2nd Amendment discussion in Sociology class pissed me off today

[bhmax16]

So I had my second Sociology class today of this semester, and near the end of the class the professor was demonstrating a particular area of sociology by having us all estimate certain numbers of deaths for homicides, motor vehicle accidents, etc... After performing this exercise he randomly brought up the 2nd Amendment (since we were talking about statistics) and basically said "it's your own business if you want to own a gun...but here's the statistics...one who has firearms in their household is 8 times more likely to harm somebody they love than a potential 'bad guy' they may or may not ever come into contact with." He based this statistic on a husband getting angry with his wife and shooting her out of blatant anger, a child finding a firearm and accidentally discharging it, killing themselves or a friend, etc... I think this is absolute bullshit...Are there really that many people out there who are this negligent? And especially with the storage laws in Mass the child part would certainly almost never apply unless the firearm wasn't stored correctly. After this he went off on a Bush rant and how unintelligent he is...so in the end I tried to brush it off and just tell myself he was another typical moonbat professor. But it still bothers me... I think in I'm going to wear one of my favorite Smith and Wesson t-shirts to the next class on Tuesday in protest!

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

So I had my second Sociology class today of this semester, and near the end of the class the professor was demonstrating a particular area of sociology by having us all estimate certain numbers of deaths for homicides, motor vehicle accidents, etc... After performing this exercise he randomly brought up the 2nd Amendment (since we were talking about statistics) and basically said "it's your own business if you want to own a gun...but here's the statistics...one who has firearms in their household is 8 times more likely to harm somebody they love than a potential 'bad guy' they may or may not ever come into contact with." He based this statistic on a husband getting angry with his wife and shooting her out of blatant anger, a child finding a firearm and accidentally discharging it, killing themselves or a friend, etc... I think this is absolute bullshit...Are there really that many people out there who are this negligent? And especially with the storage laws in Mass the child part would certainly almost never apply unless the firearm wasn't stored correctly. After this he went off on a Bush rant and how unintelligent he is...so in the end I tried to brush it off and just tell myself he was another typical moonbat professor. But it still bothers me... I think in I'm going to wear one of my favorite Smith and Wesson t-shirts to the next class on Tuesday in protest!

I would mention it to administrative staff. Professors are not supposed to push their own political agenda. The 2a thing is weak, but bashing Bush and such is usually not among the allowed class discussion.

 

[Palladin]

Reasearch John Lott's study and blow this guy out of the water!!
He's sheep.

http://www.johnlott.org/

another example of the liberal scholars in this country.

 

[Midnight412]

The thing that is so great about moonbats is that if you present them with any gun fact, or that you are in favor of guns, they are usually the ones that get upset and angry or try to elevate any civil conversation into a shouting match. Good luck wearing the shirt to class. Just make sure it doesn't have anything on it that actually looks like a gun or you might freek someone out

 

[bhmax16]

He wasn't really pushing a political agenda per say...he mentioned Bush having questionable intelligence, but he caught himself and said "but we won't get into that." So he more or less gave an opinion but didn't supply any factual evidence to back that statement up.

However he said "you can think what you want about guns but what I'm telling you are the facts, so they're not debatable." I'm not one to go out of my way to try to blow the professor out of the water (hell it was my second class with him, I don't want him to hate me ALREADY!) However, I'm hoping the discussion comes up in class again in a setting where other students have the opportunity to give their input, since I'm interested on my fellow students' views as well. Not to mention I'd love to write a paper on my views for this particular class, so as the semester goes on I will pray for that opportunity. In the meantime it was something I just really had to get off my chest to fellow NESers!

 

[BossHarley]

The statistics are troubling - there are way too many accidental shootings, as well as domestic violence etc. This isn't really an argument against gun ownership in my opinion as police officers are frequently killed by their own firearms - and who thinks cops shouldnt be armed.
The political discussion was unprofessional, and I would be sure to put in a class review if you have those (we did when I was in schiool - a form we all filled out to rate the class/professor).

Unfortunately sometimes it is best to bite your tongue and not get into a discussion that might get heated....

 

[HTRN]

The thing that is so great about moonbats is that if you present them with any gun fact, or that you are in favor of guns, they are usually the ones that get upset and angry or try to elevate any civil conversation into a shouting match. Good luck wearing the shirt to class. Just make sure it doesn't have anything on it that actually looks like a gun or you might freek someone out

Guns not to be singled out here. Any time I disagree with my moonbat brother he gets inflamed, and physically agitated.
If one is ignorant, sometimes the only defence that they know is rage.

 

[oldguy]

Leave the gun shirt home and wear a hope + change shirt if you want a good grade.
The teacher is a hopeless nut and may make an example of you if make a stand.

 

[GunGrey]

Take a step back for a second this is a sociology class with a liberal teacher, did you expect his view to be different. I took Sociology last year at HCC, you know what I did for the whole sesmester. I slept threw the class because it was a waste of time. Also I passed with an A, then again it was at community college. I really wouldn't get too pissed and shoot your mouth off, trust me I know what can come of that. But when these things happen use them as opportunitys to inform or enlighten the sheeple. If I were you I would wear the Smith and Wessons shirt and probably wear other Pro gun shirts. But watch out this teacher could be a dick and screw you for the class. Some times its better to pick and choose your battles.

