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wolf 223?
- Thread starter garyz
- Start date
Cheaper than Dirt ~$.26
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemDetail.aspx?sku=AMM-216
Natchez ~$.23
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=dzmc22355fmj&src=ba562
I purchased ammo from both....no problems with either
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemDetail.aspx?sku=AMM-216
Natchez ~$.23
http://www.natchezss.com/product.cfm?contentID=productDetail&prodID=dzmc22355fmj&src=ba562
I purchased ammo from both....no problems with either
damn.... I need to remind myself more often that I am dealing with an entire state of potential terrorists and homicidal maniacs, only hemmed in by fine state laws that limit thier ammo and how much they can put in thier guns.
It is a wonder Connecticut hasen't fallen into complete anarchy without such controls
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
It is a wonder Connecticut hasen't fallen into complete anarchy without such controls
Give it a few more minutes...
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
A few words on Wolf .223 ammo. When preparing for the Harvard Rifle Match I checked my Wolf .223 with a magnet to see if there was a steel penetrator in the bullet (devastating on steel plates and a no no for the match) and found that the bullet was attracted to the magnet. I then cut the bullet in half and found no penetrator; the bullet had a steel jacket with an extremely thin coat of plating.
This type of bullet is also extremely damaging on steel plates and not welcome at matches where they are used. What worries me is the thin plating on the steel jacket. I'm not sure it is sufficient to protect the bore and have given up on Wolf .223 ammo.
This type of bullet is also extremely damaging on steel plates and not welcome at matches where they are used. What worries me is the thin plating on the steel jacket. I'm not sure it is sufficient to protect the bore and have given up on Wolf .223 ammo.
yep. dont let anyone tell you otherwise, wolf .223 is not good, infact its evil.
ARs dont like to feed it, the mags dont like to feed it, and the bullets actualy feel bad for themselfs.
wolf 7.62x39 on the other hand is fine, as AKs will feed anything.
If you are having trouble feeding the FMJ Wolf in your AR there is a high probability it's not the ammos fault.
Would I use it in a carbine class? No. But if my rifle wouldn’t run it I wouldn’t use that in a carbine class either.
Is it dirty, underpowered and inaccurate? Yes.
Can it help you destroy paper on a Sunday afternoon after brunch cheaply while still not damaging your elitist ego? Yes.
Would I use it in a carbine class? No. But if my rifle wouldn’t run it I wouldn’t use that in a carbine class either.
Is it dirty, underpowered and inaccurate? Yes.
Can it help you destroy paper on a Sunday afternoon after brunch cheaply while still not damaging your elitist ego? Yes.
The old "I'll never shoot steel cases because........"
Yeah OK, the occasional person with a 'horror' story, but I'd think there are more people complaining about their lava lamp blowing up than their AR upper being destroyed because they shot, or cried, Wolf. (I can smell a few angry posts coming....) If I'm wrong, then please show me proof why I should not shoot steel through my Bushmaster because I want to know!
You guys should check out AR15.com and see what a few thousand people have to say about Russian ammo. I made a post about Wolf there so I'll copy it here:
I’ve shot thousands upon thousands of Wolf Black Box 55gr FMJ without a single issue in my various Bushmasters. My AK’s like Wolf too. Never an issue. I used to buy the stuff 2 cases at a time (case of 7.62 and a case of .223) before ammo prices went through the roof.
Yeah ok, it smells and is messy but I kind of got used to the sting in my nose and eventually have come to like it.
Be warned....for those Wolf haters and elitists out there, turn away……
I shake my head at some of the people here who gingerly take out their safe queen AR, wipe it with silicone and handle it like it was made of glass. There are 3 reasons someone buys an AR. 1) To have fun shooting, varminting, and/or killing zombies, 2) to do long range precision shooting for competition or fun, or 3) for tactical purposes (LEO, etc). If you fall into the first category, then be a man (or strong willed woman), and shoot the piss out of your gun like it was designed. Unless of course you spent more than $700 for your gun in which case you either got taken to the cleaners or you bought an overpriced fancy picky stuck up AR that only shoots perfect shiny brass. No offense to those people, but I am not among you. I WANT an AR with wear marks and dings. If you have the cash and the reason to shoot a $2500+ JP rifle then you can afford Match Grade ammo. But if you don’t, then shoot Wolf, Brown bear, etc and quit complaining, unless of course your gun really IS picky for some unbeknownst reason and cannot shoot lacquered cases. I feel bad for you.
