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2011/1911's drop safe without Grip Safety?

nin7474

nin7474

Joined
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Sorry for the 2011/1911 NEWB question.
But are 2011's(1911) “drop safe” if it doesn't have a Grip Safety and Manual Safety on?
Getting a Atlas Ares for CCW and it only has a Manual Safety.
no Grip Safety
I plan to AIWB it “cocked and locked” and will be my first “SA, Hammer” Carry.
My main gun for current AIWB is a Striker Fire(P365).
 
walter62 said:
What led you to that specific gun for CCW?

There are a huge number of alternatives that might be better suited to the task
Click to expand...
Because I wanted a ATLAS and it’s a present for myself.
Decided on the ARES 4.25 Ported.
A “do it all”, CCW
Matt_SERE said:
Nice. Have you carried a comparable sized pistol with a cocked hammer in the AIWB position?
Click to expand...
No, that’s why I asked about how safe is it Carrying a 2011 “Cocked and Locked” with no Grip Safety.

The ARES is Commander Size which I believe is bit bigger than a P365 XL?
If not the same size as a P320 Compact?

Current AIWB is a P365 and P365XL.
So only Striker Fired.
 
If you're about to drop 7K on an Atlas, you should consider doing more pre-purchase
research.

Use this tool and substitute a similar size 1911/2011. The one I chose for this
compare is actually *smaller* than an 4.25" barrel

www.handgunhero.com

Sig Sauer P365 vs Dan Wesson TCP size comparison | Handgun Hero

Compare the dimensions and specs of Sig Sauer P365 and Dan Wesson TCP
www.handgunhero.com www.handgunhero.com

My opinion: you're making a bad choice here for a number of reasons. I'd hate
to see you discover that *after* you spend that much.

Take a look at:

Double Stack Handguns - Wilson Combat

Wilson Combat has been the innovator in custom pistols, long guns, and accessories since 1977. Home of the Wilson Combat 1911, EDC X9, WCP320, and more!
wilsoncombat.com wilsoncombat.com

and remember that if you live in Massachusetts, you can only have 10 rounds.
 
Last edited:
walter62 said:
If you're about to drop 7K on an Atlas, you should consider doing more pre-purchase
research.
Click to expand...
Then when you are done your research, spend $9.5K on an Infinity [rofl] If you want small and lightweight for carry, you can order a Tiki in Titanium. I'm not mentioning the price, since you can't afford it if you have to ask.

As to drop safety - 1911s with a firing pin or Schwarz safety are indeed prone to discharge if dropped or sucked into an MRI machine. One of the really big name manufacturers was able to discharge primed cases with a 3ft drop onto concrete with a standard firing pin and spring. There are work-arounds that enable such guns to pass drop test requirements, but they involve things like a lightweight titanium firing pin and extra power firing pin spring - which are still not in the same league as a mechanical interlock.

- this was a 1911 with the firing pin block

www.forbes.com

Lawyer Dies After Shot By His Own Concealed Gun Triggered By MRI Scanner

The lawyer allegedly brought in a concealed weapon even though he was asked to remove all metallic objects before entering the room with a magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) machine.
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
50wt said:
Preban mags are available if he doesnt qualify under an exemption.
Click to expand...
IF you can find anyone willing to part with any quality pre-ban 2011/DS1911 mags, you'll (at the very least) want to swap out the internal parts. From what I've been reading about the newer magazines, those are what you want. Especially with increased reliability and feed performance those newer mags offer. Even Atlas points this out on their magazine listings. They do offer 10 round magazines for people living in nanny states (poor sods).

Some years back I sold off some STI 45ACP standard (over 10) capacity magazines since I didn't need them. IIRC, they went to someone in the PRM since they were pre-ban magazines (bought in the mid 90's as such).

Personally, I'd only get brand new magazines for a carry gun. NFW would I want to trust old magazines, that are of questionable reliability, in a self defense scenario.

BTW, all the reduced capacity 2011/DS1911 magazines I've seen listed are MORE than the standard capacity ones. On the AGW site, the 29 round magazine is the same cost as the 10 round models. 16-23 round (9mm) are less. [rofl2] I've seen similar pricing on the Staccato site for magazines.

Personally, I have zero issue with a grip safety. Maybe because all three of my 1911's have them. Build up muscle memory for actuating the thumb safety AFTER you've removed the gun from your holster and you shouldn't have any issue. I would highly advise putting in some serious range time with the pistol BEFORE you think about carrying it. On top of practicing the draw from holster steps.
 