 

[AppleSeeds]

You should consider dropping the class if you can do so without penalty.

 

[bhmax16]

Haha well he definitely looks at shirts...had my USMC sweatshirt on today which he noticed immediately. Asked if I was in the Marines which I promptly responded that I'm not, but fully support all our troops and that my uncle served as a recon sniper. But being that he's that observant I can't wait to wear the Smith and Wesson shirt to class. It doesn't depict a firearm on it in anyway, but I'm sure EVERYBODY whether a gun nut or not knows Smith and Wesson which is why I'm choosing that shirt vs. a Sig or the like. It's one of the M&P shirts so it says Military and Police under Smith and Wesson...basically I just want to let him know in the subtlest way I can that I am a law abiding firearm owner. He seems to like me so far so maybe if I present some good ideas in the class throughout the semester I can at least change his thoughts about the negligence of others. If not then at least I tried! Besides this small incident he seems like a good professor so far and I don't think he'd be unethical in anyway to penalize me for standing up for my beliefs, and if he did, all it takes is a visit to the Dean to clear things up real fast!

 

[EddieCoyle]

...but here's the statistics...one who has firearms in their household is 8 times more likely to harm somebody they love than a potential 'bad guy' they may or may not ever come into contact with."

OK.. How many more times is a non-gun owner likely to harm somebody they love than a potential 'bad guy' they may or may not ever come into contact with? I bet it's at least 8.

Everybody has somebody they 'love', and lots of people harm them. Not too many people come into contact with a 'bad guy'.

Let me put it another way...

Statistics show that liberal professors are 20 times more likely to beat up their wives than they are to beat up a bad guy that they may never come into contact with. The ones that own guns are only 8 times more likely.

 

[bhmax16]

Take a step back for a second this is a sociology class with a liberal teacher, did you expect his view to be different. I took Sociology last year at HCC, you know what I did for the whole sesmester. I slept threw the class because it was a waste of time. Also I passed with an A, then again it was at community college. I really wouldn't get too pissed and shoot your mouth off, trust me I know what can come of that. But when these things happen use them as opportunitys to inform or enlighten the sheeple. If I were you I would wear the Smith and Wessons shirt and probably wear other Pro gun shirts. But watch out this teacher could be a dick and screw you for the class. Some times its better to pick and choose your battles.

Dude I'm at HCC taking mine! Who was your professor? PM me if you don't want to post it

 

[BeerBaron]

Well in Massachusetts, there seems to be more of "them" than there are of "us." But it seems, especially evident with the past election, that there is a growing conservative population in Mass. The problem with most college professors is that they've only ever been in school their whole life. They went to school, and ended up teaching in school. School is not the real world. These people get all their information from books, but not from real world experience. When I was in college a few years ago, there was one professor that gave my class the best advice ever one day and it has stuck with me ever since. She said, "Always be skeptical. Just because a College Professor says something doesn't make it true. Always form your own conclusions."

 

[HTRN]

Excellent post EC.

 

[bhmax16]

EddieCoyle and BeerBaron...awesome points After a couple more responses I'm debating if I should print this thread out, put it in an envelope, and mail it to the professor as a summer present (after I have received my final grade of course) haha

 

[GunGrey]

Hey I had Professor Leavitt, I can safely say I did not learn a single dam thing during that class. Actually when I had him he got into a conversation about how his house was broken into and how violated he felt in his own home. He also liked to go off on tagents iit was pretty funny. me and some other students would get him going on the redsox and he would just keep going and going. I never heard him talk about guns at all when I had him. He seemed all right a little far to the left but it doesnt make him a bad guy. I also dont go to HCC anymore but when I was there I had some great teachers and some bad ones, it was really hit or miss.

 

[CRSIII]

OK.. How many more times is a non-gun owner likely to harm somebody they love than a potential 'bad guy' they may or may not ever come into contact with? I bet it's at least 8.

Everybody has somebody they 'love', and lots of people harm them. Not too many people come into contact with a 'bad guy'.

Let me put it another way...

Statistics show that liberal professors are 20 times more likely to beat up their wives than they are to beat up a bad guy that they may never come into contact with. The ones that own guns are only 8 times more likely.

Thats worth the 19 bucks right there!

Next time I see you, beers on me.

 

[Scrivener]

He's quoting a bogus study, using cherry-picked counties and an unbalanced sample.

I believe the Lott cite will dispose of the professor's statistics - and in a manner he has to acknowledge.

 

[upStomp]

Yeah, EC nailed that one. I've always looked for the perfect way to counter that obviously BS stat. Now I've got it.