I like Russian ammo. It’s cheap and it works. If you’re shooting over several hundred yards and demand perfect accuracy, then invest in Match Grade stuff. Regardless, realize that you can’t make 1” groups at 500 yards with a 16” M4 regardless of the ammo unless you can bend the laws of physics.
Wolf through my handguns is a different story. I have a Para that absolutely cannot cycle one round of Wolf. With the cost of small caliber rounds right now, I can still afford to shoot brass. However if it goes any higher, I may be going Commie.
With all that said, I don't mean to start a war or make enemies. I speak my mind. For the elitists among us, and you know who you are, I have nothing but respect for you. If you can afford to do what you do, then bully for you. If you don't like what I said above, that's fine. I'm sure we can agree on a lot of other topics.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Yeah OK, the occasional person with a 'horror' story, but I'd think there are more people complaining about their lava lamp blowing up than their AR upper being destroyed because they shot, or cried, Wolf. (I can smell a few angry posts coming....) If I'm wrong, then please show me proof why I should not shoot steel through my Bushmaster because I want to know!
You guys should check out AR15.com and see what a few thousand people have to say about Russian ammo. I made a post about Wolf there so I'll copy it here:
I’ve shot thousands upon thousands of Wolf Black Box 55gr FMJ without a single issue in my various Bushmasters. My AK’s like Wolf too. Never an issue. I used to buy the stuff 2 cases at a time (case of 7.62 and a case of .223) before ammo prices went through the roof.
Yeah ok, it smells and is messy but I kind of got used to the sting in my nose and eventually have come to like it.
Be warned....for those Wolf haters and elitists out there, turn away……
I shake my head at some of the people here who gingerly take out their safe queen AR, wipe it with silicone and handle it like it was made of glass. There are 3 reasons someone buys an AR. 1) To have fun shooting, varminting, and/or killing zombies, 2) to do long range precision shooting for competition or fun, or 3) for tactical purposes (LEO, etc). If you fall into the first category, then be a man (or strong willed woman), and shoot the piss out of your gun like it was designed. Unless of course you spent more than $700 for your gun in which case you either got taken to the cleaners or you bought an overpriced fancy picky stuck up AR that only shoots perfect shiny brass. No offense to those people, but I am not among you. I WANT an AR with wear marks and dings. If you have the cash and the reason to shoot a $2500+ JP rifle then you can afford Match Grade ammo. But if you don’t, then shoot Wolf, Brown bear, etc and quit complaining, unless of course your gun really IS picky for some unbeknownst reason and cannot shoot lacquered cases. I feel bad for you.
I like Russian ammo. It’s cheap and it works. If you’re shooting over several hundred yards and demand perfect accuracy, then invest in Match Grade stuff. Regardless, realize that you can’t make 1” groups at 500 yards with a 16” M4 regardless of the ammo unless you can bend the laws of physics.
Wolf through my handguns is a different story. I have a Para that absolutely cannot cycle one round of Wolf. With the cost of small caliber rounds right now, I can still afford to shoot brass. However if it goes any higher, I may be going Commie.
With all that said, I don't mean to start a war or make enemies. I speak my mind. For the elitists among us, and you know who you are, I have nothing but respect for you. If you can afford to do what you do, then bully for you. If you don't like what I said above, that's fine. I'm sure we can agree on a lot of other topics.
i hope im not included in the elitists category. i use my rifles very, very ruggedly. i hate wolf .223 for one reason, and thats it is ENDLESS with failure to feed and failure to eject in my bushmaster M4A3. maybe your rifle likes it, but mine hates it with a passion. if i have a 30 round magazine, i can expect 10+ stoppages while using that ammunition in my bushmaster.
i use privi and federal now in my rifle, and i have no stoppages that i can remember in the past 700ish rounds ive shot through it.
some guns like it, some guns refuse to fire it.
wolf 7.62x39 is great on the other hand.
Good post Rob.
A few years ago I shot some Russian steel cased stuff out of my Bushy DCM and it didn't like it.
