870 (6+1, 12ga) w/ Surefire fore-end, and my AR (28, 5.56) adequately accessible. I also have a spare mag for the glock next to my flashlight, a 12rnd belt pouch hanging on the 870, and a 1mag belt pouch hanging off the AR.

In home or on the street, I'm in the capacity> "stopping power" camp when it comes to pistols. If I wasn't in MA, I'd have my XDm 9mm instead of the Glock.

 

[glostamon]

a 870 w/#4 buck and a HK USP9c w/jhp

 

[Acme.Armament]

I don't think it would be enough to be effective, Adam. Depending, of course, on the size of the home, I'd think that most shoots would be under 21 feet. Certainly any such shooting inside MY house would be!!

This one was at 7 yards and the spread was about 9 inches.

Not sure how much good that spread is going to do. Not to mention the mess it's going to make of your home if you still miss. Nicole may be forgiving of shotgun damage but I'm not so sure MY wife would be!!

9" spread is 20x wider than a .45 caliber bullet and it will have many more impact points and better chance of hitting the target. Nicole would rather have myself and Dad alive and well and have to patch a wall or two.

 

[Acme.Armament]

Hi Adam!
I had a 20 ga for a while, but I've downsized and now by biggest caliber is the .45. It sounds like the consensus is for it, with maybe a spare mag nearby.

I just took the 'Point vs Precision' class at Sig yesterday. They've got a nice range setup. It was fun - if you and Nicole ever consider it, I'd definitely recommend it.

Good for you on taking training.
Go with the 45 then and have a quality HP in it. Spare mag is good but may not be needed if your aim is good .

 

[Maxspeed]

Here's my choice.....

 

[MichaelJR]

9mm vs 45 is a dead issue with current ammunition. Ballistics wise, you can make 9mm just as effective as the 45 with the correct ammo, difference being you can have a 15 round mag as oppose to a single stack ancient artifact completely outdated 8 round magazine with a round that is just as effective as the smaller round.

Capacity + easier followup shots = no brainer.... the 9


However, this should be no substitute for a 12ga. The 9 (or 45 ehh) should simply be a quickly accessed means to get to/fight to your shotgun. Long gun first, and always (even if it's a shotgun and not a rifle)....in a house, shotgun is king.

 

[TWtommers]

9mm vs 45 is a dead issue with current ammunition. Ballistics wise, you can make 9mm just as effective as the 45 with the correct ammo, difference being you can have a 15 round mag as oppose to a single stack ancient artifact completely outdated 8 round magazine with a round that is just as effective as the smaller round.

Capacity + easier followup shots = no brainer.... the 9


However, this should be no substitute for a 12ga. The 9 (or 45 ehh) should simply be a quickly accessed means to get to/fight to your shotgun. Long gun first, and always (even if it's a shotgun and not a rifle)....in a house, shotgun is king.

Well, in my case, both my 45 and 9 are M&P and I'm in MA so it's 10+1 either way

 

[strangenh]

Well, in my case, both my 45 and 9 are M&P and I'm in MA so it's 10+1 either way

Nod. That's an important point. The big advantage of the 9mm is more shots. If you can't have that, I'd also run to a .45 ACP gun that can take 10+1. The number of 45s, revolvers, and compact guns that were sold a few years back in N.IL the month after Cook Co. passed its newest AWB (no grandfathering, towns need to explicitly opt out) was astounding by all reports.

 

[Tim94gt]

AR-15 and 30 rounds of 55gr hornady TAP.

Same here.

If I had to choose between your options. I'd go with the higher round count of the 9mm.

 

[MJM]

a lot of variables to think about if this is strictly going to be a "house gun". look at ballistics of the 9mm, .45, 12 gauge, 5.56 and their effects on dry wall/building materials. this is often overlooked in choosing a home defense weapon, but the last thing you want to do is send a magazine of whatever into a room that is occupied by others in the house. pistol calibers are good for "room clearing" but pose a significant danger of going through multiple walls. some suggest frangible for HD in pistols. the shotgun is probably the best bet for HD IMHO since accuracy is said to diminish under stress but its tough to search a house for loved ones with one even at 18.5 inches and penetration can still be an issue. Pros and Cons for everything. do your research and again as others have mentioned get what you can shoot well, feels comfortable and consider the above info too.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Has no one stated the effect of the sound of a shotgun action in a serious statement? Have we finally grown out of that?

 

[xtry51]

Has no one stated the effect of the sound of a shotgun action in a serious statement? Have we finally grown out of that?

Doubtful, but it is amazing it hasn't been brought up yet.

Between the two handguns I'd go with higher capacity 9mm as shooting at someone in the dark after waking up and full of adrenaline is going to effect your accuracy with a pistol.

I would also suggest going with the 12ga. I keep only deer slugs in mine because in the distances involved using 00 buck is meaningless. It's not going to expand in 15-20 feet. Also I WANT to be able to shoot through a wall if necessary. Criminals are smart enough to use cover too.

 

[MichaelJR]

Has no one stated the effect of the sound of a shotgun action in a serious statement? Have we finally grown out of that?

I can only speak for myself when I say that I grew out of it from the last time we had this conversation hahaha, however if I remember correctly, there were some others in that thread that may still be afflicted by this.

 

[meth0d]

Of the two pistols, I'd go for the 9mm for the greater capacity. A Mossberg 500 with Knoxx stock and 000 buck fills this roll for me, however.

 

[vellnueve]

I actually picked up some of the Winchester defensive ammo - 3 00 pellets and a 1 oz slug. Yeah, it sounds sort of iffy, but I'm pretty sure that it'll still put a few giant holes in any home intruder.

That said, I never want to have to test that.

 

[xtry51]

IThat said, I never want to have to test that.

+1

And face it anyone who takes a 00 or slug round, no matter where it hits, is going to be one hurting intruder.

 

[dwarven1]

9" spread is 20x wider than a .45 caliber bullet and it will have many more impact points and better chance of hitting the target. Nicole would rather have myself and Dad alive and well and have to patch a wall or two.

My point was that in most home defense scenarios, the distances were going to be shorter - in my home, I'd strongly doubt that I'd ever have a chance to shoot at a home invader from farther than about 10 or 12 feet away - and at that point you're down to like a 3-4" spread. You still gotta AIM!!!

as oppose to a single stack ancient artifact completely outdated 8 round magazine with a round that is just as effective as the smaller round.

Oh, no... you DIDN'T just start THAT holy war again!!

 

[ChevyGuy91]

as oppose to a single stack ancient artifact completely outdated 8 round magazine

I will take my chances with my ancient artifact and outdated 10 round mag.

That is, of course, if I don't have a more effective means at my disposal (AR).

 

[jkeeley1]

my beretta 9mm comes with me on the 15 foot trip to the safe to get the 12ga

 

[TY43215]

Max,
Best of your choices is the .45. Better would be a 20g. pump shotgun (for a person your size) loaded with O buck or OO buckshot. Ask yourself if you can focus well enough at 3am to aim, fire and hit your target with the pistol. The shotgun will give you a much bigger pattern & impact than a bullet .

Rem 870, first round rubber buck shot then it gets serious

 

[fencer]

My point was that in most home defense scenarios, the distances were going to be shorter - in my home, I'd strongly doubt that I'd ever have a chance to shoot at a home invader from farther than about 10 or 12 feet away - and at that point you're down to like a 3-4" spread. You still gotta AIM!!!

No you don't, because just sound of you racking your 12 ga. will be enough to strike fear into the heart of any intruder, causing him to run away without ever having to fire a shot!

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.