No doubt that newer mags are more reliable. My post was more or less pointing out that not everyone in Mass is limited to 10rds.
 
nin7474 said:
Sorry for the 2011/1911 NEWB question.
But are 2011's(1911) “drop safe” if it doesn't have a Grip Safety and Manual Safety on?
Getting a Atlas Ares for CCW and it only has a Manual Safety.
no Grip Safety
I plan to AIWB it “cocked and locked” and will be my first “SA, Hammer” Carry.
My main gun for current AIWB is a Striker Fire(P365).
Click to expand...
Neither grip safeties nor manual safeties make a 1911 drop safe. Neither the grip safety nor the manual safety prevent the firing pin from moving.

Most 1911s are of a Series 70 design. In this design, there is nothing that keeps the firing pin from moving except the firing pin spring. If you drop a Series 70 onto a hard surface muzzle down, the inertia of the firing pin will want to keep going. If you drop it from a high enough height, that inertia will overcome the resistance of the spring, and the firing pin will hit and ignite the primer, even though the safety is on and the grip safety is not depressed. And it doesn’t take much of a drop to achieve this. Gunsmith Hilton Yam tested this and found 5’ drop muzzle first into concrete was enough to cause a discharge.

The solution for a Series 70 gun is a lighter titanium firing pin (so it has less inertia) and an extra power firing pin retaining spring. This increases the height required for a drop to cause a discharge.

Most 2011s are similar to a Series 70 design.

Series 80 style guns have a firing pin block that prevents the firing pin from moving unless the trigger is pulled to the rear. Later Colts are Series 80. Sig 1911s are Series 80.

Some manufacturers (Kimber and S&W) have built some guns with a Swartz style firing pin block, which is operated by depressing the grip safety. These have proven problematic and I don’t recommend them.

The lack of a grip safety on the Atlas will not make it more prone to fire if it is dropped. It is most likely a Series 70 style action and is not drop safe.

Most of my 1911s are Series 70. I’ve installed titanium firing pins and extra power firing pin retaining springs. I consider them to still not be drop safe. That doesn’t particularly bother me and I carried a 1911 concealed for a number of years. YMMV.
 
Everything @M1911 said above and....I have never even noticed a grip safety on a 1911. I mean, I've known they were there, how they work, but if you get a proper grip, high up into the beavertail, in my experience, you can't even tell whether or not there is grip safety.

As to Series 70 or 80? (with or without a drop safety), while the presence of the drop safety does impact the smoothness of the slide and introduce a mechanical complication, you couldn't pay me to carry a gun without one. In my opinion, the 'bump' of that safety is not material to the performance of the gun while shooting.

The only guns I've ever owned without drop safeties are Ruger Mk x and rifles. (I can't justify the fun old stuff to collect like Mauser C96's and Lugers and Hi-Power's snack on my hand)

But, as M1911 says above, your mileage may vary. My hunch is, from your post, you're on the younger side and, as such, I'm going to guess you're more likely than old farts like me to engage in more vigorous activity out and about 'on the daily'.... This to me suggests you're more likely to end up wishing you had a drop safety than you think you will be.
 
walter62 said:
If you're about to drop 7K on an Atlas, you should consider doing more pre-purchase
research.

Use this tool and substitute a similar size 1911/2011. The one I chose for this
compare is actually *smaller* than an 4.25" barrel

www.handgunhero.com

Sig Sauer P365 vs Dan Wesson TCP size comparison | Handgun Hero

Compare the dimensions and specs of Sig Sauer P365 and Dan Wesson TCP
www.handgunhero.com www.handgunhero.com

My opinion: you're making a bad choice here for a number of reasons. I'd hate
to see you discover that *after* you spend that much.

Take a look at:

Double Stack Handguns - Wilson Combat

Wilson Combat has been the innovator in custom pistols, long guns, and accessories since 1977. Home of the Wilson Combat 1911, EDC X9, WCP320, and more!
wilsoncombat.com wilsoncombat.com

and remember that if you live in Massachusetts, you can only have 10 rounds.
Click to expand...
$7000 for a carry gun?

I think that’s not a great idea.

Carry guns get beat up. I prefer to beat up a $500-$900 gun as opposed to a expensive gourmet gun.
 
@nin7474 Consider the above posts in the following light:

Many of us replying could buy (or have bought) way more than seven grand worth of gun, guns and gun related stuff and we're still suggesting you not do this. This is not a post full of jealous folks short on cash slagging you for wanting and having the resources to buy a nice gun, it's folks trying to help you not spend that much money for this purpose..
 
SIGNES said:
Everything @M1911 said above and....I have never even noticed a grip safety on a 1911. I mean, I've known they were there, how they work, but if you get a proper grip, high up into the beavertail, in my experience, you can't even tell whether or not there is grip safety.
Click to expand...