I haven't tried Wolf in my M4orgery but I think it's more of a psychological thing with me. You know, "cheap" ammo in a nice rifle. I have no trouble feeding my AK with the stuff because it's just an AK but putting it in my M4 just didn't seem right. Now I am planning on getting some Wolf .223 for it because I don't want to burn up all my Winchester and Federal for messing around.
Money talks...
A few years ago I shot some Russian steel cased stuff out of my Bushy DCM and it didn't like it.
I haven't tried Wolf in my M4orgery but I think it's more of a psychological thing with me. You know, "cheap" ammo in a nice rifle. I have no trouble feeding my AK with the stuff because it's just an AK but putting it in my M4 just didn't seem right. Now I am planning on getting some Wolf .223 for it because I don't want to burn up all my Winchester and Federal for messing around.
Money talks...
Dench, yikes! That sounds like your gun has a serious case of McCarthyism. How in the world does it get along in the same safe with your AK? Maybe polish your already polished feedramp. The ejection issue is puzzling. I don't know. I'm not an armorer, but I play one on TV.
I must have hit a sweetspot in Bushmaster's manufacturing cycle because of the 3 uppers I own (M4A2, M4A3, & uh....complete brain fart. I forget the name, the 24" heavy barreled one), they all shoot steel without a hitch. My M4A2 being the most abused.
JonJ, thanks and I know what you mean. It's like dragging your uber-rare MA-compliant Gen 3 Glock 20 behind your car just to see how tough it is. Well....not exactly like that but you get my drift. And yeah, never said the stuff was great ammo. It just shoots; not always perfectly but it goes bang. I have a heavy stash of Federal that won't see the light of day for a long, long time. Or until I get back into target shooting.
Keep it coming people. Don't be afraid to admit you shoot steel.
I must have hit a sweetspot in Bushmaster's manufacturing cycle because of the 3 uppers I own (M4A2, M4A3, & uh....complete brain fart. I forget the name, the 24" heavy barreled one), they all shoot steel without a hitch. My M4A2 being the most abused.
JonJ, thanks and I know what you mean. It's like dragging your uber-rare MA-compliant Gen 3 Glock 20 behind your car just to see how tough it is. Well....not exactly like that but you get my drift. And yeah, never said the stuff was great ammo. It just shoots; not always perfectly but it goes bang. I have a heavy stash of Federal that won't see the light of day for a long, long time. Or until I get back into target shooting.
Keep it coming people. Don't be afraid to admit you shoot steel.
i dont think its a maintenance or upkeep issue on my part. the last time i shot wolf .223 i was with a friend who had the same M4A3 i had, and he also was having terrible problems. BillK was there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsUYnsYiJ28
thats a good laugh if you want to see how much my bushy loves wolf.
Oh certainly not a maintenance issue I'm sure. Guys on AR15 have always said it has to do with tight tolerances in the gun. I'm in manufacturing so I know all about tight tolerances.
Wikipedia has an interesting line in their article about Wolf - "The only disadvantage to using steel cases is that steel is not as "elastic" as brass, and therefore does not create such an efficient gas seal when a fire-arm is fired."
Based on that, maybe my uppers have a tighter chamber than yours or Bills and therefore yours do not cycle properly...with steel.
Wolf also has a line of brass cased M193 Ball ammo. I have some but have never fired it. I bought it, along with some other Wolf ammo, from linemen339 2 weeks ago.
That video is great...and terrible at the same time.
Wikipedia has an interesting line in their article about Wolf - "The only disadvantage to using steel cases is that steel is not as "elastic" as brass, and therefore does not create such an efficient gas seal when a fire-arm is fired."
Based on that, maybe my uppers have a tighter chamber than yours or Bills and therefore yours do not cycle properly...with steel.
Wolf also has a line of brass cased M193 Ball ammo. I have some but have never fired it. I bought it, along with some other Wolf ammo, from linemen339 2 weeks ago.
That video is great...and terrible at the same time.
I don't think it's necessarily fair to categorize people who choose not to shoot Wolf ammo as "elitists" or that somehow their rifles are safe queens. I don't shoot Wolf ammo and I'm neither an elitist, nor am I a keeper of safe queens. Folks who know me, know that I pour ammunition through all of my guns and folks who really, really know me, also know that I am far from anal retentive about keeping them squeaky clean.
