.223 reloading observations

[bhmax16]

Hey everyone, I'm quite new to reloading but wanted to post a couple observations I made on my first few .223 rounds and gain some feedback.

Brass being used is a mixed bag of once fired winchester and lake city (these were both fired out of my Sig 556 previously).

Spec for case neck width of a .223 case is .253". My reloads are averaging (with a 77gr sierra matchking bthp loaded and no crimp) .247" and none are anywhere near .250".

Is this normal? I know with my 45acp the brass shrinks with each firing, and that may be the case with the case neck width in the .223. If this is not the case, however, I would think with the case neck this tight that seating a bullet would be difficult, but I can seat a bullet with only finger pressure on my Lee Classic Cast. I'm assuming seating a bullet is supposed to be much easier than resizing efforts, but correct me if I'm wrong since I am new at this and have not yet developed the "feel."

I cycled some rounds through my Sig 556, some lightly crimped with a Lee FCD, others with no crimp like the one stated above. Even after cycling the same round 3 times cartridge OAL only changed by .002" at the very most, and the majority changed .001" or less. This leads me to believe that perhaps crimping, even though these bullets are 77gr matchkings with a cannelure, may not be necessary? Even so, should I apply a light crimp anyway to ensure uniform case neck tension on the bullet?

I'd appreciate any input on the above 2 observations. I just want to make sure I'm doing everything correctly. Thanks!

 

[DukeInFlorida]

If your necks are sized properly during the full length resizing, you don't need to crimp.... PERIOD!

If you have done any reading here, this statement has been made by most of our experienced reloaders, over and over and over again.

The neck itself is only one aspect of the case that gets longer. The real lengthening happens in the main body of the case. Rather than measure the neck length, you really have to measure the OVERALL length of the cartridge. During full length resizing, the major case body goes through LOTS of stretching. And, again during the firing, the main body of the base gets somewhat longer also.

So, do your full length resize. Then, measure overall length of the brass. More than likely, you will have to (or at least SHOULD ANYWAY!) trim the length.

After sizing, the neck diameter should be smaller than the bullet diameter. That's what keeps the tight grip on the bullet. So, seating the bullet will make the OD of the neck bigger than it was after just sizing.

Make sense?

 

[bhmax16]

I've done plenty of reading here and on other forums (believe me)...and you may have misunderstood me before as I stated I was measuring neck width, not neck length.

The length of my cartridges have already been measured and trimmed (if needed) to 1.750". My concern is not with CAL or OAL, but with the width of the neck being significantly smaller than spec. My belief is this is not a big deal, as it ensures a tighter grip on the bullet anyway (which you pointed out) since the neck diameter is smaller than the bullet diameter. My concern was that even after seating the bullet, the neck diameter was still .247" when spec is .253". I was just looking for assurance that this is no big deal (and can be attributed to shrinking of the brass in that area).

I'm an aspiring engineer, so I often go a bit overboard on measuring dimensions. Thanks for the input

 

[bpm990d]

That .253 is the max dimension on the neck. It's fine that it's smaller. I don't think it's shrinking or thinning out. It's just not made that thick.

B

 

[Fixxah]

I don't crimp any 223/5.56 and have not measured outside neck. Try using same lot from same company and I bet the numbers match a little better.

Are you measuring any new ammo to compare or going by manual specs?

 

[mac1911]

from my new guy perspective and reading and asking.......I am reloading more 30-06 than .223 right now. Heres a quick response from a conversation at the range.

hey steve whats your take on crimping?
Steve: personally unless your shipping your ammo and running all over gods creation getting tossed to and fro, dont bother. Here look at this. When reloading a clip for the garand we showed you to push on the bullet tips or tap the clip on the table to assure they are seated right.
Steve then took a loaded clip of my reloads and gave them a good thump and a very good push on the boolit tips wiggled and pushed.
Steve: Now take those home and compare thosr to your COL you loaded to and see if they moved, if so your dies are not sizeing your neck correctly or you should think about a lee crimp.
Home: measured COL and all but one was unchanged (and where talking.003) this could be a variation in the bullet to maybe? so i assume my case neck tension is good. I also did this test on my 223 reloads and they did not budge.
I reload on a Hornady clasic single stage. One less step is nice.

I quess if you are not sure when you may need your reloads and they are being tossed about roughly crimping maybe a good idea. BUT as many here and else where say and I have come to believe....not needed

 

[DukeInFlorida]

I don't let anyone crash and thump on my reloads!

 

[bhmax16]

I don't let anyone crash and thump on my reloads!

In all seriousness thanks for everybody's responses. Based on various comments I can conclude that the Lee resizing die is doing it's job. If you're familiar with the Sig 556 you know the bolt carrier is huge, and for the bullets to move so little even after each one was cycled 3 times, tells me my case neck tension is more than adequate. I won't be crimping my .223, but I will continue to apply a very light taper crimp to the 45acp for my 1911 only to iron out the small bell applied prior to bullet seating.

 

[mac1911]

duke, Steve is a very informative seasoned guy, He did not do anything out of the norm as far as seating the cartridges into the clip of the garand. He is a man of on hands visual reference. He did not exactly pound nails with them.... Really.