Everyone grip are different. I hold higher up and push the grip safety up, hard enough that even if it is pinned, the pin will eventually pull out. So I cut all the GS arms off and blend them in the up position.
 
50wt said:
Preban mags are available if he doesnt qualify under an exemption.
Click to expand...
staccato2011.com

10 Round Double Stack 9mm Magazines - Staccato 2011

Our new 2011® Magazine is manufactured out of 410 stainless steel, producing a magazine with longer life, greater strength, and better corrosion resistance. Staccato 2011® magazines are built specifically for all Staccato 2011® style pistols and frames. These Staccato 2011® magazines are...
staccato2011.com staccato2011.com

or use Magblock
www.magazineblocks.com

STI Staccato C2 10/16 Magblock (9mm)

10 round limiter block for STI Staccato 17 round Magazines.
www.magazineblocks.com www.magazineblocks.com
 
SIGNES said:
Everything @M1911 said above and....I have never even noticed a grip safety on a 1911. I mean, I've known they were there, how they work, but if you get a proper grip, high up into the beavertail, in my experience, you can't even tell whether or not there is grip safety.

As to Series 70 or 80? (with or without a drop safety), while the presence of the drop safety does impact the smoothness of the slide and introduce a mechanical complication, you couldn't pay me to carry a gun without one. In my opinion, the 'bump' of that safety is not material to the performance of the gun while shooting.

The only guns I've ever owned without drop safeties are Ruger Mk x and rifles. (I can't justify the fun old stuff to collect like Mauser C96's and Lugers and Hi-Power's snack on my hand)

But, as M1911 says above, your mileage may vary. My hunch is, from your post, you're on the younger side and, as such, I'm going to guess you're more likely than old farts like me to engage in more vigorous activity out and about 'on the daily'.... This to me suggests you're more likely to end up wishing you had a drop safety than you think you will be.
Click to expand...
Late 40's. 50 soon actually.
And no on "engage in more vigorous activity out and about 'on the daily' lol.
 
SIGNES said:
@nin7474 Consider the above posts in the following light:

Many of us replying could buy (or have bought) way more than seven grand worth of gun, guns and gun related stuff and we're still suggesting you not do this. This is not a post full of jealous folks short on cash slagging you for wanting and having the resources to buy a nice gun, it's folks trying to help you not spend that much money for this purpose..
Click to expand...
I get it and i appreciate everyones help and suggestions.
$6500 is not "chump change" and i get it.
I already have a Staccato XC and actually canceled a TTI Pit Viper and decided on the Atlas ARES.
FYI, I'm not showing off or remotely rich.
Overtime has been good and abundant last year so i decided to reward myself.
The ARES order has been placed already and i'm over 90 days in the "Order Process". So NOT getting it is not a option.
If anything, i'll rotate it in my CCW if i don't feel comfortable.
 
Last edited:
walter62 said:
If you're about to drop 7K on an Atlas, you should consider doing more pre-purchase
research.

Use this tool and substitute a similar size 1911/2011. The one I chose for this
compare is actually *smaller* than an 4.25" barrel

www.handgunhero.com

Sig Sauer P365 vs Dan Wesson TCP size comparison | Handgun Hero

Compare the dimensions and specs of Sig Sauer P365 and Dan Wesson TCP
www.handgunhero.com www.handgunhero.com

My opinion: you're making a bad choice here for a number of reasons. I'd hate
to see you discover that *after* you spend that much.

Take a look at:

Double Stack Handguns - Wilson Combat

Wilson Combat has been the innovator in custom pistols, long guns, and accessories since 1977. Home of the Wilson Combat 1911, EDC X9, WCP320, and more!
wilsoncombat.com wilsoncombat.com

and remember that if you live in Massachusetts, you can only have 10
Click to expand...
Some have said a 4.25 Commander size 2011 is comparable to size to a Glock 19.
 
nin7474 said:
I get it and i appreciate everyones help and suggestions.
$6500 is not "chump change" and i get it.
I already have a Staccato XC and actually canceled a TTI Pit Viper and decided on the Atlas ARES.
FYI, I'm not showing off or remotely rich.
Overtime has been good and abundant last year so i decided to reward myself.
The ARES order has been placed already and i'm over 90 days in the "Order Process". So NOT getting it is not a option.
If anything, i'll rotate it in my CCW if i don't feel comfortable.
Click to expand...

Why has it taken 25 posts to the thread to discover it was already purchased months ago?

That piece of knowledge would have changed the entire thread and people's pontifications ;)
 

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