For me, my dislike of Wolf ammo was an evolution. I had two near-catastrophic failures with early steel cased Wolf in both an HK-93 and a Colt AR-15 many moons ago. One needed a gunsmith to clear. I got stung and stayed stung - for a while anyway. A few years passed and I found myself in possession of boxes of .40 S&W, .45ACP and .22lr. First the .45ACP was so filthy that I recorded my first stoppages in my Colt 1911. The gun was so gunked up after 75 rounds that I had to put it away. I don't know if it was sealed with road tar or borsht. I turned my attention to my Glock22 and with some trepidation, let em rip. The gun never hiccuped, but man was that stuff dirty and easily the most inconsistent .40 S&W I have ever fired. My interpretation of a 15-round mag: Boom, Boom, bang, pop, pop, Boom, Boom, Boom, pop, bang, bang, Boom, pop, pop, Boom...So I decided to end with my Ruger Mark II. Granted, the LSA indoor exhaust system is not the greatest, but this was the first time I ever remember feeling like I was shooting in a fog...![[shocked]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/007.gif "Shocked [shocked]")
My shooting glasses were covered with speckles and the flash and smoke out of my Ruger was almost fun....
The last part of my anti-Wolf evolution came when I started to question just where my money was going. Those few boxes of ammo - not the thousands and thousands of rounds purchased by some, but those few boxes were directly or indirectly benefiting the Russian economy. Russia is anything but our friend. Those who think Russia is a free-market democracy are really just silly. I also pause and think about the stream of Russian produced ammunition that "finds it's way" to Iran and then onto the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan. Much like there is little I can do to stop the importation of all things China, (my house is full of them), I also cannot stem the tide of all things Russia. Hell, I have two Mosin Nagants in my safe right now - and they're no safe queens.... So I am guilty as well by default. What I can do however, is make as many choices as I can to not funnel my hard-earned into the Russian economy and buy as much of my ammunition from American or American friendly companies...The cost is worth it to me personally. I judge no one for their choices, but for me to send more money to Russia just to save a few bucks and shoot crappy ammo through my guns is just not something I choose to do....
For me, my dislike of Wolf ammo was an evolution. I had two near-catastrophic failures with early steel cased Wolf in both an HK-93 and a Colt AR-15 many moons ago. One needed a gunsmith to clear. I got stung and stayed stung - for a while anyway. A few years passed and I found myself in possession of boxes of .40 S&W, .45ACP and .22lr. First the .45ACP was so filthy that I recorded my first stoppages in my Colt 1911. The gun was so gunked up after 75 rounds that I had to put it away. I don't know if it was sealed with road tar or borsht. I turned my attention to my Glock22 and with some trepidation, let em rip. The gun never hiccuped, but man was that stuff dirty and easily the most inconsistent .40 S&W I have ever fired. My interpretation of a 15-round mag: Boom, Boom, bang, pop, pop, Boom, Boom, Boom, pop, bang, bang, Boom, pop, pop, Boom...So I decided to end with my Ruger Mark II. Granted, the LSA indoor exhaust system is not the greatest, but this was the first time I ever remember feeling like I was shooting in a fog...
My shooting glasses were covered with speckles and the flash and smoke out of my Ruger was almost fun....The last part of my anti-Wolf evolution came when I started to question just where my money was going. Those few boxes of ammo - not the thousands and thousands of rounds purchased by some, but those few boxes were directly or indirectly benefiting the Russian economy. Russia is anything but our friend. Those who think Russia is a free-market democracy are really just silly. I also pause and think about the stream of Russian produced ammunition that "finds it's way" to Iran and then onto the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan. Much like there is little I can do to stop the importation of all things China, (my house is full of them), I also cannot stem the tide of all things Russia. Hell, I have two Mosin Nagants in my safe right now - and they're no safe queens....
So I am guilty as well by default. What I can do however, is make as many choices as I can to not funnel my hard-earned into the Russian economy and buy as much of my ammunition from American or American friendly companies...The cost is worth it to me personally. I judge no one for their choices, but for me to send more money to Russia just to save a few bucks and shoot crappy ammo through my guns is just not something I choose to do....
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