Would you expect a bullet to resist a good push? would you expect a uncrimped 30-06 bullet to not set back if loaded in a clip and thuded against a wooden talble or such by the base of the clip ?

What would be a good TEST to assure your tension is correct , 25ftlbs for 1min ?

I was to lazy to get my bullet puller out after I relized (missed in the inspection) the neck had a so so slight crack starting in the neck, even that was a tough pull with the pliers.

from sierra handbook, which confirms alot of what duke and many say.

additional accessories) to perform other tasks, such as neck-turning. This may be an advantage if the unit is used for other firearms (such as varmint guns), but we can’t recommend neck-turning for Service Rifles.

Neck Tension

When we stop to consider the vigorous (read, downright violent) chambering cycle a loaded round endures in a Service Rifle, it becomes pretty clear it suffers abuse that would never happen in a bolt-action. This is simply the nature of the beast. It needs to be dealt with since there is no way around it.

There are two distinctly different forces that need to be considered: those that force the bullet deeper into the case, and those that pull it out of the case. When the round is stripped from the magazine and launched up the feed ramp, any resistance encountered by the bullet risks having it set back deeper into the case. Due to the abrupt stop the cartridge makes when the shoulder slams to a halt against the chamber, inertia dictates that the bullet will continue to move forward. This is exactly the same principle a kinetic bullet puller operates on, and it works within a chamber as well. Some years ago, we decided to examine this phenomenon more closely. During tests here at Sierra’s range, we chambered a variety of factory Match ammunition in an AR-15 rifle. This ammunition was from one of the most popular brands in use today, loaded with Sierra’s 69 grain MatchKing bullet. To conduct the test, we chambered individual rounds by inserting them into the magazines and manually releasing the bolt. We then repeated the tests by loading two rounds into the magazine, chambering and firing the first, and then extracting and measuring the second round. This eliminated any potential variation caused by the difference between a bolt that had been released from an open position (first round in the magazine) and those subsequent rounds that were chambered by the normal semi-automatic operation of the rifle. Measuring the rounds before chambering and then re-measuring after they were carefully extracted resulted in an average increase of three thousandths (0.003") of forward bullet movement. Some individual rounds showed up to seven thousandths (0.007") movement. Please bear in mind that these results were with factory ammunition, normally having a higher bullet pull than handloaded ammunition.

To counteract this tendency, the semi-auto shooter is left with basically two options: applying a crimp or increasing neck tension. The first option, crimping, brings up some other issues that can be troublesome. In general, crimping degrades accuracy. Most match bullets are not cannelured (which also seriously damages accuracy potential), a requirement for correct application of most crimps. Still, there are taper crimp dies available from most of the major manufacturers. Lee offers their “Factory Crimp” die as an alternative, which seems to be one of the better options for those bullets without a cannelure. That having been said, crimping is still, at best, an occasionally necessary evil. Avoid it if at all possible.

The other—and in our opinion, better—option is increased neck tension. This, in turn, leaves us with two more options depending on what type of equipment you’re using. The object of either is simply a tighter grip on the bullet. Using conventional sizing dies, (i.e., those utilizing an expander ball) this is accomplished by reducing the diameter of the ball itself. This can be done by chucking the expander/decapping rod into a drill and turning it down slightly with fine emery cloth or a stone. The goal here is to decrease the diameter two or three thousandths (0.002" to 0.003") under bullet diameter. This is a trial and error process, and must be done slowly. The end result is an expander ball that opens the case neck up somewhat less than the as-issued item. This, in turn, increases the grip of the case neck on the seated bullet.

A better alternative to achieve the same effect is the use of a bushing die, such as those from Redding Reloading. This is by far the best solution, not just for Service Rifles, but for a broad range of reloading applications. The basis for this system is a fairly conventional sizing die, at least where the body and shoulder of the case is concerned. In the neck area, however, the die is fitted with a removable bushing. Available in .001" increments (as measured at the inside diameter of the bushing), they can be matched with a specific batch of brass to provide optimum neck tension. This tension can be increased or decreased by simply moving up or down in bushing size. The one drawback to this system, if it can be called a drawback, is the absolute necessity of sorting cases and loading them in batches. This, of course, is how virtually all loading should be done anyway.

Bullet Seating

 

[Jose]

I will crimp any rifle cartridge reload that will be used for anything other than precision shooting. Every round I make for my AR carbine gets crimped at the cannelure.

The absolutes against case mouth crimping of rifle cartridges that some here proclaim are simply not so.

 

[noddaduma]

I agree, Jose. Crimping also allows a slightly greater and more consistent build-up of pressure prior to bullet making jump to the lands. This is important especially in a military rifle with an extra long free bore. Not that everyone shoots milsurps. If you do, to get best accuracy you either seat the bullet to .020-.030 behind the grooves..which may mean the bullet barely seats in the case... or you crimp. The Lee Factory Crimp die is generally considered the best crimping die for this application.

It makes intuitive sense and makes sense from what I've seen on other propelled weapon systems design work.

-Jason

 

[mac1911]

I think this is one of those never ending debates. I came across a article that I will try to link or copy word for word that is all for crimping