 

[bhmax16]

Hey I had Professor Leavitt, I can safely say I did not learn a single dam thing during that class. Actually when I had him he got into a conversation about how his house was broken into and how violated he felt in his own home. He also liked to go off on tagents iit was pretty funny. me and some other students would get him going on the redsox and he would just keep going and going. I never heard him talk about guns at all when I had him. He seemed all right a little far to the left but it doesnt make him a bad guy. I also dont go to HCC anymore but when I was there I had some great teachers and some bad ones, it was really hit or miss.

Yeah it's a hit or miss with me as well. I have Professor O'Connor...he's actually a pretty funny guy so far besides this one issue. I have noticed the same as well that the Profs are a hit or miss, but it's like that at any institution no matter where you go. Only reason I'm at HCC is I've been out of college for 4 years now, so wanted somewhere local and cheap to attend while returning after my brain has been on rest for so many years. Prob transferring to western new england in a year if all goes as planned

And Scrivener thanks for the additional advice. The statistics he gave did not seem right to me at all, and it did take quite a bit of effort to keep my mouth shut. I mean I hear more stories in the media everyday about a perp assaulting somebody with a firearm than a tragedy of a husband killing his wife or the like. Yes we do have the incident that occurred over at the Westfield club with the 8 year old boy but cases like that are so rare and I think the only reason that particular story has gotten the exposure that it has is only because it was a fully automatic firearm. I think if it happened to be a 38 special revolver or the like it would much more likely be attributed to a pure tragedy rather than negligence on the father and club's part. Maybe I'm wrong and that's just what I want to think, who really knows?

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

Well in Massachusetts, there seems to be more of "them" than there are of "us." But it seems, especially evident with the past election, that there is a growing conservative population in Mass. The problem with most college professors is that they've only ever been in school their whole life. They went to school, and ended up teaching in school. School is not the real world. These people get all their information from books, but not from real world experience. When I was in college a few years ago, there was one professor that gave my class the best advice ever one day and it has stuck with me ever since. She said, "Always be skeptical. Just because a College Professor says something doesn't make it true. Always form your own conclusions."

Yes, it's something called critical thinking and it's rarely taught in it's truest form anymore.

Bear in mind that those who can't do TEACH!

 

[GunGrey]

Yea I hear yea thats the same reason why I went to HCC. Saved me almost 30 grand in college fees and I got the same quality in teaching for prereq classes as im getting at WSC, spent 2 years there and now im finishin up my last 2 years here in westfield. Also all the prereq classes are all the same, plus I had an opportunity to get classes not available here.

 

[BeerBaron]

Liberals don't want independent thinkers. They don't want independent anything, the exact opposite actually. They love dependents.

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

Here is a great place to look for more real gun stats. They all have citations. I noticed a few weren't the most reliable sources. However, it is much closer to the mark than the liberal BS. Scrivener....if you can give these a gander and let us know your thoughts, I'm sure everyone would appreciate it.

http://gunfacts.info/

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

Liberals don't want independent thinkers. They don't want independent anything, the exact opposite actually. They love dependents.

The sad thing was getting rid of classical education in public schools. This starts teens down the road of critical thinking. With this education, they are prepared to ask the right questions when they get to college. When my wife and I start a family, classical education will be a must.

 

[LTCRN]

You should consider dropping the class if you can do so without penalty.

The most intelligent solution to the problem Appleseeds- +1 to you. I too would switch to another professor ASAP

 

[Airwolfe1]

He is obviously quoting the misguided and flawed "So Called Statistics" the Brady Campaign likes to spew out. Make sure you go to http://www.gunfacts.info/ and download your free copy of Gun Facts 5.1 This publication debunks all of the very common Brady Stats and references actual publications, studies and facts so there is concrete evidence supporting our side. On page 25 of Gun Facts you will find:

Myth: Handguns are 43 times more likely to kill a family member than a criminal

Fact: Of the 43 deaths reported in this flawed study, 37 (86%) were suicides. Other deaths involved criminal activity between the family members (drug deals gone bad).

Fact: Of the remaining deaths, the deceased family members include felons, drug dealers, violent spouses committing assault, and other criminals.

Fact: Only 0.1% (1 in a thousand) of the defensive uses of guns results in the death of the predator. This means you are much more likely to prevent a crime without bloodshed than hurt a family member.

 

[owningpeoplesince1984]

Keep us posted if you end up wearing the shirt.......

 

[SecondAmdFirst]

He is obviously quoting the misguided and flawed "So Called Statistics" the Brady Campaign likes to spew out. Make sure you go to http://www.gunfacts.info/ and download your free copy of Gun Facts 5.1 This publication debunks all of the very common Brady Stats and references actual publications, studies and facts so there is concrete evidence supporting our side. On page 25 of Gun Facts you will find:

Yeah, you can't count suicides because they will almost certainly find another method. If that was the goal of gun control, we would also have to outlaw rope, buildings over 1 story tall, all electrical devices, natural gas, razor blades, etc, etc, etc.

Deaths between family members involved in criminal activity are doing a public service

Don't forget one of my favorite statistics.....police officers are 5 times more likely to kill an innocent civilian in a shooting than a lawful, gun owning citizen (2% civilian shootings vs. 11% for LEOs)